Commando Archive
Thread: Todays FF: Dont even waste the bandwidth looking at it...
Novock wrote:
Matter fact u and starnick both have been telling everyone it was coming this week. You should not be defending them on this you should be calling on the carpet. Its an absurdity. delaying a post about delaying the CU.
I knew I'd get misquoted...I even stressed "MAY HAPPEN" when I said that a post would be coming this week...every place I mentioned an upcoming post I stated full out that it might happen, but that it wasn't guarenteed...I even repeated that in various posts so folks knew that there were no promises. I brought up the possible announcement this week to give you all a heads up to know what to keep an eye out for...
Why would I "call them on the carpet" for something that I knew had a chance of not happening this week? Why would any of you call me or starnick out on it when we said that it "may happen" and that it "wasn't guarenteed"...
100% agreed and that's where my biggest complaint about their communication style comes in...I don't get pissed about them missing deadlines or being late on something...I get upset about them not keeping the public in the loop about delays and lateness...If something goes wrong or timelines change, just let us know...
Novock wrote:
garvin wrote:
Novock wrote:
This isn't about the FF in my opinion. Its about Th saying last week that they would be posting about about the reason why the delay on the CU this week. Its TH who said they were going to post it. I don't know how you defend that.
I'm not defending it expect to say that Tyrant said specifically that they'll miss deadlines and we need to accept that (that went for all his staff)...we don't have to like it, but it happens...we don't know all the reasons why they are missed (could be very valid) and that's why I complain about the level of communication...but as for whether missing a deadline they promised being good or bad, I don't know without knowing ALL of the info...
So again, don't like it, but can accept it as long as SOE keeps improving they way they have been...The trick is, when TH or anyone else says they'll make a post by a certain time, don't be surprised if something get's delayed...you can be upset about it, but really, and this is the sad part, is it really anything new? But also don't let the frustrations over the delays cloud the other good things that HAVE happened as some of the posters seem to be doing...Someone complained that Starnick was standing up for SOE...Starnick was just bringing up the positive things that SOE has done lately...he's just notwilling to to focus only on the negative and try to balance the bad things with some of the good that has transpired lately...
I'm not shocked but why couldn't he make a quick post and sya you know I told u guys we would be posting about _____ but its not going to work out. Instead he lets us wait all week and then friday afternoon he posts this FF still saying nothing about the other until provoked to adress it by the community and still dodges it. I think you guys need to get out of your Alpha board privilidged shell and actually look at how little has been told to the rest of us thenm you might better understand the level of frustration and in my case out right anger with SOE.
I'm not shocked but why couldn't he make a quick post and sya you know I told u guys we would be posting about _____ but its not going to work out. Instead he lets us wait all week and then friday afternoon he posts this FF still saying nothing about the other until provoked to adress it by the community and still dodges it. I think you guys need to get out of your Alpha board privilidged shell and actually look at how little has been told to the rest of us thenm you might better understand the level of frustration and in my case out right anger with SOE.
StarNick wrote:
Matter fact u and starnick both have been telling everyone it was coming this week. You should not be defending them on this you should be calling on the carpet. Its an absurdity. delaying a post about delaying the CU.
Which was the original gameplan, before TH said he was going to delay it a day or so ago...
Im more focused on the CU itself rather than FF's, as they have been a major letdown to you guys, as well as myself in the past (*cough*JTL*cough*). I really regard them just as a novelty now and don't get hopes pinned up on them...now if we finally got a great CU related FF (such as that profession one we were promised months ago), then my interest in them would be restored...as well as for you guys as well.
They are novelties for you but for us they are only hope for info.
I don't go around trying to fester up excitement for these things, but if I do hear it *may* be CU related...then of course Ill pass it on. Maybe a disclaimer as garvin said to take things not set in stone with a grain of salt is in order? On everything we have to say? If thats the case...then there would be virtually little flow of communication - less than there already is now. Ever wonder why the devs don't give out information as readily...?
Its absurd to blame the community for the lack of SOE communication. They have the information and create the feeding frenzy by their silence. If they get flamed its on them not on the community.If a multi-million dollar software and developement coimpany can not afford to put in place appropriate and proper CS and customer communication its their fault not the customers.
Nitpicking and accusing others isn't the best thing for a discussion...keep in mind that many times we're told one thing (or TH makes an announcement), and there is a change of plan later on that either was announced in some obscure response or not at all. I agree that communication in this manner gets annoying and could be improved (or announcements can be made like..."Sorry folks we had to delay.." to the public) and we're still paying customers as you guys are.
TH never said he may make the post. he said he would make a post about why the delay in the CU. Then he didn't even follow up ion it. My gripe is far more with Th than you or garvin.
Yeah Ill be flamed for that opinion, and no doubt because of frustrations which I perfectly understand. Its tough, its annoying as hell....but "he says, she says" never goes anywhere but down.
Message Edited by Novock on 03-04-2005 07:01 PM
Novock wrote:
I'd much rather have the burden of knowing than sitting constantly in the dark not knowing what to do with your toon.
... or with your $15 a month....
Druce Bayne
cybersword26 wrote:
I just find it disappointing that starnick and garvin defend the actions SOE in one hand and say they are not on the other. Let me explain anytime you make excuses for Th or try to redefine their statements are DEFENDING THEIR ACTIONS. If TH word is not good enough then why is SOE giving him a paycheck. Tyrant's word ( the man in charge according to you guys) is just about as worthless. Lets review the CU info the devs have given for one sec: new pictures of armors and new pictures of weapons ALL EYE CANDY. And just a little bit of details that ap will be gone and ranged weapons will have 3 settings. Hmmmmmmm........ THAT TELLS JACK CRAP ABOUT COMBAT, combat roles , skills , ham , buffs or anything that really matters. Take one liitle second to realize that unlike you don't have access to the cu forums and know nothing and have been told nothing. I've been paying this game now since 2 weeks after launch like alot of people me want to know WHATS GOING TO CHANGE IN THE CU. and we want to know when they are oing to start testing it........ now since its march and there is no testing no info.................... unless of course you count the pretty pictures. INFO , INFO thats what we want. We pay to play this game and we want to know when they are going to fix combat ( its not an upgrade its an way overdue fix ) we are sick and tired of paying to play a beta.
Let me get this straight...I'm defending TH and SOE because:
I stated that Tyrant told us there would be delays and not to trust any timeline or promised post schedule...
or is it because...
I stated that I know TH had something ready but for whatever reason didn't post it...likely an approval issue...
or is it because...
I've said that SOE needs to do a lot to improve their communication (which is the real issue here) in a public forum where they can see me say it (which I have done repeatedly)....
or is it because...
I fight almost daily to try and get you all information...
or is it because...
I'm not willing to give into the pessimism flowing because a FF sucked (gee how many times have we been disappointed by a FF...like it's a new thing)...
and so on and so on and so on...yadda yadda yadda...
I don't defend them...I state the obvious...TH said he would post something, but we all know TH doesn't make the decisions...he can make all the promises he wants (which I never saw him say "I promise), but if someone higher up tells him to hold off, guess what, he HAS TO hold off...
You seem to have missed a lot regarding the CU...we've seen a lot more then just pics and head that ap is gone...We've heard how Armor is going to work...we've heard counters are coming...we've heard that EVERY combat profession is getting new weapons...we've heard that Commandos are getting a defense boost, keeping their DoT, gaining the ability to defend against KD, gaining ranged abilities, will gain usefulness from ALL of our pre-reqs, and many other obvious hints that someone (don't know who) has dropped....we've heave heard that Beta could start as soon as 2 weeks after Alpha gets going, and so on and so on...it's all there, where have you been? TH has even explained the skill point re-allocation tentative plans several times.
Between the Devs, Starnick and me, we've told you a lot...there is a reason why a lot of folks visit this community, even non-commandos, on a regular basis...For someone who has been playing since 2 weeks after launch, I can't believe you've missed all the info that has been revealed...about the only thing those who've been paying attention don't know is what the numbers will be like, and who get's which weapons (although those hints have been dropped as well)...You need to open your eyes, read more posts, and then comment truthfully on who is "defending SOE's actions"...
I'm not defending their actions...I'm restating what has already been said...I'm not redefining anything if I'm just restating it...The basic jist of what I've been saying is "shouldn't we expect this stuff by now"? I never said we have to like it and I've never said that the frustration wasn't justified...It sucks, but to claim that you know nothing is pretty weak don't you think...
Yes, those in the CU forums know a bit more...but everything we know is constantly in change...the overall scheme stays the same, but the specifics are in flux...What I mean by that I can't say (was hoping TH's announcement would explain)...I hate not being able to share what I know, but I've also seen what happens when the docs get leaked out in an incomplete fashion (I've had tons of paniced PM's from people who didn't understand what they were reading)...
I wish for even just one day you all could see the CU and Correspondent forums...you'd never ever again accuse Starnick or me of "defending SOE"...I've worked my butt off to earn the respect of my community...I have never lied to you, I've been totally open with you (even when I feared it could come back to bite me in the butt), and I even resigned from being a Correspondent (a position I loved) just to get onemore of you onto the Sandbox...and then posts like this one, one that questions my priorities and where my loyalty is, sends a lot of thanks my way...
K i'm willing to learn teach my how to better voice my frustration.
Everyone has a gripe with TH heh. The main idea I think garvin and I are trying to get out...is that there are better ways to vent your frustration....
Message Edited by Novock on 03-04-2005 10:58 PM
garvin wrote:
cybersword26 wrote:
I just find it disappointing that starnick and garvin defend the actions SOE in one hand and say they are not on the other. Let me explain anytime you make excuses for Th or try to redefine their statements are DEFENDING THEIR ACTIONS. If TH word is not good enough then why is SOE giving him a paycheck. Tyrant's word ( the man in charge according to you guys) is just about as worthless. Lets review the CU info the devs have given for one sec: new pictures of armors and new pictures of weapons ALL EYE CANDY. And just a little bit of details that ap will be gone and ranged weapons will have 3 settings. Hmmmmmmm........ THAT TELLS JACK CRAP ABOUT COMBAT, combat roles , skills , ham , buffs or anything that really matters. Take one liitle second to realize that unlike you don't have access to the cu forums and know nothing and have been told nothing. I've been paying this game now since 2 weeks after launch like alot of people me want to know WHATS GOING TO CHANGE IN THE CU. and we want to know when they are oing to start testing it........ now since its march and there is no testing no info.................... unless of course you count the pretty pictures. INFO , INFO thats what we want. We pay to play this game and we want to know when they are going to fix combat ( its not an upgrade its an way overdue fix ) we are sick and tired of paying to play a beta.
Let me get this straight...I'm defending TH and SOE because:
I stated that Tyrant told us there would be delays and not to trust any timeline or promised post schedule...
To me thats an open get out of jail pass. By that logic there are no timeframe or deadlines. There is nothing. If you say we'll do this and you don't get to it you just say well we said there would be delays. You might find that as satisafactory an answer but I believe a company that cares for ALL its customers communicates better than saying you can't ever expect or hold us to a deadline.
or is it because...
I stated that I know TH had something ready but for whatever reason didn't post it...likely an approval issue...
or is it because...
I've said that SOE needs to do a lot to improve their communication (which is the real issue here) in a public forum where they can see me say it (which I have done repeatedly)....
Agree there you have stated your discontent with their communication but you seem sometimes to speak out from both sides. You say they don't do enough on communications then say they do more than enough.
or is it because...
I fight almost daily to try and get you all information...
I believe that to be true. However I do see you often defending SOE on not keeping any deadline with comments such as above where you are left to reason there are no deadline nor should we expect SOE to communicate and follow up on timeframes.
or is it because...
I'm not willing to give into the pessimism flowing because a FF sucked (gee how many times have we been disappointed by a FF...like it's a new thing)...
hmmm pessimism. We're kinda in a catch-22 aren't we. If we say nothing Shug_Nix says we're happy with the ways things are. If we speak out we are trols, pessimists and whatever else. Since we have been waiting for over a year for combat to be fixed pessimism is what you're going to get from me I make no apologies for it.
and so on and so on and so on...yadda yadda yadda...
I don't defend them...I state the obvious...TH said he would post something, but we all know TH doesn't make the decisions...he can make all the promises he wants (which I never saw him say "I promise), but if someone higher up tells him to hold off, guess what, he HAS TO hold off...
You do defend them, may not see it as that but when you state what you say is the obvious its always to give footing to SOE hence defending there position. Maybe its a thankless job that needs to be done but you do defend them.
You seem to have missed a lot regarding the CU...we've seen a lot more then just pics and head that ap is gone...We've heard how Armor is going to work...we've heard counters are coming...we've heard that EVERY combat profession is getting new weapons...we've heard that Commandos are getting a defense boost, keeping their DoT, gaining the ability to defend against KD, gaining ranged abilities, will gain usefulness from ALL of our pre-reqs, and many other obvious hints that someone (don't know who) has dropped....we've heave heard that Beta could start as soon as 2 weeks after Alpha gets going, and so on and so on...it's all there, where have you been? TH has even explained the skill point re-allocation tentative plans several times.
Between the Devs, Starnick and me, we've told you a lot...there is a reason why a lot of folks visit this community, even non-commandos, on a regular basis...For someone who has been playing since 2 weeks after launch, I can't believe you've missed all the info that has been revealed...about the only thing those who've been paying attention don't know is what the numbers will be like, and who get's which weapons (although those hints have been dropped as well)...You need to open your eyes, read more posts, and then comment truthfully on who is "defending SOE's actions"...
this comment really bothers me. And I know as passions have been brought to life here that may be part in play. But you make it seems like there is very little information to be revealed that hasn't been revealed. Now I find that difficult to believe or maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to understand. Whichever the case if this is true then a need for information i guess is not needed.
I'm not defending their actions...I'm restating what has already been said...I'm not redefining anything if I'm just restating it...The basic jist of what I've been saying is "shouldn't we expect this stuff by now"? I never said we have to like it and I've never said that the frustration wasn't justified...It sucks, but to claim that you know nothing is pretty weak don't you think...
Yes, those in the CU forums know a bit more...but everything we know is constantly in change...the overall scheme stays the same, but the specifics are in flux...What I mean by that I can't say (was hoping TH's announcement would explain)...I hate not being able to share what I know, but I've also seen what happens when the docs get leaked out in an incomplete fashion (I've had tons of paniced PM's from people who didn't understand what they were reading)...
I wish for even just one day you all could see the CU and Correspondent forums...you'd never ever again accuse Starnick or me of "defending SOE"...I've worked my butt off to earn the respect of my community...I have never lied to you, I've been totally open with you (even when I feared it could come back to bite me in the butt), and I even resigned from being a Correspondent (a position I loved) just to get onemore of you onto the Sandbox...and then posts like this one, one that questions my priorities and where my loyalty is, sends a lot of thanks my way...
I wish we could see it too, but we can't. We are the peasants of the SOE community. Looked down upon not only by SOE by now by our own "elite" community members.
That said we are again talking about a delay to a post regarding why the CU has been delayed. No follow up by anyone at SOE. It appears they would have acted like they didn't even make the statment if the community didn't call them on it. Thats undefendable in my opinion. It has nothing to do with development, coding, resourcing or anything else. Its about a post stating this is why its taking so long. Now obviously a poor unitelligent peasant such as I cannot understand the grand scheme of development in a software company but you can't convince me that it was impossible for a post tro be carried out or atleast the remark to be followed up.
Now there it is everyone will make up their own mind just ask yourslef what more do you know now then you did back 5 months ago in October. Has SOE released enough information to warrant a 5 omnth wait. My opinion no. Some of these others obviously think we have gotten more than enough and are simply whining. To each is own. I'm done here, this conversion has only strengthened my decision to no longer wait for the CU, and to come back if it ever takes place. I have no personally negative feelings towards Garvin or Starnick. Garvin was the best coorespondent in the game Starnick is just getting his feet wet, but I absolutley positively believe SOE has failed miserably and has not stepped up to the plate but rather has drove deeper divisions not only between customer/dev but now has created to classes withing the customer base the nobles/peasants. For that I hate SOE communication team.