Commando Archive

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DocSavag wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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garvin wrote:

This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.

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*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?

*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM

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Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.

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But commandos will be able to use the same rifle I do without having to be a rifleman right? I presume that BH's will ahve their own special weaopons too. So is it only the "vanilla" combat elites that get really nerfed by this change? Are we the only ones whose skill boxes look more and more like ghost towns?

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Here is the problem with comparing Commandos to any other profession...Do Rifleman and BH's have their own Unique specials or are they built into their weapons? Commandos CREATE thier unique specials via inate abilities built into our weapons...Riflman and BH's have specials that have effects ON their weapons, not VIA their weapons...

I can't pick up a Rifle from Rifleman, use a Marksman special, and have the same effect as a elite Rifleman special...But without this Commando restriction, any Rifleman could pick up an FT, and be able to do a Flame Specail (adding the DoT and AOE effect) using ANY ranged special.

So for Commandos it makes sense...for everyone else, I have a bad feeling about this, but I'm willing to give it a chance...and I have a feeling that not every Commando weapon will be "skill box restricted"...only those weapons that "enhance" specials to covert them into Commando unique specials will be restricted...For all we know, a weapon like the Proton Rifle could be NOT skill box restricted, but instead a Master Level weapon that will be now available to Rifleman (and how happy would that make the Rifleman Community?)

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Ko-aIri wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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garvin wrote:

This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.

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*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?

*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM

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Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.

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Sorry to hijack, but Helios:

What steps will be taken to insure that profession identity is not compromised? Obviously, this works great for commando, but there are many iconic weapons for other professions that should be available for only those professions, including some from the CU:

Bounty Hunter: Light Lightning Cannon, Scatter Pistol
Rifleman: Berserker Rifle, T-21 Rifle
Pistoleer: Geonosian Sonic Blaster, DE-10
TKA: Massassi Knuckler, Black Sun Knuckler
Carbineer: Elite Carbine, Nym Slugthrower
Swordsman: Power Hammer, Scythe
Combat Medic: Alliance Disruptor
Squad Leader: Intimidator Pistol

Etc, etc. Will these unique weapons be preserved to their professions? Otherwise, what is the point to having seperate combat professions?

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This was sort of answered previously in another thread I believe...Professions will still have mods that make them use those weapons BEST...A Fencer, for example, picking up a T21 will (1) lack the proper skill mods to use the weapon with any type of accuracy or speed & (2) lack valid specials to truely utilize this weapon (Melee specials only work with Melee weapons and same for Ranged weapons with Ranged specials)...A Fencer using a Swordsman weapon, will be able to do some damage, but not as much as a Swordsman using that same weapon...The Swordsman would have greater speed &accuracy since his 2H weapon would be looking for specific 2H mods to that make it more useful.

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Ko-aIri wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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garvin wrote:

This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.

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*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?

*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM

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Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.

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Sorry to hijack, but Helios:

What steps will be taken to insure that profession identity is not compromised? Obviously, this works great for commando, but there are many iconic weapons for other professions that should be available for only those professions, including some from the CU:

Bounty Hunter: Light Lightning Cannon, Scatter Pistol
Rifleman: Berserker Rifle, T-21 Rifle
Pistoleer: Geonosian Sonic Blaster, DE-10
TKA: Massassi Knuckler, Black Sun Knuckler
Carbineer: Elite Carbine, Nym Slugthrower
Swordsman: Power Hammer, Scythe
Combat Medic: Alliance Disruptor
Squad Leader: Intimidator Pistol

Etc, etc. Will these unique weapons be preserved to their professions? Otherwise, what is the point to having seperate combat professions?

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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garvin wrote:

This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.

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*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?

*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM

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Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.

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But commandos will be able to use the same rifle I do without having to be a rifleman right? I presume that BH's will ahve their own special weaopons too. So is it only the "vanilla" combat elites that get really nerfed by this change? Are we the only ones whose skill boxes look more and more like ghost towns?

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For all intents and purposes, the Commando weapons are the "specials" for that profession. If Commando got specials like all other professions, the commando weapons would be treated like all other weapons. There are also some BH weapons that have skill box requirements, much like all other professions. As mentioned though, the skillbox requirement bit of the certification system is currently broken so you can't see any of that right now.

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The point is that riflemen use rifles. That is what we do. Now we are just one of many professions that can use the SAME rifles. It rips away our identity. We are no less defined by that than commandos are by their use of heavy weapons. Prior to yesterday leveling a profession was a combination of getting new skills and new weapon certs. Now mostly it is looking at empty boxes that give you +5 Ranged Accuracy (weeee). This decision makes the game less fun and more complex.

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gera wrote:

What's the point of having certified for a weapon then Helios?

Let's say I'm Fencer, what will prevent me to use T21 which was master rifleman weapon to use it.. Where was riflemen's sin in that thing ?

So also Jedi can use Power Hammer ?

Message Edited by gera on 04-14-2005 10:33 AM

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Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.

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Helios_SOE wrote:
There are lots of weapons that have skillbox requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. The emphasis for skillbox bound weapons is on iconic or profession defining weapons. All other weapons will be available to all others with the appropriate combat level. This will allow you to more easily pick up more professions using a weapon that is closer to your skill level (if you've already advanced in a different combat profession).

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Thanks for the reply, I hope this works out for the best.

And *****, 2 thumbs up, over 120 top ten lists for you Helios... your communication is appreciated more than you will ever realize.

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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gera wrote:

What's the point of having certified for a weapon then Helios?

Let's say I'm Fencer, what will prevent me to use T21 which was master rifleman weapon to use it.. Where was riflemen's sin in that thing ?

So also Jedi can use Power Hammer ?

Message Edited by gera on 04-14-2005 10:33 AM

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Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.

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I guess the problem I have with it is that currently you can level one profession better than the next guy because you have a higher level from another profession so you get a better weapon than he does. I am struggling to level rifle after the weapon I used the night before last got removed from my level by this change. Someone who invests a few boxes into pistols will be using the E-11 before I will.. Thats messed up. Its also messed up that my level 14 carbine does more damage using sniper shot than my level 14 spraystick. (And the fact that the first novice level rifle is a freaking sprakstick is another whole topic)

I understand this isn't the final list but there are so many issues with this idea.

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DocSavag wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

For all intents and purposes, the Commando weapons are the "specials" for that profession. If Commando got specials like all other professions, the commando weapons would be treated like all other weapons. There are also some BH weapons that have skill box requirements, much like all other professions. As mentioned though, the skillbox requirement bit of the certification system is currently broken so you can't see any of that right now.

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The point is that riflemen use rifles. That is what we do. Now we are just one of many professions that can use the SAME rifles. It rips away our identity. We are no less defined by that than commandos are by their use of heavy weapons. Prior to yesterday leveling a profession was a combination of getting new skills and new weapon certs. Now mostly it is looking at empty boxes that give you +5 Ranged Accuracy (weeee). This decision makes the game less fun and more complex.

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Don't forget that Rifleman are a defined by both their Specials and their Weapons...Commandos JUST have our weapons and their built in effects on other profession's abilities. So yes...Commandos are different...more deserving to be exempt? I'd have to say yes...

I agree that everyone (of a high enough level)having access to most weapons would make this game less fun, but as Helios recently reported, many weapons will still be "skill box restricted" beyond just Commando weapons...the T21 for example (which makes me now hope the Proton Rifle is as well...fair trade off) will be skill box restricted.

Maybe we all need to redefine what exactly creates our indentiy post CU...

the issue that a novice commando isn't the CL required to equip our novice weapons hasn't been addressed. If skill box certification and CL are required, why say someone can use a weapon at this point, but then not let them if they haven't dabbled enough elsewhere to have a high CL.

Basically, why should a novice commando need to pick up other combat skills to force up my CL to use the launcher pistol. I understand it's not just a CL cert, but also a skillbox cert, but my CL when getting that skillbox is too low to use it.

At least make it so there is a distinct difference between melee and ranged weapons (so a level 60 Master Swordsman/Master Fencer doesn't know how to use high-end/mid-range rifles, for example, but he can use high-end/mid-range pikes or knucklers)...