Commando Archive
Thread: Hello from the first(?) Test Center Commando!
I am soooooooo happy to know the Launcher Pistol will SOMEDAY give us HW xp!!! Please devs, can we get this one the live servers NOWtoo??? Please????
The ONLY Commando weapon I have been able to locate on my server (other than the launcher pistol)is the Lightening Cannon, and well since that requires HW III, even doing a dern lvl 60 mission, on Dathomir, only gives 23 HW xp for the creature (7pts. dmg per hit) and about 1500 for the lair...but you of course have to have some high powered ppl with you, so you are not killed in .05 sec. doing only 7pts dmg. By the way that 1500 for the lair SOUNDS very nice, until you try it, and realize how long it takes to kill the thing only doing 7pts of dmg a shot. Not very easy to find ppl willing to wait that long, since in the time it takes, the group could have finished the next mission. 
Lambeau,
When your shooting a target, it says 400 in the combat tab, but what number is over the mob head? do they match? this is what I'm curious about as it's the only way to see if the weapon has a better AR rating or not.
Harvydood wrote:
Lambeau,
When your shooting a target, it says 400 in the combat tab, but what number is over the mob head? do they match? this is what I'm curious about as it's the only way to see if the weapon has a better AR rating or not.
I dunno. I didn't look. I'll run a couple series of tests when I play tonight and update this thread.
Furtin wrote:
in this new patch, they also include documentation about armor ratings of weapons. All he has to do is examine the weapon
I'll post that information as well when I give the numbers.
Because they aren't only Rare on my server, they are non-existent. (Okay, there are about 10 HAR's since for 2 days we had one of the resources, but since it was Day 1 and 2, someoen had to Sample it, no machinery existed to extract it). There won't be more until the current resource shift draught of 28 days ends.
That's what Rare means. Sometimes non-existent. You are lucky enough for it to exist right now. For me, I am not that lucky.
The Dev said, in response to questions about resources wher ethe Flamethrowwer was an example, that "these" weapons are intended to be rare.
That the LP is is becoming a HW, we now know that we are intended to use the LP nightly. If we weren't, it would still be Pistol exp.
My assumption the BR is going to wokr out the same is only based on parallels. The BH gets a pistol and Carbine, makes sense we'd get a pistol and Rifle. And if one provides HW, so should the other.
But, the question comes down to, which weapons was the Dev intending to be Rare and which not rare? He had the chance to say the Ft wouldn't be rare, but he declined to say it. That indicates to me that the Ft was, at that time, intended to be rare. That means it's not a valid assumption to think the ASL will not be rare either.
The rarity of weapons is directly linked to the rarity of their resource components. A weapon with 1 rare resource is rarer than one with none. A weapon with 2 rarer than one with 1. And so on.
Our weapons have 3 or even 4 rare resources. That matches or exceeds specialty weapons like the T21 Rifle. The LLC for BH's only has 2. The only exception for us is the LP, which I believe is 1. (I don't have BR schematics to check.)
That means, by looking at resource rarity, our nightly weapons will be LP and maybe the BR. All assumptions aside, the direct mathematical relationship between resource rarity and manufacturability ensures that all Commando weapons, save only the LP, will be rare.
There is nothing obvious in this Profession. There is great inconsistency in the current way this class is constructed. ANything anyone thinks is obvious, will not be, because all of these obvious things are inconsistent.
I don't think the weapon schematics can remain as they are. I don't think the skill tree can either. I don't think the basic assumptions of the construction of this profession are compatible.
We'll see how long it takes the Dev's to figure that out.
. keep it up man.
I am not saying the way it should be or the way I want it to be, I am say that is the way it will be.Ever tried to use a flamethrower or acid rifle with only +10 accuracy? It doesnt work. Once the launcher pistol gives hvy weaps xp it will be the only viable way to get from Novice to the first skills, unless you like killing a thousand crazed durni's to get a skill.
Kreistor wrote:
No, S_ripper, they said all heavy weapons were intended to be rare. Not just Falmethrowers (three rare resources), HAR's (at least 2), but the cannons, rockets launchers... everything is intended to be rare.
There is no stepping stone. The LP and Beam Rifle will be our regular use weapons, according to Q's implications.
As for "stepping stone", you imply a stepping stone should be weaker than regular use. That is not a valid assumption. In terms of balance, while we have been trainign those excess, redundant weapon skills in marksman and Unarmed, the Pistoleer has been becoming increasingly powerful in that one weapon... they don't waste any time training redundant skills. Every time we take up a new weapon for a new Marksman tree or Unarmed, we get weaker and do not gain in strength, only flexibility.
At the point we finish all our pre-req's (107 skill points), the Pistoleer may have Mastered their weapon.
The power of the Novice Commando should at least match that of the Pistoleer aftr the same period of time. Regardless of what our other trees look like, we have been held back, underpowered, while training those redundant skills.
Yes, a Novice Commando should be more powerful than a Novice Pistoleer. If the only weapons we are allowed on a nightly basis are LP and BR, then we must be more powerful with those weapons, not with theoretical weapons that have never existed on some servers, and are intended to be very rare.
It's a fundamental balance question. From a PvP standpoint, do you want to be unable to compete with Carbineers, Pistoleers, Riflemen, and TKA's until you have trained to Level 2 in some Commando Skill? You've been sitting back getting wiped by them from the time you make L4 in any one weapon until you achieve Master Marksman. How long should that continue?
For me, it's not 1 skill point after I train Novice COmmando. At that instant, I should be on par, or better, than they. Becuase for a long period up to that point, I have been weaker.
"There is no stepping stone. The LP and Beam Rifle will be our regular use weapons, according to Q's implications."
"As for "stepping stone", you imply a stepping stone should be weaker than regular use. That is not a valid assumption."
Its not an assumption, its obvious from my experience of REGULARLY using the flamethrower and acid rifle. Once the patch comes through from TC I highly suspect that the flamer/HAR specialswill befar more effective than the LP.
"If the only weapons we are allowed on a nightly basis are LP and BR..."
I dont know about that, but I sure as heck use my flamethrower and acid rifle on a nightly basis. Just because the resource turnovers have been unkind tosome servers the first month of release doesnt mean thatthey wont get access to the flamer/HAR. And oncethey do getaccessto these weapons, they are not going to suddenly disappear fromtheir inventory at a certain point (like the charged beam cannons and rocket launcher)and become "rare". If you look at what resources are required for the acid rifle (Kiirium Steel, Kammris Iron) MOST servers have had access to these. Nobody uses them, because the certification is broken.The resources required for making the flamethrower are no longer present (since the last turnover) on my server, so no new flamethrowers can be built unless a weaponsmith or someone else was smart enough to hoard these resources when they were available. That in no way means that my flamethrower or my acid rifle is no longer my maincommando weapon.
"It's a fundamental balance question. From a PvP standpoint, do you want to be unable to compete with Carbineers, Pistoleers, Riflemen, and TKA's until you have trained to Level 2 in some Commando Skill? You've been sitting back getting wiped by them from the time you make L4 in any one weapon until you achieve Master Marksman. How long should that continue?"
Take a look at bounty hunter, for instance. It takes mastery of two professions to get novice, and novice BH is not as powerful as a pistoleerthat hadspent the same amount of time advancing. But, BH's make up for it in gaining +10 or +20accuracy/speed per box where pistoleers gain only around +5. Commando is the same way, we only have +10 accuracy to begin with, but we gain 15 accuracy/10 speed for three of the boxes and +25/+15 for the third one. This is intended, this is not the problem. There is also the issue about the role of commando. It is not necessarily true that commandos are suppose to be as good as BH's or pistoleers at straight PVP, the Dev's have not clearly articulated what their vision of commando is. Everybody seems to have their own opinion ofwhat commando should be, the only thing we can do is try to get feedback on what the DEv's see the commando as, and then go from there.
Kreistor wrote:
A pistoleer gets to Novice Pistol having spent X hours and 35 skill points.
We get to Novice Commando having spend 3X hours and 83 skill points.
Who should do mor damage? A Novice Pistoleer using a FWG5 and Bodyshot3, or a Novice Commando using FWG5 and Bodyshot2?
Kreistor, pistoleers dont get BodyShot3 until Expert Pistol Tactics....which costs 775,000 pistol xp.
Harvydood wrote:
Lambeau,
When your shooting a target, it says 400 in the combat tab, but what number is over the mob head? do they match? this is what I'm curious about as it's the only way to see if the weapon has a better AR rating or not.
The description on the Launcher Pistol I am using says "Armor Piercing: None".
Doing a very simple test, I attacked a blue Ikopi. It's examine showed an effectivness against blast of 10%. My shot of 195 in the combat text appeared as a -175 over the mobs head. It appears that is correct, the mob has a 10% reduction (195*.1 = 19.5 rounded up to 20).
Against a capper spineflap (with no listed effectiveness) I hit for 109, 141 and 299 in the combat spam and the numbers over the mob were the same.
Against a hermit spider (10% special blast protection) I got combat spam for 148, 146, 234 and 141. The numbers over the head of the mob was 132, 130, 211 and 125. Close, but seems a tad off. I am not sure how special protection works in conjunction with effectivness. (this one had effectiveness of 5% in Kenitic, Energy and Restraint). Maybe someone can help me in understanding how this is supposed to work?
Also, if you want additional tests or questions answered, please let me know. I will do my best.
LETS GIVE A WOOT! FOR LAMBEAU!
Thanks Lambeau, We commandos appreciate the hard work. Keep those tests coming.