CUEmu - Thread Posts

Raptor2k1

Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:24 pm

"I don't think Commandos are necessarilyMasters of ranged combat. They're adapt marksmen (hence the prerequisite) but they only really shine when they use their heavy weapons and demolitons devices. At least that's how I think it should be.They should deal some heavy damage up close with flamethrowers and grenades, with enough melee defenses to be able to survive an encounter with any melee profession. On the other hand, HPBCs and Rocket Lauchers should be able to take out hard targets and players at 50m and beyond and the HAR is something for in between. But leave the true mastery of ranged combat to Riflemen or Carbineers."

Perhaps, but I think what I'm really trying to say here, that might be getting kinda muddled up, is that even with our heavy weapons, they should account for varying situations. Ie. The HARcould beour HW equivalent of a rifle, the LP would representour pistol skills, with a repeater reflecting our earlier mastery of carbines, and perhaps some weapon-butting moves to reflect our brawler prerquisite.

Just because something is a heavy weapon it doesn't mean you should be cannon fodder without support. Think of the Heavy Weapons Guy in TFC - he most certainly could stand alone, and with ease at that.

To summarize, the commando arsenal should represent both versatility, and independence. While a commando might be able to effectively fill a supporting role -they should never have to, should be quite potent, and at least as strong as other elite combat profession on their own.

While carbineers and rifleman are masters of ranged, combat, that doesn't mean they should be the only masters. Any elite profession based off of one or more tree (aside from maybe smuggler since it seems like more of a crafting/fighting hybrid right now) under the marksman line should be a master of ranged combat when a master of their profession. One of things that ticks me off the most about being a commando right now is how few the options I have are when I get out beyond 16m - and this should never be the case for someone with as in-depth experience of ranged combat as we have.

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 03-13-2004 01:26 PM

Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum

mka

Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:00 pm

#28

/agree

Jeswin Esqui - Master Smuggler - Master Commando - Master Pilot - Chimaera Galaxy

mka

Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:15 am

#29

I think making hard hitting weapons slow was just a design decision, since every weapon needs pro's and con's. Of course you could maybe implement a minigun-esque weapon, but it would cause major amounts of lag. So they rather thake, say, 5 rounds, put them into a single, more powerful shot and increase the weapon's delay accordingly.

Now, I'm not saying Commandos do not deserve a fast firing weapon. On the contrary, I think it would fit perfectly under a revamped HAR tree.

Jeswin Esqui - Master Smuggler - Master Commando - Master Pilot - Chimaera Galaxy

CerebrusTantarrris

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:32 pm

#30

ingame names, ThreeHeadeddog and Cerebrus

I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be. I am not a rifleman who uses a pikeman tag to decieve his opponents, I am not a holo grinder who wears his pikeman tag as a testimemt to the pain he has gone through grinding. I am not a pikeman who has mastered another combat proffession to support my offense, I will not degrade my pikeness in this way. I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be.

CerebrusTantarrris

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:33 pm

#31

ok a personal opinion here but this is it none the less.

When i think of classes and what they mean to me i think that anyone who is a true master ofan eliteproffession is just that, a master. Which is why i think that any master elite shoult beat commandos in a duel 1vs1. Elite proffessions are people who have taken there time to do what they do the best. They are

ingame names, ThreeHeadeddog and Cerebrus

I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be. I am not a rifleman who uses a pikeman tag to decieve his opponents, I am not a holo grinder who wears his pikeman tag as a testimemt to the pain he has gone through grinding. I am not a pikeman who has mastered another combat proffession to support my offense, I will not degrade my pikeness in this way. I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be.

CerebrusTantarrris

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:48 pm

#32

oops wasnt done yet

a commando is a jack of all trades kind of guy. This is OBVIOUS by his prerequisites. He is capable of using all ranged classes. Speed is king and without it you will die, so why should someone who uses heavy weaps be able tobeat a pistoleer/carb/rifle.

Where your strengths lie are in prolonged fights. I wouldnt be against commandos having a extra tuffness rating. I dont think any proffession should be able to survive in prolonged fights like a commando. With elite proffesions the whole point is to be able to do your damage quickly. Look at sw in general. Take smugglers for instance(in the star wars world not the game) they are an array of combat proffesions designed to quickly kill ANY opponent fast enough for them to run befor the mob get them. A commando however should be designed to be a support character. His forte(sp) is that he DOESNT need to run befor reinforcements get to him. The longer the fight lasts the better it is in his favor( this is why i liked the ft prenerf). In my oppinion commando should be opposite from other classes as in it should have all area or cone attacks with the specials being designed to attack one target. How they should change you to be good in prolonged fights and get away from your problems i dont know but i dont think that a commando is supposed to be a 1vs1 guy. If you want that do a elite proffession ALSO.

srry if my thoughts arent the most organized and in no way am i trying to be an !@# or **edit** twords commando i am on my way to becoming on as well.

ingame names, ThreeHeadeddog and Cerebrus

I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be. I am not a rifleman who uses a pikeman tag to decieve his opponents, I am not a holo grinder who wears his pikeman tag as a testimemt to the pain he has gone through grinding. I am not a pikeman who has mastered another combat proffession to support my offense, I will not degrade my pikeness in this way. I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be.

CerebrusTantarrris

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:49 pm

#33

err very sorry for all the posts my computer burped

ingame names, ThreeHeadeddog and Cerebrus

I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be. I am not a rifleman who uses a pikeman tag to decieve his opponents, I am not a holo grinder who wears his pikeman tag as a testimemt to the pain he has gone through grinding. I am not a pikeman who has mastered another combat proffession to support my offense, I will not degrade my pikeness in this way. I am a master pikeman. That is who I am and who I want to be.

SoontierFel

Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:13 am

#34

hey Raptor2k1

I'm just curious if you think commando should be a dueling class? You don't seem to be responding to that statement. You say 1 on 1 match to any profession, to me that means dueling profession. To me I just see a guy with a knife fighting a guy with a sledge hammer, if the guy with the knife is ready and they are both equally good with their weapons, I would think the guy with the knife would win seeing the guy with the sledge hammer is going to be slower. Now take that guy with the knife and have him caught off guard by the guy with the sledge hammer... no head right? Until they give you guys fast weapons I don't see why you should be all that great 1 on 1. The element of suprise should be your ally. You catch someone busy or unprepared blown up right? You're all offense no defense, so you "should" be very powerful, not saying you are, but you shouldn't be able to take a carbineer a bh a pistoleer, in my opinion unless you catch them off guard, b/c you get knocked down. Just my thoughts and everyone feel free to pick whatever you don't like about this and strictly comment on that and not answer my question should commando be a dueling class

JediJed

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:32 am

#35

I want, no NEED to know when the devs are going to rebalance / fix the commando.

Are we talking days, weeks, months or years .... or is this as good as we get ?

What publish are the commandos going to be worked on ?

The simple reason is Master Commando is simply poor beyond all shadow of doubt, and I want to know should I drop the profession and become a more combat efficent profession like an Artisan or should I hold out hope that the profession will be fixed in the reasonable future ( up to two months max ).

JediJed

Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:09 am

#36

I disagree withsome people on this board, I do think that a Commando should be the best all round combat class about. It is thehighest skill point spending profession that spends its points all on combat. i.e. a bounty hunter has to master scout which isnt a combat prof.

Yet we are the only combat class that dont progress with tht addition of an Elite class, ie none of the skills / bonus gained with the starting classes required to meet commando requirements have any relationship to the weapons we get for being commando, except for the launcher pistol but that ONLY uses the skills from the starter class ie your pistol skills get no better for being a commando.

We have a vast array of weapons all save the flamer & the laucher pistol do not function as they should.

As far as I am aware all of the 96 (?) skill point combat classes can use the same weapon for all of their specials, a commando has to swap and change about to make use of the weapons granted and then the specials for the other weapons either dont exist or simply are too poor to use.

Commandos do not ( again as far as i can tell ) get any "state" attacks ( except sometimes when i get a flame dot on an NPC an bleed also is added but think this is a bug ) nor do we get a KD attack ( or any healing like the TKMs )

Commados do not get any "state" defences ( well we get +5 KD big wow ) and get very poor normal combat defences.

Basically at master commando I get with the flamer : ( bear with me I am at work so am using a character builder for these stats so may be wrong )

Flamer Acc : +80

Flamer Speed : +45

General Ranged : +30

Ranged Def : +11 ( more than 50% from Marksman )

Mele Def : +7 ( about 30% from Marksman )

Alertness : +10

KD Defence : +5

Speacials : Flame single 1 & 2, Flame Cone 1& 2

Any thing else we get are for other weapons that dont stack with each other.

With those sort of stats I wouldnt mind being a support character if we only needed 96 points to get there. As it stands the commando is more like a starting class taking 45 points (?) to master.

So after my ramblings, yes I think the commando should own one on one in PvP against all commers, and if other profs dont like it spend the time and the points to become a combat prof not a TKM / cheif or a Pistoleer / Artisan etc. Or change the points required to be a commando plain and simple so they are costing 96 points not just acting like they cost 45 point.

Draggore

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:20 am

#37

And another patch fixing not a single of our issues.

Ok, we can deal hig ammounts of dammage and got our dot (at KD range and with an insanely delay)but:

We cant aim very good.

We cant go phrone and are easier to hit due this.

Acid is worthless, thats an entire skill line, even the launcher pistol is better, even without getting any modifications for it. Who uses Acid ?

AP of our non-consumable weapons sucks. We are anti-tank ? LoL

Our consumables we have to buy and are usually VERY expensive.

The range issues are horrible. Take a particle beam, and pray that the target is not moving (which it does usually).

Grenades are supposed to be thrown from 10m ? lol

So we are slow, unable to hit a target with a decent defence, usually broke and have to fight in close combat, standing most of the time around doing nothing, not being able to use a stim or someting else.

So, aside of our high dammage output (wich gets neglected by the delay), we suck at everything else. A combat medic is a better fighter (posion, heal, AP, accuracy). We suck in PVP, and ATST kill us. So what is our proffesion about ? Torching sharnaffs ?

Face it, this class is not über for PVP, PVE or killing ATST or Turrets. It sucks quite everywhere.

Skeptic666

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:17 am

#38

hehe It took this long for people to actualy start posting here and try to find out what is actualy going on? Does any one pesonaly know umm whats his name Garvin? I might have speld that wrong. He seems to know TH or at least some how gets hom to talk to him. If so do you think you could ask him if he knows any thign about how we will be balanced?

Member of Darkk
EX Combat Upgrade Sandbox Alpha Phase: Commando Team

Raptor2k1

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:23 pm

#39

"I'm just curious if you think commando should be a dueling class? You don't seem to be responding to that statement. You say 1 on 1 match to any profession, to me that means dueling profession."

To me, being able to 1 on 1 match any other elite means just that. Dueling is nothing more than an aside past-time for players to engage in. Generally speaking, most elite professions are (or are going to be in the near future) fairly even when fighting against another elite (with no other professions.) The commando goes beyond elite, and as such, should match any other stand-alone elite profession in combat.

They won't necessarily be as good as eachother at the same thing, but through use of the broad variety of skills a commando should have, he should be evenly matched in a one on one fight. This means, that with two equally-skilledplayers of different professions, say, a master rifleman and a master commando meet on the battlefield each player should have a 50% chance of winning, depending on the course of the battle.

I refuse to relegate any profession to being merely a 'dueling profession' as dueling is really rather trivial to the game and PvP at large. I don't see how being able to stand a fighting chance against another elite player makes you a dueling profession.

Let me put it this way: When all is said and done, there should be no dueling profession. Certain templates might be better geared for single player fights, but there should be no profession on it's own that has a significant advantage over another of it's tier.

Obviously some grey occurs when you have ranged versus melee, but since a commando is a hybrid of the two, they should be able to match either, again, not having a clear-cut advantage. The advantage that would be granted from having a hybrid profession (which is not unlike mastering a melee and a ranged elite seperately, heck, add one more skill tree and you spend the same skill cost as mastering an elite ranged and an elite melee) is that you can readily adapt to fight another elite on even footing. There has to be some boon to being an elite-hybrid, otherwise the profession is a waste of skill-points.

Again, just to re-iterate:

There should not be any "Dueling Profession"

Things as they are now are imbalanced, and I've a hunch that come publish 8, the entire conept of a 'dueling profession' may have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

In you're example of the knife vs the sledge hammer, no one would necessarily have the advantage. While the sledgehammer would be clumsy and innacurate, the second he lands a blow the match is over. The knife compensates by being able to strike quickly; however, he has the distinct disadvantage of doing marginal amounts of damage per attack in addition to having a much smaller range than the sledgehammer weilder. When all is said and done, there are pros and cons of either weapon, and they balance out so that both combatants are on relatively even footing, and the victor will be determined mostly by skill and knowledge of how to use the weapon of choice to the best of its abilities.

Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum

Commando Archive

Thread: Commandos? The new Revamped Combat system?