CUEmu - Thread Posts

Curxcha

Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:05 am

garvin wrote:

Hello again everyone...Well I took all the suggestions listed below and worked them into our 10 Questions the best I could...The questions below have been revised a bit, some were re-worded, and the 2 grenade questions were combined into one, leaving room for a new #10 question relating to the Master Commando box. Again, feedback is most welcome. If all looks ok, I plan on submitting these questions to TH by Wednesday.

Great, "Ship it"

_______________________________________________________________________________________

- Curx Curxed; Imperial Colonel, Master TK, Master Swordsman and Master Brawler (Ex MC and MCH).

- Cur Curxed; Master Artisan, Master Merchant and Master Architect.

- Curxed Industries; Housing, Harvestors and Factories

- Curxed Mining Corp.

Jeren_Sehn

Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:32 am

#28

I'd like to hearken back to one of Lord S's questions. What role is it that the devs think we're supposed to play in this game? We used to have superior ranged heat and acid attacks, though the DXR-6 makes Riflemen more feared as "acid use" goes, and the bezerker rifle seems poised to do the same thing for heat damage.

There was the suggestions that blast damage was our niche (ranged blast damage, I suppose, since the Swordsman can do far more blast damage than we can per second and per attack). Why then don't we have any specials that can increase the effectiveness of the LP? Is our blast niche supposed to be protected solely by the rocket launcher? Why then are they so difficult to manufacture that many weaponsmiths refuse to do so?

More fundanmentally, if blast damage is outr niche...why is that? The only mob/target that has a severe vulnerability to that type of damage is the AT-STs and turrets, which neutral Commandos can't attack anyway (and Imperial Commandos can't attack ATSTs and wouldn't want to if they could).

I think half my lingering dissatisfaction comes from this profession's failing to live up to my expectations of what it *should* be. Perhaps if I knew what the devs intended it to be, I could be less dissatisfied.

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[~~]nnn~~WX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

(ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg8WX~~nnn~~][[[[[[[[[[nng)

Daker-Naritus

Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:15 pm

#29

Garvin, I think I agree with Jeren...

Yes, commandos like having the role of the AT-ST ("tank")/Turret killer...but I REALLY don't think we should pose any question to the devs that lets them think it is ok for that to be ALL we are. I think that is exactly what the question implies...

If commando's only specialty is tank/turret killing, what do we do for the other 99.9% of the time we are playing. In my experience, the opportunities players have to bust turrets/tanks happen once in a blue moon. Unless you are in one of those every night raiding guilds (rare), you would get the chance to use those abilities maybe once a month, if that.

On my server, almost every guild has destroyed their own bases because of all the bugs thay have (hence no turrets), and I have seen 1 AT-ST in the last 3 weeks. How useful are commandos for 99% of their time?

We need to commit devs to the premise that we cost more skill points than other elite classes, AND we have to use all of our specials within close range or buy REALLY expensive rocket launchers or grenades,so weSHOULD have a damage bonus over over all other elite classes. We may not get all the great pvp specials that smugglers/BHs/others get for individual pvp combat, but on the battle field we can really put out the damage and we leave nothing standing.

Currently our damage issub-par IMHO. One of my friends is a master rifleman, and was doing area of effect damage OVER 10KPER MOB (with a T-21) last night with strafe shot 2...that is just plain wrong considering that they cost 1/2 as many skill points.

I am tired of TH jacking us around, being vague,and acting like he knows what we want/need.We cannot rely on the guy who has been saying formonths that "commando isnot broken" to get things right unless we spoon feed it to him. We need him to say "we are balancing you with all other elite classes" so we can scream bloody murder and start objecting, or "we envision commandos to havea damage advantage" so we can work toward achieving that.

The combat balance isn't out yet, and after it is out, they aren't going to reverse it unless hell freezes over. We need to clear our "damage advantage" role up now or we risk losing it...

I see 2 questions involving the launcher pistol and its specials...I say we combine those 2 questions and leave room for this question: What do the developers view our roleas a class (including damage capabilities compared to other classes) to be in (1) PvP; (2) PvE, and (3) Battlefields (tanks and turrets)?

TH needs to start realizing that battlefields are the exception, and that it is unacceptable for our only advantage to be killing tanks/turrets.

As a side note...I don't think it benefits us to have our own mods for the launcher pistol... None of the other classes get the launcher pistol cert, and the launcher pistol sucks compared to other pistols.

In short, there is no incentive for any other class to use the launcher (because they would have to become a commando to make it usuable).

Additionally, think of what this would cause... A Novice Commando (advanced hybrid profession) that gets 5 new weapons (flamer, launcher, HAR, rocket, grenade) but doesn't have accuracy or speed mods for any of them so they can't level or kill anything. Yikes...

What we need for the launcher is ADDITONAL (not different) pistol mods (as in accuracy and speed) and commando-only specials to use with the launcher pistol. I think creating new mods for the launcher pistol is missing the point...

Just my 2 cents...

Daker-Naritus

Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:24 pm

#30

To illustrate...both of these say the exact same basic thing:

3.) Is it possible to combine the Flamethrower and HAR into one tree, leaving room for a new tree to represent the Launcher Pistol, other Ranged weapon (Beam Rifle or E-Web) or Unarmed "Dirty" moves?

5.) Has there been any proposed ideas, for the LP, to be made a Commando specific weapon? *By this I mean, it does not use Pistol Accuracy and Speed, but gains it's own Mods and Specials for Commandos*

They say: "Can we combine the HAR and flamer tree to make room for a launcher pistol (or alternatively an unarmed dirty move tree) that has LP only specials and additional pistol accuracy/speed bonuses?"

Why not combine these 2 questions and ask TH EXACTLY what our role in the war AND (most importantly) the general world is?

garvin

Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:33 pm

#31

Daker...

I will work on rewording the "purpose" question a bit...I meant it to focus on one aspect of our "SWG" role...didn't really mean it to sound like that was our only role...

As for the Launcher Pistol...Name me one profession that has a Cert for a weapon, but no specials they can use with it contained within their Profession? Pistoleers have a lot of weapons in their arsenal, but none that do Blast damage...so yes, it would be in there best interest, if they want a blast damage weapon, to get Novice Commando...doesn't it bug you that at Novice Commando, a Pistoleer can use our weapon better then a Master Commando? Is the LP nothing but training wheels for a new Commando? While pushing for new weapons and changes, shouldn't we also take what we currently own, and make it more useful.

If we had Mods and Specials of our own for the LP we'd accomplish 2 goals:

We'd have at least one valid ranged weapon with ranged specials.

We'd keep our niche as the ranged blast damage profession.

I'm not saying every Pistoleer wants to run out and get Novice Commando just so they can get ahold of our LP...but it bothers many of us that they can...and when they do, they are better with our own weapon then we are...if we are willing to live with that, why not just move the LP down to Pistol4 of Marksman and give them the gun?

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Daker-Naritus

Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:30 pm

#32

garvin wrote:

As for the Launcher Pistol...Name me one profession that has a Cert for a weapon, but no specials they can use with it contained within their Profession?

Yeah but that has nothing to do what I was saying about mods... I wholeheartedly agree we need a launcher pistol tree with our OWN specials... I was just arguing that we don't need our own ("own" = mods that ONLY work for the launcher pistol and not any other pistol)accuracy/speed mods for the launcher... I think a novice commando should be able to hit the broadside of a barn with at least one of our weapons, and currently the launcher is it (because we start with pistols mods).

I thin we should be asking for additional general pistol mods, not the creation of new launcher pistol mods...

Don't be so hostile.... I was just stating my opinion...

Pistoleers have a lot of weapons in their arsenal, but none that do Blast damage...so yes, it would be in there best interest, if they want a blast damage weapon, to get Novice Commando...doesn't it bug you that at Novice Commando, a Pistoleer can use our weapon better then a Master Commando?

Yes, but that is why I say that we need additional pistol mods. If you give us additional pistol mods (like i am advocating) that isn't the case.

I am not saying we don't need more accuracy/speed mods, I am just saying we don't need special launcher pistol only ones...

Also, as far as a pistoleer/commando using a launcher pistol, I have NO problems with that. If a master pistoleerspends the extra77 skill points (marksman rifle tree + marksman carbine tree + ranged support tree + novice brawler + unarmed tree + novice commando) that it takes to get the launcher pistol...so what? If they spend 14 (total of 91) more skill points above and beyond that for our pistol specials...so what? They paid for it.

Think about this for a sec...for anextra34skill points we can getmost of pistoleers speed mods and good specials, and for an additional 14 (total of 48) above and beyond that we get all their accuracy mods as well. Bounty hunters and smugglers can invade into pistoleer as well. Why is it wrong for pistoleersthat spend 77 extra skill points and actually become commandos to use the launcher pistol?

Point is, if they spend the skill points on it, they deserve it IMHO. I don't see why this has ANY benefit at all for the profession...if they have to be commandos to get a launcher, then theyARE commandos and deserve to use the launcher because they spent the skill points to use it. I don't see why we have to gimp our own kin in the beginning just to keep people from using a crappy AP0 pistol that people have to spend a massive amount of skill points to use.

Is the LP nothing but training wheels for a new Commando? While pushing for new weapons and changes, shouldn't we also take what we currently own, and make it more useful.

Again, not what I said. I said the launcher pistol doesn't need its own mods. I said that is DOES need a tree with commando launcher specialsand extra general pistol mods.

If we had Mods and Specials of our own for the LP we'd accomplish 2 goals:

We'd have at least one valid ranged weapon with ranged specials.

We'd keep our niche as the ranged blast damage profession.

I'm not saying every Pistoleer wants to run out and get Novice Commando just so they can get ahold of our LP...but it bothers many of us that they can...and when they do, they are better with our own weapon then we are...

Again, not what I said. I said the launcher pistol doesn't need its own mods. I DO want additional pistol mods, and I DO want new pistol specials.

I just think it is silly to try to prevent people from using the launcher pistol by gimping it.

if we are willing to live with that, why not just move the LP down to Pistol4 of Marksman and give them the gun?

Come on Garvin, lets be real here... Making them spend anextra77 skill points is not giving them the gun...

Garvin, think about it this way....

In our marksman prerequisite we get a total of +30 speed and a total of +60 accuracy.

A Master Pistoleer gets a total of +49 Speed and +45 Accuracy.

What I am proposing is to give commandos pistol mods similar to Pistoleers that stack with the current pistol mods.

What you are proposing is to eliminate the stacking we get with pistol speed/accuracy mods, and create a WHOLE NEW kind of mod...

So under my plan, a Master commando would get the same (or similar) pistol mods as a pistoleer (NOTE: BH's do in their scatter pistol tree, why shouldn't we?). So a master commando would get a total of +79 to speed and +105 to accuracy.

Under your plan, a Master commando would get only the commando mods, for a total of +49 Speed and +45 Accuracy.

How is +49 Speed and +45 Accuracy that much better than +30 speed and +60 accuracy? Granted, we may get a little more than +49 Speed and +45 Accuracy with our own mods, but can't you see that because we would be losing the stacking pistol mods, we really aren't gaining that much? Is taking away pistoleer's ability to spend 77 extra skill points andEARN commando for the launcher pistol really more beneficial to the commando class than stackable pistol mods?

I don't think so, but we do sometime disagree

garvin

Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:37 pm

#33

Sorry if I sounded hostile...that's the problem with posting responses...it's hard to judge their mood...I meant it in friendly debate tone...I value your opinion and anyone elses and everyone's opinion has merit...

To spend the pts may seem unreasonable for a Master Pistoleer to get the Launcher Pistol Cert...but think about it this way...that leaves them enough pts remaining to Master Rifleman or Master TKAor Master another Profession, etc...It leaves them with 75 pts remaining.

For a Master Commando to get 1 tree of Pistoleer, it leaves us with 61 ots remaining...not enough to master an additional profession (unless you want to Master Pistoleer)...14 pts may not seem like a lot to some, but when you it does mean the difference between getting an additon Master Box and not getting it...

So it's really not a difficult choice if a Pistoleer wants the Launcher pistol or not...even spending the more skill points still leaves them with plenty remaining...heck, while they are at it, grab the Flame Tree as well and they have an LP they can use better then us as well as the Flame Thrower they can use just as well as a Master Commando.

If the Devs were to consider making the LP a Commando only weapon, of course we'd push for higher numbers in speed and accuracy...or to compensate, higher power on the LP via their specials...The Devs make it a point to justify low speed and accuracy with higher damage rates...So if we were to get low speed and accuracy on our LP, then the specials for the LP would have to be high on damage to balance. Of course the Devs aren't always this logicial, but if you ask them why we have such low speed and accuracy, they'll tell you that it's because of our power...We would possibly end up with the same accuracy/speed levels as the FT and the HAR for the LP, but maybe we'd get power to compensate, otherwise we'd have an arguement for higher mod levels.

Your right, if they want to spend the points...they earned the right to use the weapon...but that doesn't mean they earned the right to use it better then us...Yes...giving us more pistol skill mods would compensate possibly, but we aren't going to get much...maybe the same amounts that BH gets...the Pistoleer would still be better...Why do people complain that a Flame4 Commando is just as good as a Master Commando? Why do people feel Master Commando should be any better? This is the reason why I and many other Commandos feel we should be better with our LP then any other profession. The only logical way we will ever possibly be better with the LP then any other profession is if it becomes our own weapon...

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Xix13

Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:20 am

#34

This is very good. I'd heartily endorse shipping it.

For the future, since the current fad in PvP is stun damage, how about stun grenades, i.e., grenades that do stun damage?

Number one question on my list is always WHY am I forced to waste all those skill points on Unarmed 4??? I'd like to use a stim, and I'd like to harvest what I kill. I'd also like a 3rd master that ISN'T kung fu fighting. This is Star Wars, sci fi, spaceships and stuf. I wanna fight with sci fi weapons, not swords and fists.

Message Edited by Xix13 on 04-06-2004 05:20 AM

-- Xixor (FS Master Doc/Master Pistoleer -- CANCELLED) "I know what you're thinking: Why, oh why, didn't I take the BLUE pill?"
-- Xixasaurus (Padawanasaurus/Privateer) "Green is Good"
-- Xixette (12pt-Master Artisan/12pt-Master DE/12pt-Master WS) "Think Pink!"
-- Xixell (FS Master Pikeman/Master Swordsman/Rebel Pilot) -- "Anybody for some ants?"
-- Xixdoggie Dawg (Master Rifledogg/Master Ranger) "Woof"
-- XixTheFish (12-pt Master Chef)

ChilastraBH

Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:16 am

#35

look good to me

Daker-Naritus

Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:57 am

#36

Xix13 wrote:

For the future, since the current fad in PvP is stun damage, how about stun grenades, i.e., grenades that do stun damage?

I whole heartedly agree with this....stun damage grenades would be awesome!

Plasmaboy

Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:31 am

#37

Question 1 looks good but I think I have worked out why the HAR has no AP. They have chucked into the same boat as the flamethrower, what good streams of acid do to armour???? I think they got lazy and did a carbon copy but made a couple of changes so we might not notice.

Question 2 is good also but I think increasing range is a bit too much. Think wording it as change of accuarcy mods might work better basically have ideal range out of blast area also ask about indoor use as well since I don;t think it would be unreasonable. Would like to see the grenades become like mini expenable hvy weapons i.e use grenades indoors as well as outdoors as you can only use the expendable hvy weapons outdoors.

Question 3 to get the HAR specials combined with the Flamer tree is asking for alot since no other profession has double specials in one tree. Getting it replaced on the other had is alot better idea. The HAR is not a viable weapon and in it's current state you would only use in PvP maybe. Also LP specialscould be justified to be placed into either the Feild tactics tree or even the hvy weapon tree and have "dirty tricks" in it's own tree. I belive a couple of the advance professions have specials in three of the 4 trees.

Question 4 Think you should not bother tip toeing around what you want to say and say it. Two questions come to mind"What changes will we be getting in this Combat Balance?" or "Will our other weapons recive changes to them during the Combat Balance?" Which can get answers of ayes, no or maybe

Question5 As it stands I thinkwe would lose some of our versitility. Yeah Master Pistoleer can dabble in Commando but some who has Mastered both proffessions should be better than the dabbler. Think this needs to be reworded to "WIll we gain additional pistol mods due to the fact we have a Proffession specific pistol?" As from memory the BH Pistol tree includes pistol mods, which you could include in the question as a BH can still get 7 boxes of Pistoleer if he wanted too.

Question 6 This has always bothered me in the past but I think asI have seen the game unfold I now think we should get a "bonus" style/s since we have had to go Brawler. Defintly a pure defence type of style for sure either posture change or blind/stun.

Question 7 Nice question, I want a Geo Sonic FT

Question 8 Yep another great question. Would like to see all the expendable weapon stay as Hvy wepon and the HAR, FT and grenades get their own skill tapes.

Question 9 Good question but I think it need to be reworded. What you saying is pure GCW and I know that alot ofthe new mobs that are coming out(the Corvette dungeon) alot of these mobs have blastweaknesses and high armour and who needs a Commando when you can have other guys who cando our job. So these examples should be included into the question.

Question 10 Hmm not sure about this one as it can be thrown right back at us or even ignored. Because on paper the Master Commando box gets Alot of mods and two cone specials which is not too shabby really. They have already given us a bone on this one when they did some tweaking what you are really saying is that you want us to get more mods on the flamer which has become our primary weapon due to the fact it is such a superior weapon compared to the others. I think you should change this one to something else as I think it will get looked over way to easily. Leave it for for another day.

Overall good questions and I have not cringed once at these proposals, which means I am getting soft or I have seen what other professions can do nowadays

"This class MUST have balance and MUST have penalties......" Wolve44

Oback

Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:36 am

#38

i like this list so far, i especially like the question about new conent, you can never, never add enough content! combining acid/flame into one tree and giving us another weopon is a great idea, we need to push for this. maybe an heavy assualt rifle or a grenade launcher

pikesman

master commando

Rebel till the end

DECarbineer

Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:01 am

#39

for 9) Pretty much every other proffession can do more damage to heaviely armored targets then commando. RL and granates should do much more damage to a ATST or turret in a given time.

Ifrin the former mon cal rifleman now most fishy jedi on the server

Commando Archive

Thread: 10 Questions For Devs -- Updated 4/07/04