Commando Archive
Thread: Helios: Please Address a Commando Concern over the new Weapon Availability Change
Helios_SOE wrote:
Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.
riotcontrol wrote:
At least make it so there is a distinct difference between melee and ranged weapons (so a level 60 Master Swordsman/Master Fencer doesn't know how to use high-end/mid-range rifles, for example, but he can use high-end/mid-range pikes or knucklers)...
There already is, it's called ranged and melee specials/mods.
Yes, a level 60 brawler could pick up a level 60 rifle, but they could use no specials for that rifle and would be stuck to using base damage. They would also have 0 speed and 0 accuracy while wielding that ranged weapon.
BTW Helios, thanks for the clarification, sounds very good
ThetaDaAriga wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.
I hope there are no plans to tie the Massassi Knuckler to the Commando class. Iam as a TKA have since the start of SWG the absolutelystupid looking Vibro Knuckler as the only usable Weapon. And after the CU there is the Blasterfist which does nice damage but looks absolutely silly and the Razor Knuckler that only the rich and famous will get from the DWB. The only cool and easy obtainable knuckler will be the Massassi.
Personally that would be fine for me not to specially tie the Massassi Knucklers to Commando...but why would a TKA want to use them...while the VK's may not look as cool, or for that matter any other TK weapon, as the Massassi Knuckler (matter of opinion of course), the Massassi Knucklers are WEAKER then any TK weapon...you'd be trading looks for damage capability...a foolish trade...
Because Commando requires the Unarmed tree, any TK wanting to use them, would find, even at Novice TK, that they have better, higher damage choices then the Massassi Knuckler...
DocSavag wrote:
I guess the problem I have with it is that currently you can level one profession better than the next guy because you have a higher level from another profession so you get a better weapon than he does. I am struggling to level rifle after the weapon I used the night before last got removed from my level by this change. Someone who invests a few boxes into pistols will be using the E-11 before I will.. Thats messed up. Its also messed up that my level 14 carbine does more damage using sniper shot than my level 14 spraystick. (And the fact that the first novice level rifle is a freaking sprakstick is another whole topic)
I understand this isn't the final list but there are so many issues with this idea.
riotcontrol wrote:
At least make it so there is a distinct difference between melee and ranged weapons (so a level 60 Master Swordsman/Master Fencer doesn't know how to use high-end/mid-range rifles, for example, but he can use high-end/mid-range pikes or knucklers)...
I understand your concern, but it just won't work. Your solution only perpetuates the problem that had the devs change the cert system in the first place. If I am a Fencer/Rifleman, I will always be stuck at a higher level using under-powered weapons. Meanwhile, if I'm a Doc/Rifleman, I'll get full synergy? Or should Doc/Rifleman not be synergistic? How abut Ranger/Pike? What about Fencer/creature handler?
As a Doc, I'm glad to see this. Poor Doctors get combat levels without any weapons. A master doctor would start on a new melee/ranged profession at a high level, but only able to use CDEFS. Now, Docs can use appropriate weapons to a full combat class, but don't get any good specials. Rangers get to use better rifles. So do creature handlers.
Helios_SOE wrote:
garvin wrote:
This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.
*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?
*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.
Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM
Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.
Message Edited by nefarious2 on 04-14-2005 02:34 PM
Once the list is final, is it going to be posted? I hope it is, because the skill box requirements (if there are any forthe weapons i want to use) will obiouslybe a big factor in what profession i decide to go with.
Helios_SOE wrote:
Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.
gera wrote:
What's the point of having certified for a weapon then Helios?
Let's say I'm Fencer, what will prevent me to use T21 which was master rifleman weapon to use it.. Where was riflemen's sin in that thing ?
So also Jedi can use Power Hammer ?
Message Edited by gera on 04-14-2005 10:33 AM
Commando weapons will be Skill box + combat level.
So if the particle beam cannon is x2xx and lvl 22. Does that mean if im x2xx and lvl 19 i cant use it?
If so then that will p** me off so much!
I have defended the CU so far... but even this is a step too far to defend!
JacobHiggins wrote:
You guys know how Bounty Hunters feel now, it seems like there slowly dismantling our profession as well, for a LONG LONG TIME NOW. We must team together!
I love the BH community and I feel for the Profession...but it's not the same thing at all...
By leveling up high enough to gain a BH weapon (without taking any of BH) I can't go and hunt Jedi...I can't do any of the BH specials...I can't even use BH tracking or bomb droids...the BH "role" is still intact...
On the otherhand, if someone could level up and gain access to our Commando weapons, they'd be able to take any special and convert it into an AOE attack and also add a DoT...They'd be capable of being the same "Heavy Weapon Specialists" as we are, the only difference is they'd have slightly less accuracy and speed...They'd have taken our "role"...That's a huge difference.
That's why Commando, over all other professions, needs to make sure the majority, if not all, of our weapons are box restricted...Our weapons are our Role...Our weapons are what make Commandos unique...other professions have their weapons, their specials, as well as their other "abilities" to make them unique.
The good news is that Helios revealed that other high level weapons in other professions will be box restricted as well...And hopefully this change won't hurt BH's...Personally, when it comes to BH's and Commandos (as well as others), I'm more concerned about the recent Respec news (novice points for novice points and elite for elite), as it will hurt all those professions who lost pre-reqs via the CU (but that's a discussion for another thread).
Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 01:12 PM
Message Edited by humanteddybear2 on 04-14-2005 04:14 PM
garvin wrote:
Ordo-Malleus wrote:
garvin wrote:
ThetaDaAriga wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.
I hope there are no plans to tie the Massassi Knuckler to the Commando class. Iam as a TKA have since the start of SWG the absolutelystupid looking Vibro Knuckler as the only usable Weapon. And after the CU there is the Blasterfist which does nice damage but looks absolutely silly and the Razor Knuckler that only the rich and famous will get from the DWB. The only cool and easy obtainable knuckler will be the Massassi.
Personally that would be fine for me not to specially tie the Massassi Knucklers to Commando...but why would a TKA want to use them...while the VK's may not look as cool, or for that matter any other TK weapon, as the Massassi Knuckler (matter of opinion of course), the Massassi Knucklers are WEAKER then any TK weapon...you'd be trading looks for damage capability...a foolish trade...
Because Commando requires the Unarmed tree, any TK wanting to use them, would find, even at Novice TK, that they have better, higher damage choices then the Massassi Knuckler...
anyone want to explain then why the heck would we want to use them for commando TK??? if its weaker than any TK weapon why do we have it?????
Here is why I think we have it (if a bigfix is made)...
Currently Pre-CU, we have3 main non-consumable weapons that Novice Commandos can use to get Heavy Weapon XP...the FT, the HAR and the LP...Post-CU, the FT and the HAR are being moved to higher levels in our trees...this would just leave us with the LP to do all our Heavy Weapon grinding with...hence...enter the Massassi Knucklers...This gives us a weapon that can not only use the Unarmed tree, but also uses any other Melee specials someone might have picked up...The problem is, currently, the Massassi Knucklers are giving 1H xp (which most of us believe is a huge bug)...
Gaining TK to get the more powerfer VK's will not give a Commando Heavy Weapon XP....The Massassi Knucklers are put into the Novice Commando box because they are MEANT to be a novice Commando Weapon, which they would be if they gave Heavy Weapon XP...If someone Mastered TK (or any Melee Profession for that matter) before hitting Novice Commando, they'd likely want to use the Massassi Knucklers over all other weapons available to them as (if it get's the fix) would help them to grind Heavy Weapon XP at a much faster rate (by using their more powerful Melee specials WITH the Massassi Knucklers).
It's all about getting the Heavy Weapon XP...which is why the Knucklers need to be fixed (do you think I've dropped that hint enough for a red name to see?
)
lol lets hope so
Theres now LOTS of weaponry available via the CU, and having a set one weapon (like a standard bowcaster) in one set skillbox...IS restrictive. The CU is about flexibility. Thus now we see some weapons that all can use (although not as great as the respective profession)...as well as more advanced versions of certain weaponry.
More flexibility = good.
Now...does that mean a T-21 rifle, or a DE-10 pistol will be certed to any CL 54 template? No...Iconic weapons that give a profession their identity will have CL + Skill box requirements. Some even have racial requirements: Helios mentioned in another thread, currently the bowcaster will have a racial requirement as well...whether or not ALL the versions, is still to be revealed
Regardless...every profession will undoutedly be having some form of Iconic weaponry. I believe it could very well be both iconic to star wars, and quite a few high level guns that constitute a profession now, Pre-CU (ie T-21 to rifleman, Scatterpistol to BH, DE-10 to pistoleer, etc).It perfectly ties in with the notion of every range profession attaining general range/melee mods...
Now...since All commando weaponry will be tied to our skill boxes...I do hope that means the PR too...and if so...hvy weapon mods (otherwise, let it be free cert)
