Commando Archive
Thread: Issues With the Heavy Acid Rifle
Hellshot
Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:05 pm
#27
You need to look at these guns in the context of their damage and our other weapons. First, the flamethrower should be AP0 because its a ball of fire, not a projectile, and therefore cannot pierce armor. Second, it provides an unmatched DOT that can be used as an opening attack and combined with attacks using the launcher pistol (bleeds and targeted shot). With regards to people who say that the HAR should be AP2, the more I think about this, the less I agree. Right now, you can do about 5-6k of damage with a good damage sliced HAR using acidsingle2. That is twice the max damage of a acid launcher, our consumable AP2 weapon. If you give the HAR the same AP as this weapon, everyone would use the HAR and then we would complain about the acid launcher, saying that it needs to be bumped up in damage and ap (which it should anyway, but thats another story). I think giving the HAR AP1 would make it useful for most situations, while reserving the integrity of our consumables. Assuming they become more craftable and the mods are tweaked.
ElRapoSuave wrote:
As commandos, we are lucky if we even get the short end of the stick.
The HAR should be better than the LLC. Bounty hunters are only dabblers in heavy weapons. We are the real deal.
I think the flame thrower should have AP1...and the HAR should have AP2.
SpecWar1
Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:53 am
#28
Please give us the armor peircing, accuracy, speed and DOT damage. Or give us an assult rifle that can do damage. I love the FLAME THROWER but that is the only weapon that is worth it and I am starting to feel that if it werent for CONE FLAME 2 I wouldnt be a master commando and drop everything else and just use the flame thrower tree only. Im sure alot of people out there feel the same way. I am in total agreement in this situation that the Acid Rifle is a total waste of resource to make, and waste of inventory space and wast of time and money training in it in its current state.
Gernades and Special Heavy Weapons are another issue entirly with the current situations. But i will stick to the subject...
SpecWar1
Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:07 am
#29
I saw someone suggest for an assult rifle? I think this would be the best bet. Turn this HAR into an assult rifle with its very own specials!!! A main weapon. Flame thrower should not be our main weapon but a back up! Also needs armor peircing, we currently have no real good armor peircing weapons and the rocket launchers for what its worth is a joke.
Skeptic666
Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:13 am
#30
HellShot you do realize you suck right? RIght now The BH from what I understand have not taken a Fire Dot nerf. Ive seen the BH torso shot out burn my Tics on more then one occasion so PFFFTTTT
ANd I think we should get our old dot back!
Hellshot
Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:18 am
#31
Skeptic666 wrote:
HellShot you do realize you suck right? RIght now The BH from what I understand have not taken a Fire Dot nerf. Ive seen the BH torso shot out burn my Tics on more then one occasion so PFFFTTTT
ANd I think we should get our old dot back!
OK, I dont know what brought this statement on, so I am going to assume its meant as humor and move on. I can't comment on torso shot, but I can ask around on TC tonight if this is true or not. If it is, it will get bugged. All I wanted to point out above is that giving the HAR more than AP1 will make it a seriously unbalanced weapon and render the acid stream launcher obsolete, which does no one any good in the long run. I do think our heavy weapons need to be revamped.
They all need to have the same speed and accuarcy modifiers,be AP3, be more readily craftable or rechargeable, and have at least 2-3 times the current damage. Right now I can out damage an acid stream launcherwith my HAR using specials, though at the cost of a long time delay. Part of the reason for this is that AP1-3vs AP0 is bugged (you dont get the appropriate damage multiplier), but the other part of is thatheavy weaponshave a fixed damage range with no specials, where as the HAR and FT get specials that increase their damage 10 and 6 fold. Even if the acid launcher was AP3 and the damage mods worked, it would only do 6-8k damage against an AP0 target, which is the same as what I can get using my HAR without spending 1k per shot. If the damage range of consumable heavy weapons was 3-9k, it would make them far more usefull, as they would justify their present cost, dedication of an entire line, and their delay time.
AMDmaster
Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:57 am
#32
I'm not an Commando yet, but i plan on becoming one just cause i'm fond of the profession. I've always heard the issues about the HAR, and thought i'd add my idea.
I think a truly lethal implementation of the HAR outside of AP2, would be an Armor Effectiveness DOT. Of course this would render some armors useless or near useless over time. A percentage drop of say 5%-10% per tick over a 20-40 sec duration
Even special acid resistent armor would be rendered into bad shape over time, just slower than most armors.
Just adding what i think could make a useless weapon sumthing to fear.
Xinn
Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:38 am
#33
It's Publish freaking 8 and the HAR stills sucks. It is worthless and I really hate having to waste skill points on it so I can hold Master Commando. Either remove the skill tree and replace it with something else, or make the HAR worth using (DOT specials, AP, etc.)...otherwise all a Commando will ever be good for is torching stuff and hitting the occasional AT-ST with rocket launchers, which, by the way, don't do nearly enough damage for what it takes to build them...but that's a whole other post in itself.
Xinn Valuja - Mayor, Horizon Isle, Rori (Starsider)
Master Commando, Teras Kasi Master
Xinn Valuja - Mayor, Horizon Isle, Rori (Starsider)
Master Commando, Teras Kasi Master
NJS
Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:20 pm
#34
Thanks. Yeah I pretty much only use the HAR on AT-STs (after i set a burn first with the FT) Or at the geo lab...
jol69
Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:08 am
#35
Hellshot wrote:
You need to look at these guns in the context of their damage and our other weapons. First, the flamethrower should be AP0 because its a ball of fire, not a projectile, and therefore cannot pierce armor.
Yes, but if the flamethrower can cook what is inside the armor, that's just as good as piercing the armor, if not better. Flamethrowers make excellent anti-armor/anti-vehicle weapons in real life since they have a tendency to set off ammunition and fuel in the vehicles. Metal conducts heat reasonably well, at least it did the last time I checked. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just stating that if a weapon can destroy an armored target without piercing the armor just as well as an armor piercing weapon, then for all intents and purposes, it is armor piercing(that is, it should not be AP 0).
RazerWolf
Sat May 01, 2004 3:42 pm
#36
RL != SWG. Having the FT as high damage low AP and the HAR as lower damage high AP would be a good balance.
Andibandit
Sun May 02, 2004 2:45 pm
#37
erikAceman wrote:
Easy Fixes
Give AP3
Make them faster, by default
Give a Acid Burn Dot
Give it unique specials
ROFL HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA 
oh god that made me laugh.
SpecWar1
Mon May 03, 2004 6:12 am
#38
I agree with this statement, fire peirces armor through the seams. Think about it, if flame was shot at a person wearing armor it would penitrate the seams of the armor, burn anyone inside, then it would also choke its victim due to fire consuming the oxygen iside the armor. Painful and torturing dont you think?
jol69 wrote:
Hellshot wrote:
You need to look at these guns in the context of their damage and our other weapons. First, the flamethrower should be AP0 because its a ball of fire, not a projectile, and therefore cannot pierce armor.
Yes, but if the flamethrower can cook what is inside the armor, that's just as good as piercing the armor, if not better. Flamethrowers make excellent anti-armor/anti-vehicle weapons in real life since they have a tendency to set off ammunition and fuel in the vehicles. Metal conducts heat reasonably well, at least it did the last time I checked. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am just stating that if a weapon can destroy an armored target without piercing the armor just as well as an armor piercing weapon, then for all intents and purposes, it is armor piercing(that is, it should not be AP 0).
thepunisher286
Mon May 03, 2004 8:52 pm
#39
In all honesty, the flamethrower should be very very lethal up close. Its no longer used in modern warfare because of limited fuel that has to be carried, ethical questions it raises ( using napalm is considered a warcrime ) and it has a tendancy of possibly igniting the entire area if the wind blows too much.
BUT, this game is not about modern warfare. Its a rebelion trying to bring an empire to its knees and win freedom. In that case, flamethrowers are used, but to what extent should we have a weapon as this to be used as a main weapon? Realisticly thinking, a flamethrower in the commandos arsenal should always be 2nd choice weapon next to an assault rifle. I say 2nd hand because being more a ranged than melee proffesion ( on paper ) , we should use the flamethrower only when people get too close.
But lets forget about the Flame... the thread is about the Har. It IS the flamethrower, just acid dmg, slower , weaker, dumber, BUT pretty looking. For what reason? For the sake of having an acid weapon. But quite sadly, it fails to become usefull in any fashion when it doesnt become usable as a weapon.
If I cannot hit my target, what good is the gun? If its worse in every way than the flamethrower yet require more ham and xp, what good is the gun?
This is NOT A HARD ISSUE TO RESOLVE. The devs can take an easy way out: Make it, faster, stronger, ap2, more accurate, better, not 6 million credits, and we have a winner.
OR, they can make the commando , a... get ready... a worthy opponent in pvp. Hope I didnt say that too loud out of context or the devs might debunk this thought: Make the har exacly the same to the flame in every way imaginable, but with ap1, no dot. Take the gun that was ONCE our property ( or so i was told ) and put it into the open spot for a tree.
- I personaly would rather have the HAR turned intoa rifle - tone it down a bit, give it ap2. Basicly making it a dxr6...when you think about it. I would love to have a ranged acid rifle than a ranged energy rifle. ( why not both? )
Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 05-03-2004 08:52 PM