Commando Archive
Thread: Commandos: What are your top 5 issues?
Message Edited by tacwraith on 02-10-2004 02:14 PM
TH wrote "I disagree that the profession is crippled or broken - - I play a commando and I paid very close attention to the DoT changes on Test Center because I know how important it is."
With all due respect you better create new characters and "experience" them. I would guess that 90% if not more of professions would hope that you would pay very close attention to their issues. Anyone and I mean anyone can collate lists and pass them on but until you experience the problems first hand you cannot appreciate how much of a game breaker it can be.
Buin
Lowca
But Thunderheart.
How can you justify, a DoT nerf to the commando flamethrower, wich is the ONLY gun that works for a commando, that do not cost 1000-2000 per shot(and misses alot..), that does not require you to take up another profession to get specials and learn to use well, that is not a mini flamer painted in molasses, that does not have a blast radius the same as the "best accuracy" range ?
How can you justify, a commando spending the second most amount of SP on a profession, and end up being now, after this patch..having the lowest DPS of all the combat professions in the game, even the uber "drop your weapon, and you sure aint going to hit the ground" pikeman?
How can you nerf the only thing we have, that works, while Combat medics, whos a support proffession, who has nastier DoT's than us, and can toss their "nades" further than us, and those do not hit yourself, or weight a ton to toss..And can turn a big battle..as it can affect 20-50+++ people as it hits all within blast range..while ours..dont even hit.."work as intended"?
How can you nerf, but not fix something so at least we get something back as a patch on the wound?
We are the only combat proffession, that has weapons that Weaponsmiths avoid making, as they are the most time consuming weapons to make, and those weapons are consumables, that you will miss, at master 5 out of 10 shot of, at optimum range at a non moving target with more than 50 ranged defense. And those weapons cost 20k-75k for 30 shots.
We are the only combat profession, who has a gun, we do not get any specials to use exept marksman skills, and have to go outside our profession to be good with it. Thats like asking a Rifleman, to do Carbineer, to gain the "elite" specials for his T21, and a Carbineer go Pistoleer to gain "elite specials" for his Elite Carbine. But we spent almost double the SP to be "told" so...So we don't have much SP leftover, to do so.
We are the only combat proffession who keeps getting nerfed....And no fixes.
And all you say, "wait for the combat revamp"...But TH..Why are we to live in agony and pain, to wait for something we know very little about?
TH, I'm a MCommando/TKA......I'm like 0-1-2-2 TKA...and I allready outdamage the damage I can do as a commando..burn included....And it costs me so little credits in doing so..compared to commando "miss'alot" consumables.
Thunderheart wrote:
The big challenge is that we are reaching a painful phase in the combat balance. As the devs alter the various sub-systems, combat will change and grow more difficult, but when the HAM changes go live, it will play like a different game.
Im eagerly awaiting for when they go to Test Center. I'll let you folks know ahead of time and post some In-Test Threads.
I think that "crippled" and "broke" are ways of saying that there's a severe lack of variety being a commando. How many different ways can you burn something? I use PB cannons sometimes just to add some color, rockets on groups of players, a blaster for panic shot and lowblow (yes, i have some smuggler), but like the rest of the folks who post on the board I burn, burn , burn, and then burn some more. The HAR's particle effect isn't even neat enough to be worth using over the thrower no matter how bored you are of burning things.
I'd have to agree with players who say it's broken. Not weak, or underpowered, but there are things that should have been fixed before release.
Othersuggestions for the top5 list-
I'd love to see flamesingle2 become a master level skill. It gives us all a bad rep when that MCH with a kimo or rancor can also burn things for as much damage as we can. I used more skill points in commando, i should do more damage. Situational things like flamecones don't really count. "Nerf commandos!" wouldn't be a battle cry on every other profession's board if every other player you met hadn't dabbled enough to get flame box 4.
Message Edited by Krayvex on 02-10-2004 02:31 PM
I disagree that the profession is crippled or broken - - I play a commando and I paid very close attention to the DoT changes on Test Center because I know how important it is. The damage just shifts from the DoT to the weapon which means you have to get into combat and fight instead of DoT and kite and thats a good thing.
If you play commando then you know about our restictions when using the FT...you also know about our severe lack of defense mods (which is about to get worse when cross profession defense stacking is removed)...we still have to get within 16m to use our RANGED special, yet we have weaker defenses then elite professions that have a 64m range on their specials...If it looks like a Duck...acts like a Duck...but barks...I'd say it's broken...it's a bad thing...
Try fighting someone next to a river with just the FT...or fight on Tatooine against a Pistoleer, Smuggler, or even a BH...let them kite you from a ranged distance...these are the tests you should be running to see our issues and how crippled we are PvP.
As far as the specifics of all the changes, its because there are different systems on different data tables. Each data table is huge and to change all of the data onany onetable takes a month or so. The devs (two hard working devs actually)are making all the changes so that all the balances have a fun and fair relationship with each other. It just isnt going to happen overnight, though they are working to get it done ASAP.
I'm excited to see the changes and Im happy to have been able to experience the HAM system as it was and I can't wait to try the next stage. Im excited because its a new type of combat mechanic (the HAM bars that is) thats not in other games. Personally, the way the old HAM system worked was very mathematically elegant but was hard to balance in terms of game play. I like to see things like this evolve - it keeps things fresh.
Is the new HAM system going to dramtically protect us from Melee attacks or from being kited? Will we get new specials in the Combat Balance that helps us with ranged kiters...because with all the changes coming in (when you examine the big picture of new foods, no stacking, etc) we are both broken fighting against Melee and Ranged Opponents...
Please tell us what scenerios you have tested...who have you fought against...how did you win? Did you fight a ranged opponent? How did you get past the kiting? Did you fight a TKA? How did you get use any of your specials while lying on your back? Or did you just face off against NPCs and other Commandos like you stated before?
Well said KRAYVEX !
I agree.. people mastering other professions shouldn't have a commando's best offensive attack period.
I'm also a master commando and the point of using your skill points is making a dedication to the profession whether it be for defensive or in this case offensive bonuses.
I hope THunderheart see's this post as well as my others ..
We already get beat up enough by specials from other professions.. and poison is the worst right next to continually being knocked down while you lay there helplessly and die.
Thunderheart wrote:
I disagree that the profession is crippled or broken - - I play a commando and I paid very close attention to the DoT changes on Test Center because I know how important it is. The damage just shifts from the DoT to the weapon which means you have to get into combat and fight instead of DoT and kite and thats a good thing.
#1) 3 of our trees are broken. If you play a commando you have to acknowledge that commando = more than just a flamethrower, and that the profession is 3/4broken. I don't care how much attention you say you paid to our dot, that doesn't change the fact that the HAR, grenades, and rocket launchers are borked. Please don't insult us by saying otherwise.
#2) So if you are nerfing the dot, but not increasing the regular damage of the flamethrower....how is there any "shift?""Shift" implies that you are moving something from one area to another. Wouldn't nerfing the dot, without increasing actual damage,just be a plain ol' vanilla nerf?
Here is the commando's point: Unless you are going to increase our actual damage (non-dot) in the upcoming combat balance, our damage capability OVER TIME (because unless you one shot kill something that is all that matters) is less than other classes that take half the skill points to master. If you divide commando damage by the 9-10 second delay, they do less real damage over time than most other classes. If you kill the dot, you kill commandos only advantage.
Now I know your mantra the last month..."It will be different after the combat balance." You are wrong. Until you commit to increase the actual damage output of the flamethrower (and all of our other weapons), you nerfing the flame dot is devistating to the commando profession.
#3) If you think commandos "run around" because they are kiting things, you need to have your head checked. Only an idiot commando stands toe to toe with a mob while their 10 second delay on specials elapses. Commandos run (I can't believe I even have to tell you this) because they can't do anything for 10 seconds after they fire a special, and because running around makes you harder to hit.
Do some commandos kite things? Sure...just like some pistoleers and carbineers bleed things and hop on their bikes or let their pets take the damage while they work; just like all those riflemen who solo krayt dragons without being touched using conceal shot; just like all those TKAs that dizzy/KD and are never touched by mobs during battle. Every class has this ability...why do you insist on taking it away from commandos?
I don't know why you are sodead set on over-nerfing the commando profession, but I find it disturbing....
I think a flaw in trying out major changes in anything combat based attacks.. or in this case Flame DOT.. is on the test server there just aren't many powerful opponents to try it against.
Sure flame DOT doesnt matter against 3/4 of the NPC/creature world because you can still do 1k dmg every 3 seconds against a huge turtle ! LOL
.. but what about when you're fighting a Master Dr./ Master gunfighter ? We already know the answer to that one... many of us Commando's have had our helmets handed to us fighting even Medic/ Master Gunfighters.
Even worse.. the people who play this game.. who should have the most input don't have the time to make high level characters on the test server. I dedicate what time I have to my live character as most do.
And now here we are hoping there is some compromise.
Thunderheart .. If this MUST happen .. it should be granted rightfully so that DOT is not lowered as much as planned. The game is just starting t get better.. I dont want to be one of the many unhappy people already master's of this profession.
If they are to lower it.. how about not as much. If this forum must be used for begging..
IMPERIALVIPER32 wrote:I'm a master commando and I went with 5 other guys who were high level characters and we got slaughtered by a Krayt Dragon .. If anyone profession, including commando is soloing then they are somehow exploiting.
i couldnt disagree more strongly. this is a statement that is patently false.
all it takes to solo a krayt is time, patience, **edit** good timing, and finding a krayt that isnt being zerged by a bunch of 12yr olds.
the way i have soloed them is by sending in my gurreck, using strafe2, when gurreck is nearly dead i call him heal him with stimc and petstim and start running healing as i go. once he is nearly full send him back. krayt is just about caught up by this time. i go back to spamming strafe2. repeat as needed. gurreck is buffed in secondaries and primaries and i use embolden to further increase ham. i am buffed in music dance and doctor buffs and ham cost with this setup 0. takes about 15 minutes of running and fear to kill it.
sorry but its easy to do if you have a touch of courage and the right tools.
just because YOU cant do it is not proof that it cannot be done.