Commando Archive
Thread: Petition: Nix the 2.5x melee dmg for special heavy weapons NOW!
ok guys i'm going against the grain but i think a multiplier makes sense. the flaw in your analogy of punching a dev in the fact that he/she isnt fighting back. so, lets tweak the analogy:
your not holding any weapon, thus unarmed, and i punch you... you have a lot of options to move and block, thus we are on a 1:1 ratio of dmg to defense.
you are holding a pistol, and trying to shot me with it. its gonna require you to aim a little, but you can still duck, sway, and block with your other hand, but not as effectively as before. thus i could probablyhit 1.5 times as easily as before
now you are holding an mp5 ( i'm thinking sub machine guns from CS are the same as carbines) you need two hands to aim, you dont need to look down teh barrel or scope to hit though, so you still can move. but not as easily as before, because the weapon now has some weight, and you need some coordination in trying to aim, thus i can hit you 2.0 times as easily now.
now you are holding a rifle ( a 22, an awp, a laser rifle, whatever) you need to aim down the barrel, or look into the scope to aim. you need to hold the gun straight, the gun has kick back, you'll need to brace yourself. both your hands are being used. how effectivily could you stop me from assaulting you? there for i can hit you 2.5 times as easily.
.... i think melee modifiers are a good way to differenatiate the classes, but they do need a little tweaking. i personally think the flame thrower should be reduced to a 2.0-1.5 modifer. the biggest difference between us and rifleman is that we have done unarmed. we have training in melee combat, thus we shoudl be able to anticipate, dodge, counter much better than a rifleman who has had no melee training.
i'd like to hear what you guys think about this, i'd like to hear some discussion on it
Well I was against the rifleman 2.5x dam mod and I'm against this one too. Now you can talk about what is real and what isn't but the hard fact is that this game isn't about reality, it's about what works and what makes the game fun. Now i'm not even novice commando yet but having played rifleman I can imagine the yummy goodness of a 2.5x dam mod when you have to go into melee range. Not to mention the fact that virtually every mob in the game has a melee attack and most of them swarm now too.
The really funny part is that this doesn't even fix the problem everyone had with commandos, namely the flame dot. Now all this means is that it's a pain in the ass to PvE. Which makes me think this is just some dev plot to extend the life of a game that we have nothing to do in right now except kill stuff and level.
Leave the 2x in.
Now that heavy weapons are ranged, my melee toughness mods don't work against them anymore.
This damage modifier was put in, and it's a boon for melees. It gives us a chance again.
I'm against a situation where I must be INSIDE your optimum range to hit you, get no defensive bonuses vs a weapon that hits in melee harder than I do, AND get no bonuses to hurt you, where I can't move if I want to hit you, thus making your penalties to hit moving targets irrelevant. I'm against a situation you guys want to create where it's Commando > Melee, 100% of the time.
No thanks. Maybe the 2x needs some tweaking. We'll see. But you guys HAVE to some **edit** in that armor somewhere when it comes to melees. This is a good start.
Caelrie dear, pls go back to trolling the bounty hunter boards like you used to. Allow me to speak plainly when I say you're not in the least bit welcome here.
You might have valid arguments for PvP. I don't care. My interest is PvE. Ruing a professions performance PvE just to give it a vulnerability to one set of professions PvP is a poor design decision at best.
/sign
But guys, go post in the thread holo started specifically about these issues... It'll do a lot more good than posting on here.
Athein
"First of all, what is the sound reasoning behind this? For the rifleman? For the commando?? For any class at all??? There isn't one. There is nothing to simulate it accurately or even remotely accurate in real life--and we all know we use real life as a basis for most video games... And theidiotic notion that we use games to escape reality doesn't work here--that somehow the rules of the real world don't apply in the game world--because the truth is that we use the real world as a template and we deviate from it from time to time--but not too drastically. In other words, ruiles are bent and not broken: This is clearly an example of a broken rule. Once again, I call upon the Devs for a challenge..."
The reason for them is very plain and simple, BALANCE. In order to be a heavily oriented damage dealing class, there has to be a trade off. The fact that u can do pretty nice damage with your weapons (higher than rifleman i believe) needs to be offset somewhere. In this case its the melee modifier and the range limit on your specials. Its getting to be a real old story across these forums with everyone asking for everything and getting it more or less. There has to be pros and cons to each class. In your case, the 16m really didnt offset the amount of damage u were doing. If u think it was, I'll ask you this. Whats the point of a melee char when a commando can take damage nearly as well (extremely close) but deliver less damage? There is none. So you guys got slapped with this which is pretty fair imo.
Tilen, Scylla
Oaktree, give us some info so we can see where you're coming from.
Yes, our damage output is better than a rifleman's in the first second.
No, our dps is not significantly greater nor significantly less than the dps of any other elite/hybrid combat class.
Agreed that the issue is game balance, and for riflemen.... MAYBE its balanced, I've never played one, but it seems unfair. However, for commandos
-we can only do our specials from 16m, within melee range, now...
-we cannot assign all damage to one pool as any other elite combat class can
-we cannot survive even one second after initiating combat with higher-level mobs, so the better strategy and tactics discussion becomes a moot point.
Oaktree, game balance is great, but nothing says commando=BH=rifleman=pistoleer=carbineer=fencer=swordsman=pikeman=tka. Rather, skill point wise,
BH>Commando>any other elite combat profession. because, skill point wise,
********BH=commando+dabble=elite combat class + second elite combat class + dabble**********
In terms of game balance, there you have it.
In terms of solo and PvP, pre patch, BH>Commando>elite combat prof.
Now, in terms of solo,
BH>Elite combat prof>(Master marks=master brawler=commando)
in terms of PvP, the patch meant little, imho.
Athein
/sign
Right on. IMO, bonus damage should only be applied to targets in a lowered posture (kneeling/sitting/prone), and NEVER,EVER be applied based upon what weapons you happen to be holding. A to-hit at modifier for very close range based upon the weapon currently active? Absolutely. But extra damage? No way. (and that applies to all classes,not just Commando)
RomanaCorvus wrote:
Caelrie dear, pls go back to trolling the bounty hunter boards like you used to. Allow me to speak plainly when I say you're not in the least bit welcome here.
You might have valid arguments for PvP. I don't care. My interest is PvE. Ruing a professions performance PvE just to give it a vulnerability to one set of professions PvP is a poor design decision at best.
Romana dear, you're not a moderator, so save it.
My arguments are valid. And I don't care that you don't care. Your interests are not more important than mine. We both pay our $15.
Save the trolling comments too. You know what's fascinating about human nature? Those who do the most trolling are usually the first to call everyone a troll. And what have you done? Called me a troll for pointing out valid reasons that this change has merit. What will I find if I look at your other posts? Do you call EVERYONE who dares disagree with you a "troll"? I bet I would.
Caelrie, Caelrie, Caelrie....
What will I find if I look at your other posts? Do you call EVERYONE who dares disagree with you a "troll"? I bet I would.
Okay. Here's my wager. You bet I've called anyone else but you on the SWG boards a troll. If you win, I'll apologize and delete my account. If I win, you apologize and delete YOUR account. I can guarantee I've never called anyone but you on the SWG forums (all of'em) a troll.
OTOH, if I run a search for all posts with Caelrie and the word "Troll" I find.... wow, you've accused others of being trolls THAT many times? Amazing that you'd do that and STILL post your little tidbit about human nature. Most people in glass houses have the sense to reach for the windex, not the rocks.
Then again.... if I search for all posts CALLING you a troll I discover that over eighty people have. Wow, huh?
Of course, I also notice you have a tendency to kick any profession once it's down. BHs, DEs, Commandosetc. It's something that more then one other person has actually remarked upon, in fact.
But that's besides the point, really.What is the point is you offered a bet. I've named my wager. Will you take it, or was it empty words on your part?
RomanaCorvus wrote:
Caelrie, Caelrie, Caelrie....
What will I find if I look at your other posts? Do you call EVERYONE who dares disagree with you a "troll"? I bet I would.
Okay. Here's my wager. You bet I've called anyone else but you on the SWG boards a troll. If you win, I'll apologize and delete my account. If I win, you apologize and delete YOUR account. I can guarantee I've never called anyone but you on the SWG forums (all of'em) a troll.
OTOH, if I run a search for all posts with Caelrie and the word "Troll" I find.... wow, you've accused others of being trolls THAT many times? Amazing that you'd do that and STILL post your little tidbit about human nature. Most people in glass houses have the sense to reach for the windex, not the rocks.
Then again.... if I search for all posts CALLING you a troll I discover that over eighty people have. Wow, huh?
I don't often call people a troll. The vast majority of the posts you mention are where I quoted someone who said the word in his post. Go look, you'll see.
As for being called a troll... Big deal. All it means on these boards is that someone disagreed with me. I've done no trolling here today. I even educated a few commandos as to new moves they can do with a flamethrower. Even YOU admitted that the post you called a troll had some good points in it. You just happened to not like the post very much so you sank to ad hominem attacks. Shame.
On the other hand, YOU are the one here today generalizing and saying bad things about riflemen, directing people to threads on other people's boards (who then come back and say you were imagining things) in the hopes of stirring up trouble and "proving" your character attacks. I'm glad your fellow commandos saw through it as I did.
Pathetic coward. Won't take the bet, huh? Wouldn't even face the question.
And yes, I did actually read a handful of the posts. MOST were you being called a troll (with good reason). Not all of'em, though, not by a long shot.