Commando Archive
Thread: Update: Our Flame Damage Has Been Increased.
First off, I agree, I've neverseen DoT Damage as high as 7K from a single shot, though I've seen them stack that high.
I'm nervous about the changes. While I'm glad that they compensated for the DoT damage nerf, the ability to do 11,000 on the initial hit will draw out so many people crying "nerf" that it's hard to be too jubilant.
All tolled though, and ignoring future calls for nerfs, I think Dakir has shown pretty conclusively that the damage increase on the special makes up for the decrease in the DoT damage. All it means is that we cannot hit with a special, then kite until the target dies, we have to stay in close if we want to kill the target quickly.
That's bad for PvP, but not so bad for PvE.
Since Flame Cone does no initial damage to anything but the main target usually (but attached the DoT to everything in the cone), I can't see using it much. So there's a change.
This change is more or less neutral for us, then, but bad for the other combat classes, most of whom do not get big initial damagenumbers from their bleed shots (as 125% of nearly nothing is still nearly nothing).
Can anyone confirm that the damage of the DoT is tied to the wound percentage?
"Well, yes and no. Chances are that 50% composite is also 50% resistant to pistols (acid and head), rifles (energy), and carbines (I have no idea). The armor isn't the reason we are insuperior."
not really.
flamer and pistol hitting composite with 50% resists to its relative damage type , flamer doing the inflated 15k damage (which really should be more around 10 to 13k) per shot per 10 seconds, and pistol doing 1.2k damage per second per shot..
if both AP0, then the flamer does only a measly 750 damage more than the pistol.. from 16m of course, not 64m. an ap1 pistol will do 12k damage per 10 seconds (10 shots at 1.2k ..though we both know stopping shot does a lot more than that), hits AR1.. no problem, no damage reduction.. hits 50% resist in composite to its damage type, blammo! 6k damage. flamer? 15k per shot per 10 seconds hits AR1, its 50% damage reduced, then hits heat resist, another 50%. thats 3.75k damage per 10 seconds. From 16m.
And really, who pvp's using an ap0 pistol? (besides commando haha).
"As for AP0 on the flamer and our inaccuracy...these are the reasons. You know me...I want armor piercing and more accuracy just as much as you do. As I have said earlier in this thread (look up)...because the dot is gone, our inaccuracy is now HUGE. I think it needs to be #2 on the Top5 now (right after fixing our other freaking trees)."
accuracy wasnt a problem for me in any of the previous patches, even with the matrix defense stacker combos. again i peddle Intimidate as a commando tool. and i think it will be even less of an issue when SOE removes the defense stacking completely (and they will, theyve already stated so and the carebear whiners did much rejoicing).
"That's bad for PvP, but not so bad for PvE."
thats where the problem is.
the whining comes from pvp. not pve. The small CONCERN in pve was about people griefing by torching a group's target and ruining their xp with the dot. Well, now the dot gives XP and yes, even a 500 pnt dot will grief a lot, because it is now REWARDED xp. I expect to see this abused in dathomir tonight... generating more whines and nerf cries.
the tests ...well, so called 'tests' TH did were pvp (well, so called pvp).
And now we REALLY do LESS damage than ever before in pvp, sincethe dot is nowseriously decreasedand the initial damage is significantly reduced by armor. But you will get morons coming to the forums and crying that a commando did massive damage to them in one hit, that they get 25% more damage in the initial hit (which does not kill them)...but they will NOT see the dot does zilch to them no more.
The crying will reach epic levels, TH will then do another of his turing tests , fail it, then post flamer is still overpowered and nerf it even more.
If doubling the damage on my weapon is a nerf, feel free to nerf me any time.
I'd rather have the huge upfront damage than the DOT, All the dot was good for was watching people roast while I layed incapped on the ground.
You're describing something that should've been in the game a long time ago. The DOT should've never ignore resists.
I'm happy with the change.
tacwraith wrote:darth, the damage you see in the combat chat is not the dot damage, thats the initial damage. and that was indeed 7k. The DOT damage is the bubble floating damage that appeared above the rancor's head.. and that dot damage was 1.5k to 2k.
"HOWEVER, they instead dramatically increased commando damage to compensate for the loss of the dot. We didn't get a nerf....we do the same amount of damage. "
You are wrong in this Daker.
Pre-patch, flamesingle2 would do 9k initial damage, 1.5k to 2k damage per dot tick. dot tick not affected by armor rating or resists.
Now, flamesingle2 does 25% more (according to reported numbers). So 11250 damage initial (or, to use a nice inflated number, lets say it does 15k, just so you see how much less damage we do now).
Pre-patch:
AP0 flamer 9k initial on AR1 target applied 50% of 9k. so 4.5k damage. This is before the HEAT resists on the target itself. Then the dot ticked... for simplicity i'll just use the damage 2 ticks do. So its 4.5k damage from initial hit plus 4k from 2 dot ticks (2k per tick). total 8.5k damage in around 14 seconds time after the initial hit.
Post-Patch:
AP0 flamer 15k initial on AR1 gets 50% reduced.. thats 7.5k damage. Dots now tick for , from what ive heard reported, 500 damage average. 2 ticks. the total damage applied is 8.5k damage in 14 seconds after the initial hit.
Sound about the same? wrong. The heat resists arent taken into account.
on a composite armor (without taking into account the pvp damage reduction) that has 50% base heat resist..
prepatch: 9k initial hits AR1, gets reduced to 4.5k damage. that 4.5k damage gets 50% heat resist. that = 2.25k damage. 2 dot ticks, unnaffected by heat resist, 2k each tick= 4k damage. total damage: 6.25k damage.
post-patch: 15k initial hits AR1, gets reduced to 7.5k damage. that 7.5k gets 50% heat resist. that = 3.7k damage. 2 dot ticks, unnafacted by heat resist, 500 damage each tick= 1k. total damage done: 4.7k damage.
Still believe we now do more damage? And hey, I think I gave the post-patch flamer too much initial damage to begin with, but it just illustrates my point better. I think most post patchflamers will be doing 10k to 13k average.
Im not. Numbers prove, opinions talk.
tacwraith wrote:
im glad your happy with you now spending twice the skillpoints to use a weapon that BEFORE the patch was OUTDAMAGED by all other ranged elite proffessions and is NOW about 25% WORSE than it was before in damage output.
Im not. Numbers prove, opinions talk.
No. I think our attacks SHOULD be much stronger than others though. They ARE 16m range AND on a 10s timer AND cost twice the skillpoints to get. SOE just did NOT think these changes well enough. Or should I say, just didnt read the commando forums for untold months, many different alternatives and fixes were proposed. They just caved in to the whiners and really one-sided opinion from a certain employee and took the easy road to pleasing them. Without even consulting the commando community for feedback too btw.
Did a little fooling around and this is what my experience has been so far...
I was killing sharnaffs, they have 20% heat resistance, Flame single 2 was hitting anywhere between 8k and 11k, the single dots were doing 1400, 1500 damage at about the same rate as before, but here is the $hitty part, I killed a bull using no dots and got over 3k xp, then I hit one with flame single 2, it applied the dot but did no damage , blocked or countered or something then I feigned death and let the dot do the rest and I got 510xp for it.I thought dots were supposed to count tword xp.