Commando Archive
Thread: Insulted by the T21
StarNick wrote:
whats really insulting here is the devs refuse to hotfix our weapons yet the T21 was hotfixed like twice..nerfed then unerfed..
Thats EXACTLY the problem I have with all of this. I mean I am glad the riflemen are getting their fix but the problem isnt with them its with the devs. They come in here and tell us they dont hotfix stuff like the launch pistol xp and only do game breaking (show stopping) hotfixes.
So why exactly did the devs make commandos on alot of servers wait more than a month before changing the launcher pistol xp to heavy weapon xp? You must understand the LP was basically the ONLY way for commandos on alot of servers to gain heavy weapon xp. I guess having an ENTIRE profession not being able to advance (sincelaunch)on alot of servers isnt as important as an issue as the T-21. 
Why they didnt just hotfix the launcher pistol more than a month ago so we wouldnt be sitting on our hands I will not know.
Perhaps I should elaborate a bit more on what I was getting at here, although I thought it was fairly clear. The T21 has AP3, which is currently the highest armour piercing level in the game. This makes it an anti-armour weapon, in a class that is extremely simple to obtain, and is, to my perceptions, intended as a specialist anti-infantry class. By making an anti-armour weapon of such effectiveness available long before any Commando skills can even be considered, one quarter of the entire Comando skill set is effectively negated, as no heavy weapons can compete to a T21. I'm not complaining that the weapon is too powerful. I like it being a heinous steel monstrosity. What I'm complaining about is that the weapon reduces, or even eliminates, the need for a Commando class altogether. As far as anti-armour, Commandos will be playing second fiddle to Riflemen. Who wants to invest copious time and skill points to get to a class that is less effective against armour, when there is one that only takes a few days to get, and is also effective against infantry? This is not an issue of game balance or personal choice, it is an issue of role definition. As the game mechanics stand, there is no place at all for a Commando, save as a temporary stopgap while you find a T21-wielding Rifleman, which is a less demanding class to obtain, to down your AT-ST.
Outlaw - You're a dumb**edit**. I'm GLAD you quit Commando, because that would mean we'd have another dumb**edit** trying to get us fixed. Enjoy your time being a dumb**edit** as a riflemen, and please keep your dumb**edit** comments to yourself.
Have a nice day.
To all of you Riflemen posting in regards to this -- I'm glad you're keeping it constructive, but take a minute to look at it from our point of view. I would describe Commandos as heavy weapons experts. Our weapons are supposed to be the be all and end all of armor peircing. What we don't find fair is the fact that, even with us supposed to be heavy troops, none of our weapons peirce armor. Now, maybe that's just us thinking back to our own weapons not working, but either way it's frustrating.
I agree that the T21 should stay how it is, maybe kicked down to AR2. Face it, it's the Barrett rifle of SWG. But that leaves Commandos pretty much useless. Why spend the time trying to grind through heavy weapons when you can just get a weapon that blows them all out of the water at Novice Riflemen? THAT is probably the most frustrating part, we've put all this work in to going through Commando and it turns out that someone can get the same effects (better, even) with half the work.
Most of us are bitter. We want a fix and deserve one. Not many people like the fact that we're the #1 problem child, yet the last to get fixed. Granted, that this MAY mean that there is a fix in sight, but that looks like it's four weeks away.
I'd go with B and C on that list. C will be argued by the fact that not all armor has resists (which is a load of crap), or that those resists will not makeany difference beforea well crafted Flamethrower. We need a bone right now, though.
Don't get mad at Riflemen or the T21. Commando's SUCK for a reason other then what a rifle men can do. Riflemen don't need nerfing. COMMANDO'S need too be vamped. They need range big boom DD's and I also think they should get AE knock down. Also commando's should be able too targetthe health barwith the acid rifle doing a DD with a dot style too follow after.
There is a few classes that need balanceing but don't cry that a class needs too be nerfed just because SOE didn't make your class work HA!
Dhinobill wrote:
I agree that the T21 should stay how it is, maybe kicked down to AR2. Face it, it's the Barrett rifle of SWG. But that leaves Commandos pretty much useless. Why spend the time trying to grind through heavy weapons when you can just get a weapon that blows them all out of the water at Novice Riflemen? THAT is probably the most frustrating part, we've put all this work in to going through Commando and it turns out that someone can get the same effects (better, even) with half the work.
Technically as a commando and rifleman i put in more work therefore why should my T21 (if my server allowed me to have one)get nerfed?
Why we of all people are asking for nerfs to other professions is beyond me. Obviously i'm biased on the rifleman issue but in general a class as broken as ours should be spending our time bitching and moaning about fixes not nerfs.
Commando is the class i wish to be my main, rifleman is the class that actually is my main while i wait for them to fix commando. One day i hope to be able to drop rifleman and do my combat with commando weapons only but even theni still won't be supporting a nerf to rifleman overAP envy.
First off, you guys are majorly gimped right now and it's not fair. As a Squad Leader, BELIEVE ME, I feel your pain. My most useful skill in Squad Leader lets me display a message on the screen. I am well aware of the hurt of your Profession being ganked.
However, Commando is a viable class. Or would be if it worked in the way that it is laid out. So you do have that going for you. Your fixes are mostly a matter of what IS extablished working POORLY or not at all. I imagine that is highly frustrating. Yet in a way, it is a benefit. You don't need to be drawn up from scratch, like Squad Leader or Ranger or Bio Engineer.
Now specificly on the issue of the T-21. Yes, it has AP3. It is the only non-Commando weapon that has AP3. But it is a very heavy weapon with a hideously slow rate of fire and HAM costs that severely limit its use. However, it also has another drawback.
Its damage type is Energy. Energy and Kinetic are the two most common types of damage in the game, and thus the most frequently protected against. One of the best things about Commando, in my opinion, is the variety of alternative damage types that are build into your tree. Blast, Heat, Acid. . . those are powerful attack types that many armors have pathetic protection against. I envy you that.
You also have a variety of weapon types. You aren't limited to only outputting your AP3 via a slow clunker or a gun. I know many of the Commando weapons are slower rather than faster. Neither of us are Pistoleers, heh. But you can pick and choose depending on your situation. Riflemen only get the AP3 within the narrowly defined parameters of the T-21. And many of our attacks are a waste of time to use with the T-21 because of its incredibly slow speed.
I know I will get some flames on this, and there will likely be people complaining that the T-21 is being fixed before the entire Commando tree. I agree that's not really fair, but I also don't think you all realize that Riflemen are incredibly Gimped as well.
Commando will not lose its powerful place as the king of Pierce due to the T-21 because Riflemen who rely only on the T-21 will get their teeth stomped in if they try to do so. You all will always be dealing high AP in types that are minimally protected. It's something to be feared.Eventually.
Yeah i agree. that an HELLO T21 is like the bigest **edit** gun in the **edit** game!!!! why not AP3
Plus how does this take away from commando??? i keep hereing this but you have to
a) compare damages, speeds,ham costs, and extras like PUTING A MOTHER **edit**ER on fire!!
b) and take into account that we are not as broken as you and how will this change after you get fixed(no one really knows)
currently no one is doing ANY of this.
also i am alittle pissed off that because you guys are soooo broken you have nothing better to do than try to break other classes that you dont have a **edit**ing CLUE about 
lol good luck guys you will need it
PS go read the forum where they said ok we are changing the AP to 1 and then all the GOOD points that were made..... How good you ask?????........ GOOD ENOUGHT FOR THE DEVS TO COME BACK IN AND SO OOPS WE **edit**ED UP!!! YOU GUYS ARE RIGHT I AGREE WE WILL CHANGE IT BACK!!!!!!!!!
i agree that asking for a nerf is not the answer to anything at this point, but i also agree that ommands should be the main armor peircing class.
my suggestion is to make the t21 a ar2 and make ONE commando weapon ar3 that is high damage and slow as hell.
t21 should be armor peircing imo, but not at the same as a heavy weapons experts weapon should be
and no i am not a rifleman 
Guys... the gun IS intended to be a very powerful weapon. Now I know the point is that you commandos want your weapons to be the HEAVIEST. I sympathize with you because your class is broken right now. I am a rifleman, going for master, but I'm also going to take 2 commando trees when I get up that stupid unarmed line, so I'm not completely biased here.
Please don't try to bring down the rifleman class. I honestly think we need the T21 to be strong in order to compete with other classes' abilities (yes I know, commando is broken). If you don't like the "AP 3", would you rather it had 300-600 damage? Again, I'm sorry your class is broken, but in the star wars universe, the T21 rifle is an armor piercing beast, so deal with it.
Actually, the more I think of it, the problem isn't with the T21, the problem is with the Laser Rifles. They shouldn't be AP2. There's no justification for it, and it's unbalanced because the certification comes in so early. Laser Rifle's damage is fine, but the AP is too high. A second-tier weapon like a Laser Rifle should not outperform a fourth-tier weapon like an E11, assuming the qualities are equal. The armour piercing values for Laser Rifles are just out of whack for it's damage range. Fix that, and a T21 with AP2 is a vastly superior weapon, and the entire skill tree has a more linear and logical progression.