Commando Archive
Thread: Current Commando Top 5 (revised on 4/7/2004)
Garvin,
I agree with everythikng you say, i think you have captured the main points everyone has made on this topic.
My only comment is that melle defence improvements are top of my list. I imagine it would be relatively easy to update so this changecould possiblybe implemented fairly quickly. Improved melle defense would greatly improve the commando profession. changes to skill trees etc would probably take more work so could be delivered later.
I hope the devs act on these suggestions.
I agree with mostly everything - we need more diversity, I rarely use anything other than my FT.
I think where we could get that would be by tweaking the range on the HAR - give it a 30 M range for the acid single and acid cone moves - currently its not worth the XP or the SP for what it gives you (acid dmg). the other thing that occurred to me is that stronger acids will stick to the ski and burn - over time. Some sort of DoT (weaker than FT as it has a larger range) would be nice and I think the delays on both weapons compensate for the DoT stacking potential created.
I think the FT and HAR could easily be combined into one line (make it the HAR line for the increased required XP) and the newly spare heavy weapons line could be used for maybe some Commando only special attacks for pistols, carbines, rifles and unarmed combat - to make it apparent why we have Marksman, and not just pistols IV as our prerequisite - if this would benefit the class (too) greatly, make it combat XP to get it. Some kind of status effects (say stun for carbines, dizzy for rifles and posture change (up) for pistols [dance cowboy!]) and an AE shot akin to Fan shot would all be possibles. Or better yet - a unique skill that can be granted by getting Pistol Tech IV, for example.
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree.
Do we simply want what is there to be fully functional? Personally I don't. I would like a revamp that does not need to include the HAR. To me, this thing is worthless and I think it should just disappear. We could deal outacid damage from a carbine, if we had the appropriate assault tactics skills. If it must stay, not only should it be merged with FT, merge it with disposable heavy weapons as well. Commandos are not just about heavy weapons, they're elite soldiers diversely trained in the art of war. They are familiar with all weapon types. Lets get some variety.
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be either increased to average of 60 or more shots, be reloadable (so we only have to slice them one time) or have higher Accuracy & Speed mods to compensate for price and rarity.
Ya know, once again, I don't see the point, unless all that is wanted is to fix what is there and not make this class into an actual commando. If a Commando is going to have all these heavy weapons they should be all squished into one column for heavy weapons. There doesn't need to be that many of them. Overall, no, not any kind of concern of mine. Banish them entirely? I won't be upset.
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). Accuracy is extremely low when compared to damage done and range and should be raised to compensate. State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack.
I can think of things I'd place higher on the list, but it is true. We should be able to throw them a good distance at no HAM cost. What is so draining about throwing something? And, yes, please, increase the numbers in the packs. 5 is ridiculous.
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased.Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession.
True, commandos take it in the shorts having to fight at such close range yet having no special defenses against short ranged attacks. It's not fair for a profession that requires so much to get there to get so little defensively. We're forced to resort to adding some carbineer for counterattack or pistoleer for dodge. The commando profession should not need to depend on secondary professions to be able to function in battle, the commando should be able to stand alone, with no other professions providing a boost.
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol.It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added. TheLP needs to be adjusted to apply the proper amount of damage when compared toit's accuracy, theamount ofskill pts required to aquire the cert as well as it's speed. Currently this weapon is extermely low on balance.
I can't believe people get all bent out of shape about this pistol. I'd like it to disappear with the HAR. That is, if the potential novice commando could utilize another weapon to get where he needs to. Use this to replace the HAR tree? Christ almighty save us! Noooo! These are NOT commando skills-Does anyone know what a commando is? Navy Seals, Green Berets-these guys dont run around blowing the hell out of everything-they're covert, silent killers. Snipers, making insertions into hostile territory under cover of darkness to infiltrate and take their target, whether to occupy and hold it or to demolish it. Exploding pistols? No. Special demolition charges for taking out bases or explosive traps along the line of the claymoor mine-those are commando tools. Not this twit of a pistol.
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle or DC-15 and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree.
No, no, no. Just replace the HAR with a column that just puts in another weapon that probably wont work either? These thoughts are too much like what is already in the commando tree. And the commando tree is unimaginative and for the most part worthless. Add certification to the above, fine, but don't add skills that can ONLY be used with one weapon. Add general rifle skills that can be used with ANY rifle. What do real life commandos do with long rifles? They kill people at 700 yards and more with a single sniper shot. Why don't our commandos get sniper skills? It's an essential skill for real world commandos
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box
Master commando is nearly worthless. Every now and then flame cone 2 works, but the targets really have to be stacked up on top of each other. In every profession, making master should provide some skill or skills that really makes it worthwhile
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web.
Our troubles are not going to be fixed just with new weapons. We need a major rebuild-merge all three heavy weapons columns, create a hand-to-hand column(not unarmed, but weapon equipped specials for fighting up close and personal) and create a column that builds on the weapons learned in marksman: sniper skills for rifle, assault tactics for carbine and close quarter fighting for pistol. then change the grenade column to the demolition column, adding different types of explosives commandos would use to set traps and to blow bases and major facilities.
9) Give Commandos some type of "Dirty Tactics" Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree
Yes, yes, yes. Read my response to number 8. I wouldn't call them dirty, though. What's dirty about war? Everything, so it's all dirty. No need to try to differentiate. All's fair in love and war, right
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req. One method to accomplish this is to give Commandos Melee Mitigation along with Ranged Mitigation.
Sure, why not
11) Until Commandos are provided with other non-bugged valid weapons, when adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame.
Screw that-just play. Commandos should go out there and die like good soldiers. They're not going to adjust all the creatures, rather than, at the least, repair our pathetic HA rifles.
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS. Commandos use the second most skill points in the game, we need to be fighting at a level that justifies that cost.
Man, some of you really get into your stats-DPS, DOT, blah blah blah. Do I have fun killing stuff? No? Then something's wrong. Numbers? I dont want to hear numbers. Figures lie and liars figure. Make it fun. Do that and we should all shut up and be happy.
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own
Theres's plenty of ranged weapons in the game. Give us skills that make use of them at range, sniper skills like a real commando would have.
There you go
kenrw24 wrote:
I don't know what happened on that last one-I'll try again.
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree.
Do we simply want what is there to be fully functional? Personally I don't. I would like a revamp that does not need to include the HAR. To me, this thing is worthless and I think it should just disappear. We could deal outacid damage from a carbine, if we had the appropriate assault tactics skills. If it must stay, not only should it be merged with FT, merge it with disposable heavy weapons as well. Commandos are not just about heavy weapons, they're elite soldiers diversely trained in the art of war. They are familiar with all weapon types. Lets get some variety.
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be either increased to average of 60 or more shots, be reloadable (so we only have to slice them one time) or have higher Accuracy & Speed mods to compensate for price and rarity.
Ya know, once again, I don't see the point, unless all that is wanted is to fix what is there and not make this class into an actual commando. If a Commando is going to have all these heavy weapons they should be all squished into one column for heavy weapons. There doesn't need to be that many of them. Overall, no, not any kind of concern of mine. Banish them entirely? I won't be upset.
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). Accuracy is extremely low when compared to damage done and range and should be raised to compensate. State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack.
I can think of things I'd place higher on the list, but it is true. We should be able to throw them a good distance at no HAM cost. What is so draining about throwing something? And, yes, please, increase the numbers in the packs. 5 is ridiculous.
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased.Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession.
True, commandos take it in the shorts having to fight at such close range yet having no special defenses against short ranged attacks. It's not fair for a profession that requires so much to get there to get so little defensively. We're forced to resort to adding some carbineer for counterattack or pistoleer for dodge. The commando profession should not need to depend on secondary professions to be able to function in battle, the commando should be able to stand alone, with no other professions providing a boost.
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol.It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added. TheLP needs to be adjusted to apply the proper amount of damage when compared toit's accuracy, theamount ofskill pts required to aquire the cert as well as it's speed. Currently this weapon is extermely low on balance.
I can't believe people get all bent out of shape about this pistol. I'd like it to disappear with the HAR. That is, if the potential novice commando could utilize another weapon to get where he needs to. Use this to replace the HAR tree? Christ almighty save us! Noooo! These are NOT commando skills-Does anyone know what a commando is? Navy Seals, Green Berets-these guys dont run around blowing the hell out of everything-they're covert, silent killers. Snipers, making insertions into hostile territory under cover of darkness to infiltrate and take their target, whether to occupy and hold it or to demolish it. Exploding pistols? No. Special demolition charges for taking out bases or explosive traps along the line of the claymoor mine-those are commando tools. Not this twit of a pistol.
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle or DC-15 and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree.
No, no, no. Just replace the HAR with a column that just puts in another weapon that probably wont work either? These thoughts are too much like what is already in the commando tree. And the commando tree is unimaginative and for the most part worthless. Add certification to the above, fine, but don't add skills that can ONLY be used with one weapon. Add general rifle skills that can be used with ANY rifle. What do real life commandos do with long rifles? They kill people at 700 yards and more with a single sniper shot. Why don't our commandos get sniper skills? It's an essential skill for real world commandos
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box.
Master commando is nearly worthless. Every now and then flame cone 2 works, but the targets really have to be stacked up on top of each other. In every profession, making master should provide some skill or skills that really makes it worthwhile
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web.
Our troubles are not going to be fixed just with new weapons. We need a major rebuild-merge all three heavy weapons columns, create a hand-to-hand column (not unarmed, but weapon equipped specials for fighting up close and personal) and create a column that builds on the weapons learned in marksman: sniper skills for rifle, assault tactics for carbine and close quarter fighting for pistol. then change the grenade column to the demolition column, adding different types of explosives commandos would use to set traps and to blow bases and major facilities.
9) Give Commandos some type of "Dirty Tactics" Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree
Yes, yes, yes. Read my response to number 8. I wouldn't call them dirty, though. What's dirty about war? Everything, so it's all dirty. No need to try to differentiate. All's fair in love and war, right
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req. One method to accomplish this is to give Commandos Melee Mitigation along with Ranged Mitigation.
Sure, why not
11) Until Commandos are provided with other non-bugged valid weapons, when adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame.
Screw that-just play. Commandos should go out there and die like good soldiers. They're not going to adjust all the creatures, rather than, at the least, repair our pathetic HA rifles.
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS. Commandos use the second most skill points in the game, we need to be fighting at a level that justifies that cost.
Man, some of you really get into your stats-DPS, DOT, blah blah blah. Do I have fun killing stuff? No? Then something's wrong. Numbers? I dont want to hear numbers. Figures lie and liars figure. Make it fun. Do that and we should all shut up and be happy.
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own
Theres's plenty of ranged weapons in the game. Give us skills that make use of them at range, sniper skills like a real commando would have.
It bugged me too much just to leave it hehe
garvin wrote:
Last Revised on 4/7/04
To be submitted as is to the Devs today. Please keep feedback coming for future updates to be submitted to the Devs on our ongoing issues.
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree. I would love to seethe FT tree and the HAR tree combined with theHeavy weapons tree. I agree with the AP too. It boggles my mind that the only weapons we havewith AP are the consumables.
2) Revert Consumable Heavy Weapons back to using generic Heavy Weapon Speed and Heavy Weapon Accuracy skill mods. Consumable Heavy Weapons also need to be altered to AP3 (or at the very least AP2). Reversion will cause Bugged Heavy Weapon Skill Mod Attachments to once again work in game. Heavy Consumable weapons should be either increased to average of 60 or more shots, be reloadable (so we only have to slice them one time) or have higher Accuracy & Speed mods to compensate for price and rarity.I'm not a big fan of skill tapes but I can see where you are coming from, don't think it's really that important though. I'd be happy witheither of those 3 changes to theHeavy Consumables though. As far asI've seen all the consumables have medium toheavy AP.
3) Grenades need to be altered and adjusted. Range needs to be increased to compare with Combat Medic (same principle), state effects added and HAM costs need to be lowered drastically (often incapps the user). Accuracy is extremely low when compared to damage done and range and should be raised to compensate. State effects can include Knockdown, stun, delay, blind, dizzy, and other. Higher level grenades should have some level of AP. Grenades also need to be increased to average 25 to 30 instead of current 5 per pack. I would love for grenades to be useful
4) Melee Defenses need to be increased. Other elite professions, like Pistoleer, have higher Melee Defenses (Melee Defense and Def Vs) then Commando yet Commando is the only Ranged profession with all Specials have a Melee range restriction. Due to skill point cost and Melee Range restriction, Commando should have same or more Melee Defenses then any other Ranged Profession. I don't quite agree with this. I do think that we need more defenses in general. Some defense vs. States wouldbe sweet. Maybe melee mitigation 1 but not more than that.
5) Launcher Pistol needs to be made a Heavy Weapon and not a Pistol. It needs Commando specials instead of using Pistol specials as well as LP speed and accuracy granted in a Commando tree of it's own (possibly replacing the HAR tree as mentioned above). AP needs to be added. TheLP needs to be adjusted to apply the proper amount of damage when compared toit's accuracy, theamount ofskill pts required to aquire the cert as well as it's speed. Currently this weapon is extermely low on balance. I don't see a problem with the LP being a pistol. But some pistoleers do lol. LikeI said for #1 just combineit with the other heavy weapons in one tree or if we were given a ranged weapons tree put it there. Add some commando only specials for the LP within that tree, but do not waste a tree on one weapon... That seems to be our problem now lol
6) Give Commandos Certification to Beam Rifle or DC-15 and Commando specials to use this weapon. Accompany this if possible with Commando ranged specials for this weapon. Another possible replacement for the HAR Tree.Put this in a ranged weapons tree sure with some correspondingspecials, but once again, don't waste a whole tree on one weapon... That seems to be our problem now lol
7) Increase benefit of achieving Master Commando by increasing speed and accuracy grants as well as either moving /flamecone2 or adding a new Flame special to Master box. For the love of all that is Good and Holy take the emphasis of Commando off of the dratted FT. As for the benefits of accuracy and speed for master, heck yeah.
8) Give Commandos new repeating weapon such as E-Web. Give us something, we need some variety.
9) Give Commandos some type of "Dirty Tactics" Unarmed Specials to compliment the pre-req of the Unarmed Tree. I've always thoughtI should be able to smack someone in the face withthe super heated barrel of my FTafter using a flamesingle or cone during cool down. But no unarmed please. Melee yes, with butts and barrels and such but no unarmed.
10) Give Commandos a Commando Toughness to help differentiate them from other Ranged Professions since Commando is the only Ranged Profession requiring a Melee pre-req. One method to accomplish this is to give Commandos Melee Mitigation along with Ranged Mitigation. Melee mitigation1 at the most.
11) Until Commandos are provided with other non-bugged valid weapons, when adding a new gameplay dungeon/base content to SWG, please add some with low Heat Resists to compensate for the large volume of High Level high heat resist NPCs and Dungeons ingame. Once again, take the focus of Commando off of the FT. I'd ratherpick up pistoleeror smuggler or carbineer or rifleman than to have them startjacking around with mobs resists for a weapon most of us are sick of using. Put more emphasis on getting some variety.
12) Balance Damage Per Second in game between professions based on skill point cost. Current professions like Rifleman can out damage the "Heavy Weapon Specialists" when you compare DPS. Commandos use the second most skill points in the game, we need to be fighting at a level that justifies that cost. I believe this will be addressed in the combat revamp (assuming theyEVER release it).
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own. Like it's been said before, there are plenty of ranged weapons, maybe add 1 or 2 new ones but yes definately give us Commando Specific specials.
Message Edited by garvin on 04-07-2004 10:38 AM
Message Edited by Gwenny_Lariso on 04-17-2004 02:37 AM
garvin wrote:
Last Revised on 4/7/04
13) Give Commandos a Ranged Weapon with ranged specials of our own.
Message Edited by garvin on 04-07-2004 10:38 AM
garvin wrote:
1) Revamp the Heavy Acid Rifle. Remove ranged restriction, increase to AP3 (only Acid weapon currently in game without Armor Peircing), and combine with Flame Thrower Tree (see Launcher Pistol request for more details). HAR is weaker then FT, has no DoT, no AP, and suffers same restrictions as the FT yet costs more XP to grind the Acid Tree.
Giving ap1 or 2, 40m specials anda 10m radius would justtiies the HAM costs/accuracy/speed
Message Edited by garvin on 04-07-2004 10:38 AM
those would be great changes and improvments to commando.
great job!!
The more i think about this the more it nags me... so i better bring it up in the hope that something gets done about it.
Let me first state that BY NO MEANS do i see the commando as something that should be out soloing Krayts or whatever else... but...
What is with all of the "Big Game" having 100% or near heat resists ? I currently have all but 81 skill points spent to become a Commando. This means i have to spend the rest of my points on another profession to make myself usefull in any kind of situation that puts me with mobs with high heat resists. So lets say i go Master Commando, Master Swordsman... ive got 4 skill points left... i cant have my scouting skill points to aid me in negotiating terian... i cant have medical skills to heal myself... i can loot hides for my Armorsmith...
So then this gets you thinking... is Flame Cone 2 worth 38 Skill points (Roleing back to 0-1-4-0) I can see why others have done this... they keep the ability to be useful in PVP Base Raids... and keep the flamethrower... but get rid of everthing else.
Now yes i know that we have other weapons like Grenades... and Rocketlaunchers... and hell even Acid Rifles... but come on... do you know how much good Grenades cost ? do you know how many rockets you have to stick into a Krayt ?
When you think about it this profession is very similar to BH in regard to the usage of skill points... only advantage BH has is the variety of weapons they have to choose from.
Can we please make a Master Commando more effective against the big game... and in pvp while you there
xxNaftxx wrote:
I read galvin and lordS posts and agree with both of them, any or all of those would increase the fun factor of the commandos' game 110%.
I would like to see the HAR be revamped so we could insert modules, sigh or have modules crafted for them, a poison module, e-web, grenades, acid module, electric discharge moduleetc. Originally we were supposed to be able to craft our own grenades, I dont see why a commando can't modify their own weapons, sigh or have someone craft one with a different damage base. "Look here soldier, your going to planet X, they are all immune to flame, but it is our only weapon, just deal with it, I would give you a acid rifle but well it is a poor weapon". We should be more adaptable being 'shock troopers'.
Launcher pistol should get atleast ONE special attack, just throw it into tactics tree. Not sure what it should be at this point, but there should be something. More of a commando tactic than a whole necessary tree. "Here soldier is your launcher pistol, just aim and destroy" So no commando in history of swg universe ever devised some 'shot' or special manuever with a gun that shoots 4 rockets at a target? Concussion, stun, KD all come to mind. 4 explosions underneath a target should knock it off its feet. Large creatures should be immune or get a bonus resist imho.
Commandos are supposed to be the lords of destruction, grouped or solo atleast our weapons should be the most destructive.
agree completely, and as to being shock troopers...well hell its one of our titles, commandos shouldnt be able to go toe to toe with a krayt dragon or something of the like and come out without a scratch. I think the HAR needs to go in the same tree as the ft, and we commandos need some new toys... I myself use grenades a lot, but thats because I have spent all my cash on grenade accuracy skill tapes. Grenades need to be more effective, and their optimum range should not be in the blast radius, blowing yourself up isnt as entertaining as it sounds. But all in all we need new toys