Commando Archive

Thread: No More Time...LordS We Need TH Here NOW!!! CRITICAL...TAKE A STAND!!!

Pigbrane
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:42 am
#27



WookieOgre wrote:


garvin wrote:

You almost have to laugh...

As Commando's our FT is our "one trick pony"...and they just shot our pony...




lol, at least you havent lost you sense of humor. That is until the devs nerf that too.


pfft, they didn't shoot it, they tied us up, and set it and /flamesingle2'd it.







IM BACK!!!! MMMMM Sandwhichylicous.....Peebee AndJay




Jazuhl
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:42 am
#28



garvin wrote:
OL>
  • DoTs will no longer stack...in essence we can't stack our flame DoTs, but we can still use specials...Our one working weapon is being scaled way back on the damage is is capable of.
  • FlameOut, created by Master Chef's (at least it is currently) will prevent 85% of our Flame Damage for the first 3 specials we connect (not counting specials we miss)...do they even remember we have a delay on specials? (I was just hoping for a DoT out once a minute at most...not this extreme)
  • ATSTs will take less damage from our Specials...Why is this...aren't we meant to be the first line of defense against these beasts? Why are our specials being discounted against them?





  • Stacking DoTs NERF - Personally, I would have just had resists apply to DoTs, but we'll see how this works out. I think most people agree something had to be done about our DoTs. We love posting stats showing how low our DPS is compared to other professions, but those statistics are always against things with zero resistances. Against all the high level content that has 90% resists, we outdamage other professions by a ridiculous amount because the resists don't affect our DoTs. I personally have been in battles where I inflicted more damage than my five other guildmates (who are all in elite combat professions) combined. Sorry, that's just sick. I don't know that this is the best solution, but I'm willing to see how it plays out on Test Center. On the bright side, I've heard (but don't know for certain) that different people will be able to apply the same DoT to a target. This means having more than one Commando in a group wouldn't be completely pointless (as it is now) because both could apply a FlameSingle2 DoT.

    FlameOut - You make it sound like this is specific to flamethrowers. If the opponent gets shot three times by a CDEF pistol, the effect is gone and they will be unable to eat any more food for an hour.

    AT-STs - The most effective weapon against an AT-ST should be the rocket launcher, not the flamethrower. This is a step in the right direction.

    I not ready to pass judgement on the changes yet, but I think there is potential in them. They will significantly impact our PvE abilities, but I think that is justified. I don't think it will make much difference in PvP since, from my experience, you rarely get to apply different types of burns (then again, I play a wookiee so I don't last long after I get that first special off).

    -Jazuhl
    Master Commando
    Jeren_Sehn
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:02 pm
    #29

    I have no idea whwre anyone got a 2.3 speed flamer, as that just doesn't seem possible using the resources on Chilastra, unless you got uber-Krayt tissue to enhance the Blaster Power Handlers.


    Using my uber- 3.0 speed flamethrower, though, it takes me about 6 seconds to fire Flame Single 2, usually landing a base 6000 damage in PvE (and because of the 75% damage reduction is only 1500 in PvP). Against a flameout using target (and at least intially, every PvPer will be a Flameout using target) that would be only 225. Counting in the fact that everyone wears composite sromor for PvP (and assuming my hypothetical target has rekatively crappy 50% heat resistant armor), I believe that reduces me down to about 56.25 damage (a 50% loss to the heat resist and a 50% loss for using an AP0 weapon against an AR1 target) per shot. That's a whopping 9.375 damage per second. (Assuming I hit, as we are also the least accurate combat class in the game).


    Sure, there's a DoT, but the fire extingishers will take care of that.


    If a dev can possibly explain why a Commando should ever take part in PvP of any kind in light of these changes, I will be mightily impressed. And since there is no interesting contect to this game apart from PvP, that raises some problems for me.


    Congratulations to the devs, no one will ever again claim that commandos are one-trick ponies, because they've taken away that trick.






    (gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

    (ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg8WX
    nnn][[[[[[[[[[nng)
    garvin
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:11 pm
    #30

    FlameOut - You make it sound like this is specific to flamethrowers. If the opponent gets shot three times by a CDEF pistol, the effect is gone and they will be unable to eat any more food for an hour.


    This is what I've been wondering about...but if you read the various posts in the chef forum and other places, most say that in actuality it will be specific towards "Heat" or "Burn"damage...not all types of damage....Which is one of the main reasons I want to see a Dev give us a verdict ASAP...which is it?

    AT-STs - The most effective weapon against an AT-ST should be the rocket launcher, not the flamethrower. This is a step in the right direction.


    Again...then we need a Dev to come and tell us how they are improving the RL...right now I rarely ever use my Rocket Launcher because 1) It has crappy accuracy.... 2) It's hard for a WS to make, resources are rare so they are hard to find and typically expensive to make...


    If it's suppose to be our MAIN weapon for offense against an AT-ST, why should it be so difficult to make and so limited? If we average many 2 out of 3 shots actually connecting (on a very good day) that's still around 1 to 2K in credits per shot based on average street price of the RL...


    They need to make the RL buildable with generic resources and if possible less difficult for WS's....I remember a time where on my server one of the needed resources was unavailable...hence no RL could be made...how long before we see that again? What will we use then to take them out...Our good looks?

    I not ready to pass judgement on the changes yet, but I think there is potential in them. They will significantly impact our PvE abilities, but I think that is justified. I don't think it will make much difference in PvP since, from my experience, you rarely get to apply different types of burns (then again, I play a wookiee so I don't last long after I get that first special off).


    If you've been around a longtime, answer this...how long does it take the Dev's to fix something they have broken? Should we take a pro-active or post-active approach when we see something that could seriously break our profession...You don't have answers, you have assumptions...so do I for that matter...that's the reason I am demanding responses...to turn assumptions into facts...I want the facts!!!


    I don't want to wait for a fix...I want to make sure things don't get broken in the first place...




    Garvin Lansdowne
    Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

    Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

    ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

    Jazuhl
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:32 pm
    #31


    garvin wrote:

    If you've been around a longtime, answer this...how long does it take the Dev's to fix something they have broken? Should we take a pro-active or post-active approach when we see something that could seriously break our profession...You don't have answers, you have assumptions...so do I for that matter...that's the reason I am demanding responses...to turn assumptions into facts...I want the facts!!!

    I don't want to wait for a fix...I want to make sure things don't get broken in the first place...



    Garvin,

    YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE FACTS!

    All kidding aside, you are preaching to the choir. In addition to being a Commando, I'm also a Chef. I've suffered through two class breaking bugs (one that made food stop working after 2-3 uses, another that essentially made food poisonous), both took about two months to fix.

    I'm all for answers, but I think calling this patch the "Commando Killer" is a bit extreme. I'm guessing you wrote it in the heat of passion. Are you, by chance, a Howard Dean supporter? (political joke)

    Anyway, I agree this might be a good time to push our other issues. If they are going to nerf the FT they really should give us -something- to compensate.

    -Jazuhl
    Master Commando
    AvaroT
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:15 pm
    #32






    TechnoHic wrote:

    And combat medics should have that instead of such potent diseases. They are mostly medic after all and less combat.





    Umm, what is your basis for saying that? The class is called COMBAT medic. Sounds like that's just the way you want it to be, rather than what it actually is.


    If you guys think your class is so broken, why play it? Hell, why play the game at all. All I know is, the second I get hit by a flame dot, that's it for me unless i can find water. Hundreds of players knew this months ago, and all flocked to Commando. So if you don't think it's too powerful, you're on crack. You also need to realize, that no one who masters a single class is gonna be worth crap in PVP. Get yourself a decent template and you won't have anything to whine about.



    ____________________________________________________
    Tekhap Ybrae: RIP
    Avaro Trimihow: Back For More

    "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
    TechnoHic
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:24 pm
    #33






    AvaroT wrote:





    TechnoHic wrote:

    And combat medics should have that instead of such potent diseases. They are mostly medic after all and less combat.





    Umm, what is your basis for saying that? The class is called COMBAT medic. Sounds like that's just the way you want it to be, rather than what it actually is.


    If you guys think your class is so broken, why play it? Hell, why play the game at all. All I know is, the second I get hit by a flame dot, that's it for me unless i can find water. Hundreds of players knew this months ago, and all flocked to Commando. So if you don't think it's too powerful, you're on crack. You also need to realize, that no one who masters a single class is gonna be worth crap in PVP. Get yourself a decent template and you won't have anything to whine about.







    Umm lets see. Master medic with one line of a combat skill. Sounds to me like healing in the field should be the emphasis.


    Ok, I know RL is not SWG but thats good for things that just would kill the game so lets look at real life "combat medics" just fora second. Do you see them throwing diseases around? no Do they use guns? yes to defend themselves. Why are they there? To heal people in the middle of combat and not in the ful sense of what a doctor does either.


    Whatever. Im not going to sit and swing a nerf-bat around cause really, I dont care if you disease the **edit** out of people. What I do care is that anyone with medic can heal in the middle of combat. And to be fair, if they take that away, buffs seriously need toned down. It should be an aid, but not tip the scales on their ear to travel around unbuffed. Its like SOE wants us all to be spice and drug attics.




    CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE
    CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE
    CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE
    CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE
    CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE
    Elder Commando
    Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader
    Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >
    EcadMistflier
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:27 pm
    #34



    I chose to move on and do my holo hunt and now my holo is silent. I had every intention of moving back to the Commando line but now all bets are off. Frankly I believe that is exactly what the devs want. From where I am standing the class seems to be too much trouble for the devs and the only attention it ever gets seems to be negative.

    In the "concepts" forum TH has yet another useless "what is the commando" thread with the expressed intent of taking "suggestions" until April.

    APRIL !

    At which point they will take the suggestions, throw them in the air, and then start another suggestion thread.

    I for one am going to keep my Master Tk status and work the pistorleer line and get some artisan back so I can do my surveying...heck I may just become a Master Architect and build stuff for sale for a while.

    I have concluded that the Commando line is long overdue for definition and it is not going to be coming any time soon.



    Ecad Mistflier
    Force Wielder and Old School Disturber of the Peace
    :: Ex Master Smuggler :: DEC 15 = BYE BYE SoE :: Ex SWG Jedi ::

    "There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."
    Frank Zappa
    someguyonline
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:27 pm
    #35

    Garvin's request is not unfair. Thunderheart asked us for issues and promised to get us responses. He has not delivered nor has he even given any indication why. But he sure has the time to push other people's suggestions for our profession.


    What kind of crap is that? How are we supposed to feel good about the direction of our profession? How are we supposed to feel encouraged to ever give feedback again? How are we supposed to feel encouraged to stick out the problems with our profession when no indication is given that the problems will be fixed and more nerfs just keep coming without ever saying a word to us?


    One of the things that I think turns people off to the forums is all the whining... but it seems that the Devs only respond to loud and continuous cries. To be honest with you, the Commando forum isn't anywhere near the other forums in terms of "bitching" and "moaning". Although we've had our fair share and even lost Ivoni, we just don't complain as much.


    Why is there not as much complaining from the Commandos as the other professions? Because we get ignored to the point of people just quitting.
    garvin
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:28 pm
    #36

    If you guys think your class is so broken, why play it? Hell, why play the game at all. All I know is, the second I get hit by a flame dot, that's it for me unless i can find water. Hundreds of players knew this months ago, and all flocked to Commando. So if you don't think it's too powerful, you're on crack. You also need to realize, that no one who masters a single class is gonna be worth crap in PVP. Get yourself a decent template and you won't have anything to whine about.


    Said like a player who has never been a Commando and someone who missed the whole point...Look up...that's a clue flying over your head...


    Are you the type of person who runs out and buys a new car because a tire blew on the old one? Instead of abandoning our choosen profession, some of us would like to see it fixed...gosh golly, what a novel idea....Are there actually people in a game who want to see things fixed rather then "not play at all"? We are striving for changes and fixes because we WANT TO PLAY!!!


    It's not about a "decent template"...it's about a balanced profession...a player should be able to play his choosen profession without having everything about it broken or NERF'd...Ever heard the term "Fix what's broken at home before you go out and try to fix the world"? We are trying to fix our home...


    Our DoT hasn't changed recently...so this "Hundreds of players knew this and months ago, and all flocked to Commando" crap is just that...crap...We saw an alrege influx of new commandos, mostly Flame Dabblers, when they removed the 2.5x Multiplier...otherwise Dabblers and Commando's have been there since we got our first fix many months back...


    And if you have such a fantastic templete, why in the hell would you ever get "hit by a flame DoT"? Obviously you're an expert, so of course you know you can easily avoid a Flame DoT by staying more then 16m from a Commando...and of course your great template would give you ranged kiting ability for just such an occasion as to face a Commando...So either you've never be DoT'd or you have no business even making a Post here...


    Go play in your own forum...nobody wants you here...



    Garvin Lansdowne
    Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

    Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

    ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

    someguyonline
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:34 pm
    #37






    garvin wrote:


    Go play in your own forum...nobody wants you here...






    /agreed.
    garvin
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:39 pm
    #38

    So if you don't think it's too powerful, you're on crack.

    And to add...Have you ever heard of the term "balance"?


    Yes it's powerful, but look at the restrictions...there are more restrictions on our powerful DoT then any other DoT in the game...that's why it's more powerful...again...a clue...grab it while you can:


    1) 16 restricted range.

    2) Natural, unlimited way that anyone, no matter what level or profession can put out the DoT (water).

    3) Longer delay inbetween Flame DoT specials the other DoTs.

    4) Worse Accuracy with our DoT then any other profession with a DoT.

    5) We cost more Skill pts then most professions with DoTs (with the exception of Combat Medic).

    6) It is the only set of working specials we have...


    All of those restrictions taken into account makes our Flame Specials look pretty weak when compared to other professions out there...maybe instead of bringing us "in-line" with other professions, other professions should be brough in-line with use by getting our restrictions...I'd take a weaker Flame DoT if every profession with DoT capability could only use it 16m or less...and there was a natural way to put them out...and they had crappy accuracy...oh and they had NO OTHER SPECIALS...seems pretty fair...it's all about balance right?




    Garvin Lansdowne
    Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie

    Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith

    ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

    Ryubushi
    Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:39 pm
    #39

    ...


    I'd say I can't believe it, but I'd be lying my scaley red butt off.


    I became a commando because it was what I wanted to do, not because of some mystic rubix cube. I enjoy the profession, I love it, but...


    I don't know if I'll be able to stick with it after all the upcoming nerfs. When my guild goes out in PvP raids, I feel pretty useless as it is. My attacks are slower and have limited ranged, and my accuracy with everything pretty much sucks. Looks like the all-powerful devs have decided that such things mean we're overpowered.


    Funny how we're overpowered, but a combat medic that can poison us from 60 meters away is fine. How a pistoleer/fencer with a +200 something dodge is just fine. How a TKM canone-hit KD and dizzy methrough a wall, while I can't shoot her because she's out of sight is fine. And what about how a MCH can go through a PvP battle with his trusty level 70 kimogila with about 12k ham? Nope, everyone else is fine, and we're overpowered...


    I'd already begun using my remaining skill points to play around, looking for a decent template, before I even read this thread. It looks now like I should give some serious thought into recovering my skillpoints from Commando and looking into one of these other professions.



    Thanks, TH. Thanks, Devs. Thanks for killing our profession. Thanks for focusing soley on us and our all-powerful ability to lie on our backs. Thanks for always taking the time to listen to every fool on every other thread that even mentions commandos being overpowered, that we need a nerf. Thanks for ignoring us, who, even though we are actually members of the accused profession, can't possibly have any input or opinions that matter.


    LordS, I'm with garvin here, all the way. I challenge you to step up to the plate and fight this for us. Do whatever it takes. Don't let the devs kill us off. Don't let them ignore us any longer. Find a way to make them listen, to stop this madness. Don't agree to let this crap happen because they offer a false promise of improvements later. If you have to, agree to maybe have this patch hit us at a later date, AFTER everything else we have has been fixed so that we won't be totally useless.


    I'll be watching and waiting to see what happens, but experience around here has taught me to not bother getting my hopes up for anything.






    ***Valcyn - Lt. Colonel Ryubushi [ONE] of the Empire (the Tank Maniac); Career Master Commando, Master Carbineer, and extremely Anti-NGE.
    ***Eclipse - Ryushidosha, freelancer; Scaley Master Carbineer, ranger, merc for hire, and general sociopath...that despises the NGE.
    ***StarSider - Ja'ahn Woo [PYRO] of the Alliance - The Galaxy's first Jawa commando/carbineer...who also hates the NGE.

    People like me...because I force them to...with violence!

    Page 3 of 5