Commando Archive
Thread: Update: Our Flame Damage Has Been Increased.
Daker said,
"Again Tao...you don't know what you are taking about.
Rancorsusually have from 10k to 30k hitpoints. By your logic, rancors would die in 2 to 4 ticks or less. I have never had a rancor die in any less than 6 to 12 ticks.
You can be disgusted...that doen't make your worthless gibberish right"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. NO RANCOR IN THE GAME HAS 30K HITPOINTS. Not even Ancient Bull Rancors... Secondly, JUST LAST NIGHT I had a Flame Single 2 DOT tick of 11,000. I combined it with Flame Single 1 for 6k, and Flame Cone 1 for 4k, and I had a total of over 20k DoT. THIS WAS LAST NIGHT. All you have to do (well, yesterday) was knockdown the enemy and you could get 11k bleeds... OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT COMMANDOS, so please, just STOP trying to defend the nerf.
You claim I don't know what I'm talking about.. but you're the one who doesn't know ANYTHING about how well Commando DoTs worked just yesterday.
garvin wrote:
Ok...maybe I missed something...where did it say in the patch notes that in game resists have been fixed...the only mention I saw was:
Bleed/Fire resistant clothing will now have an effect.
I also see:
DoT resist changes will make AT-STs more resistant to DoT damage. Dot resistances have been added giving the AT-ST extra protection against flamethrowers and other fire DoT based attacks.
Where does it say that heat resists on NPC's are working properly now...I'm not saying it isn't or that it shouldn't...I'm generally interested in finding where this conclusion was gained? In the game prior to the patch, even if something said it had Heat or Fire resistence, it still took the same amount of damage as an NPC without...I see mention specifically the AT-ST mentioned but not all NPC's who may have these resists...Please correct me if I am wrong here...
Interesting point Garvin. Only thing I can think of...maybe it's like the 2.5x penalty...they did it and just forgot to document it.
darth, the damage you see in the combat chat is not the dot damage, thats the initial damage. and that was indeed 7k. The DOT damage is the bubble floating damage that appeared above the rancor's head.. and that dot damage was 1.5k to 2k.
"HOWEVER, they instead dramatically increased commando damage to compensate for the loss of the dot. We didn't get a nerf....we do the same amount of damage. "
You are wrong in this Daker.
Pre-patch, flamesingle2 would do 9k initial damage, 1.5k to 2k damage per dot tick. dot tick not affected by armor rating or resists.
Now, flamesingle2 does 25% more (according to reported numbers). So 11250 damage initial (or, to use a nice inflated number, lets say it does 15k, just so you see how much less damage we do now).
Pre-patch:
AP0 flamer 9k initial on AR1 target applied 50% of 9k. so 4.5k damage. This is before the HEAT resists on the target itself. Then the dot ticked... for simplicity i'll just use the damage 2 ticks do. So its 4.5k damage from initial hit plus 4k from 2 dot ticks (2k per tick). total 8.5k damage in around 14 seconds time after the initial hit.
Post-Patch:
AP0 flamer 15k initial on AR1 gets 50% reduced.. thats 7.5k damage. Dots now tick for , from what ive heard reported, 500 damage average. 2 ticks. the total damage applied is 8.5k damage in 14 seconds after the initial hit.
Sound about the same? wrong. The heat resists arent taken into account.
on a composite armor (without taking into account the pvp damage reduction) that has 50% base heat resist..
prepatch: 9k initial hits AR1, gets reduced to 4.5k damage. that 4.5k damage gets 50% heat resist. that = 2.25k damage. 2 dot ticks, unnaffected by heat resist, 2k each tick= 4k damage. total damage: 6.25k damage.
post-patch: 15k initial hits AR1, gets reduced to 7.5k damage. that 7.5k gets 50% heat resist. that = 3.7k damage. 2 dot ticks, unnafacted by heat resist, 500 damage each tick= 1k. total damage done: 4.7k damage.
Still believe we now do more damage? And hey, I think I gave the post-patch flamer too much initial damage to begin with, but it just illustrates my point better. I think most post patchflamers will be doing 10k to 13k average.
Message Edited by DarthTaosin on 02-11-2004 02:27 PM
Tao,
I'd like to see you prove yourself - post these tables you supposively have.
DarthTaosin wrote:
Daker said,
"Again Tao...you don't know what you are taking about.
Rancorsusually have from 10k to 30k hitpoints. By your logic, rancors would die in 2 to 4 ticks or less. I have never had a rancor die in any less than 6 to 12 ticks.
You can be disgusted...that doen't make your worthless gibberish right"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. NO RANCOR IN THE GAME HAS 30K HITPOINTS. Not even Ancient Bull Rancors... Secondly, JUST LAST NIGHT I had a Flame Single 2 DOT tick of 11,000. I combined it with Flame Single 1 for 6k, and Flame Cone 1 for 4k, and I had a total of over 20k DoT. THIS WAS LAST NIGHT. All you have to do (well, yesterday) was knockdown the enemy and you could get 11k bleeds... OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT COMMANDOS, so please, just STOP trying to defend the nerf.
You claim I don't know what I'm talking about.. but you're the one who doesn't know ANYTHING about how well Commando DoTs worked just yesterday.
Dip**edit**! Just because you can get increased dot damage when something is knocked down doesn't chane the fact that my numbers are right. I have been presenting NON-knockdown numbers...why do you think that your knockdowned numbers have any relevence. You can STILL knock things down and get double damage moron. If you double my numbers (to account for the knockdown) and 1/2 your numbers (to account for your BS) you get the same numbers.
In fact...take all of my numbers in this post and double them to account for the knockdown bonus: there...are those the numbers thatyou want to see?
As for stacking ALL classes got their stacking nerfed genius. That was not a commando nerf, and the fact Iused to be able to do 10k in stacked dot damage at master doesn't change the fact that I was correct when I said that flame single 2 ALONE used to do 1500 to 2000 damage per tick against rancors for me.
i have fired krayt flamers with 1400+ max damage and ive never seen 7k dot tick, so i call that bull.
unless of course you fired the special at a KD'd target, thats a whole different story. I remember doing 25k initial with a tick for like 10k on a KD'd NSwitch a good while back 
. but since commando does not have KD that cannot be taken into account.
Tac,
I was ignoring the effects of armor on purpose....
Because Tao couldn't seem to even figure out that I was saying 25% increase in actual damage instead of actual + dot, I didn't want to give him any sharp objects to hurt himself with.
Yes, the heat resist changes are a big nerf...I am well aware of that.However, the heat resist problem is anerf that will be lessened when our other trees are fixed and we get other damage types.
The only points I have made are that: (1) we now do more actual damage, and (2) all or our damage is subject to heat resists now.
Against low-heat resist mobs, we will do more damage. Against high-heat resist mobs, we will hopefully have the option to switch to another weapon soon.
The point is...when our other trees get fixed, we will be doing the same damage against all mobs as we did before the patches (by selectively choosing weapons).
that is partially true, however, you are thinking pve only.
what about pvp? you do know the new ham system is supposed to let people spam specials more.. while we will be firing ap0 weapon on composite wearers of 50%+ heat resist, inaccurate, 5X slower than other proffessions can fire specials, with reduced dot damage...
before we were outdamaged by a small amount. now we will be really outdamage in pvp. once the new ham goes in we will be MASSIVELY outdamaged in pvp.
Oh, and this fixing the other weapons... a nice dream. but I doubt soe will ever fix them. not as long as TH is inserting his chainsaw up our collective arses.
TechnoHic wrote:
it still doesnt change the fact we are super outdamaged DPS.
I can't say this isn't true, as I haven't tested our new damage out put other than shooting a flamer 50-75 times over my lunch hour, and figured out that our damage before resists was increased.
What I can say, is the fact that the devs took it upon themselves to increase our damage to account for the loss of the dot MIGHT (I know I may be giving the devs too much credit here) show that they are concerned about preserving a damage advantage for commandos. That would be a good thing.
If that is true, the damage output issue MIGHT be fixed in the upcoming combat balance where all weapon stats are being adjusted.
Al we can hope is that TH gives us some insight in the Top 10 thread, instead of doing his normal "I'm going to be vague and make you yell at me for details" thing.
LOL!!! No comment (other than to agree). Yeah...everytime TH says "I am a commando" I cringe...especially now that he has also said "I don't think commando is broken at all."
tacwraith wrote:
that is partially true, however, you are thinking pve only.
what about pvp? you do know the new ham system is supposed to let people spam specials more.. while we will be firing ap0 weapon on composite wearers of 50%+ heat resist, inaccurate, 5X slower than other proffessions can fire specials, with reduced dot damage...
before we were outdamaged by a small amount. now we will be really outdamage in pvp. once the new ham goes in we will be MASSIVELY outdamaged in pvp.
Well, yes and no. Chances are that 50% composite is also 50% resistant to pistols (acid and head), rifles (energy), and carbines (I have no idea). The armor isn't the reason we are insuperior.
As for AP0 on the flamer and our inaccuracy...these are the reasons. You know me...I want armor piercing and more accuracy just as much as you do.
As I have said earlier in this thread (look up)...because the dot is gone, our inaccuracy is now HUGE. I think it needs to be #2 on the Top5 now (right after fixing our other freaking trees).
Oh, and this fixing the other weapons... a nice dream. but I doubt soe will ever fix them. not as long as TH is inserting his chainsaw up our collective arses.