Commando Archive
Thread: The glory of the Launcher Pistol
I did some research.
Master Bounty Hunter:
- Pistol Accuracy +120
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +0
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +0
- Pistol Speed +80
- Ranged Defense +22
- Melee Defense +2
- Dodge +0
Master Bounty Hunter with Pistoleer 0-4-0-4:
- Pistol Accuracy +155
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +20
- Pistol Speed +103
- Ranged Defense +22
- Melee Defense +32
- Dodge +10
Master Bounty Hunter with Pistoleer 4-0-0-3:
- Pistol Accuracy +125
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +0
- Pistol Speed +103
- Ranged Defense +22
- Melee Defense +32
- Dodge +80
Master Commando with Master Pistoleer:
- Pistol Accuracy +105
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +30
- Pistol Speed +79
- Ranged Defense +50
- Melee Defense +84
- Dodge +105
Master Pistoleer:
- Pistol Accuracy +95
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
- Pistol Accuracy Wile Moving +30
- Pistol Speed +74
- Ranged Defense +7
- Melee Defense +50
- Dodge +105
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No matter how you slice it, a Master Bounty Hunter will never have the Dodge and Melee/Ranged Defense that a Master Commando/Pistoleer. A BH could only ever have a +80 Dodge compared to a Pistoleer's +105. And a BH could only have +32 Melee Defense against a Master Commando/Pistoleer's +84.
But on the flip side of the coin, there is no way anyone could have more speed or accuracy with apistolthan a Bounty Hunter does. A BH can have a +155 in Pistol Accuracy against a Master Commando/Pistoleer's +105. And a BH can have a +103 in Pistol Speed against a Master Commando/Pistoleer's +79.
So what a Bounty Hunter gains in Pistol Speed/Accuracy over the other professions, he pays for with skill points and less defense. To give a Commando Pistol mods in the Commando line should be paid for in skill points and less defense. I don't think any of us want that.
Please understand that this is only to combat the argument that Commandos should receive Pistol mods as well. I'll argue the whole "Master Pistoleers are better with the LP than Master Commandos" thing next.
Your right about not giving us pistoleer specials, and speed/accuracy mods stacking with commanod; that I agree, but thats not what we need to do.
What we need to do is give us our own and psitoleer not stack on it, and like maddogs said, only our master marksman specials work with it. That would put it in line with our other weapons mechanics, i.e. OC2 with FT or HAR, but yet riflman doesnt effect the HAR.
I think its great that BHs get to stack like that, after all, they should be graceful accurate and fast, greater than any other profession, while we shouldhave the raw power, which we lack contrary to popular beilief and especially at range past 16m.
The LP is our longest ranged weapon for commandos but yet we get nothing to use with it. To say we got the points to master another profession or whatever to compensate is like saying we are nothing more than master dablers with a huge skill point dump in master commando, since it is unnecesarry for me to get more than flame 4 for flamesingle 2, and the LP, then master pistoleer. I could make a lot nastier PvPer for them to whine about by doing that and investing skill points elsewhere. Heck even just taking the flame 4 isnt worth the skills you gotta take just to get it. You could easily go master rifleman, TKA 0-0-0-4, Fencer 4-0-0-0 and still have plenty points left over to do what you want with, but with just that no one will ever hit you.
I know, why dont I drop commando and do it then? I think myself and several other commandos just got a lot of pride and hope for the profession, Do we want to be uber? Hell no. Do we give a **edit** if we are or arent? Hell no, we like the fact that we have fought through rough times, and the fact that we didnt get the pre-reqs in a day. We are no panzy one line elite class, no matter how the cards are dealt our way, we will arrise victorious over any diversity.
At least thats me.
tacwraith wrote:
its ridiculous to see novice commandos (just novice box holders)+master pistoleers be better at atst killing than a master commando is using the highest damage, high damage sliced rocket launcher.
First of all, I think this argument is silly since a Master Commando can easily pick-up Master Pistoleer as well. But nonetheless, I will continue.
A Master Pistoleer with Novice Commando can clearly do more damage with a Luancher Pistol than a Master Commando.
Master Commando:
- Pistol Speed +30
- Pistol Accuracy +60
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +0
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +0
Master Pistoleer & Novice Commando:
- Pistol Speed +79
- Pistol Accuracy +105
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +30
I completely agree with the fact that a Master Pistoleer with Novice Commando does more damage using the Luancher Pistol than a Master Commando does. But I do not think it should change.
This same "problem" exists with the Bounty Hunter Profession as well. A Master Pistoleer with the Bounty Hunter Pistols tree can do more damage with a Scatter Pistol than a Master Bounty Hunter.
Master Bounty Hunter:
- Pistol Speed +80\
- Pistol Accuracy +120
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +0
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +0
Master Pistoleer & Bounty Pistol IV:
- Pistol Speed +129
- Pistol Accuracy +155
- Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15
- Pistol Accuracy While Moving +30
The same is true with a Master Carbineer and Bounty Carbine dabbler.
Master Bounty Hunter:
- Carbine Speed +80
- Carbine Accuracy +120
Master Carbineer & Bounty Carbine IV:
- Carbine Speed +115
- Carbine Accuracy +190
The only argument I would think that could combat what I'm saying here is that in my Bounty Hunter examples, the player is required to spend 237 skills as opposed to 75 with the Master Pistoler/Novice Commando complaint.
But so what? Once someone starts dabbling in the Commando profession, they are a Commando. Even if they have some pistol skills, we as Master Commandos have the same potential to get the very same skills they have. Bounty Hunters do not have this opportunity due to a lack of skill points and that's why they have their own skill mods.
If anything needs to change, it's the Commando's existing heavy weapons. Rocket Launchers are cool and should be used to take down AT-STs, but they rarely hit anything that isn't moving and take way too long to shoot. Nerfing the LP will not change this.
TechnoHic wrote:
To say we got the points to master another profession or whatever to compensate is like saying we are nothing more than master dablers with a huge skill point dump in master commando, since it is unnecesarry for me to get more than flame 4 for flamesingle 2, and the LP, then master pistoleer. I could make a lot nastier PvPer for them to whine about by doing that and investing skill points elsewhere. Heck even just taking the flame 4 isnt worth the skills you gotta take just to get it. You could easily go master rifleman, TKA 0-0-0-4, Fencer 4-0-0-0 and still have plenty points left over to do what you want with, but with just that no one will ever hit you.
I know, why dont I drop commando and do it then? I think myself and several other commandos just got a lot of pride and hope for the profession, Do we want to be uber? Hell no. Do we give a **edit** if we are or arent? Hell no, we like the fact that we have fought through rough times, and the fact that we didnt get the pre-reqs in a day. We are no panzy one line elite class, no matter how the cards are dealt our way, we will arrise victorious over any diversity.
At least thats me.
Dude, I'm totally on the same page with you in terms of passion for the Commando profession. But given that we have 81 skill points left over means that once we hit Master Commando, we would be foolish not to utilize them to make us even more powerful.
Dabblers? Hardly. Tacwraith is a Master Commando and Master TKA. I wouldn't wanna meet him on the battlefield. But what exactly is he dabbling in?
Myself - Master Commando and Master Pistoleer. What am I attempting to dabble in? I'm a Commando that can destroy AT-STs and get my way out of a gunfight. And you know what? I'm able to use my gunfighting skills to make one of my Commando-only weapons more elite.
Even ifa Master Pistoleer picks up Novice Commando for the fun of the Launcher Pistol, I can still:
- Pick-up Master Pistoleer as well.
- Use many of my other Commando weapons that he cannot.
someguyonline wrote:
- It does blast damage. No pistol does this.
This is only an advantage against AT-ST's and turrets. I have found that most mobs have the same or less blast resistance than othe resistances.
Additionally, look at the damage types other classes get... The Pistoleer DX2 gets acid damage...few mobs have high acid resistance. Riflemen's Jawa Ion Rifle does stun damage...few mobs have high stun resists, and almost all armor has NO stun resists. I don't know jack about carbineer, but I assume they have something comparable.
Fact is, unless you spend a bunch of skill points on smuggler or pistoleer, the launcher pistol does little. If you do become a smuggler/pistoleer there are plenty of pistols that will do just as much, if not more, damage than the launcher. Basically, if you take up smuggler or pistoleer, you have no reason tu use the launcher anyway...it just becomes one more damage type you have at your disposal. However, it should not be considered a "perk" for commandos...especially considering that rocket launchers do MUCH more DPS and also do blast damage.
oops...that should read: "I have found that most mobs have the same or MOREblast resistance than other resistances."
Daker-Naritus wrote:
I have found that most mobs have the same or less blast resistance than othe resistances.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
oops...that should read: "I have found that most mobs have the same or MOREblast resistance than other resistances."
AT-STs only? Rancors shudder at the site of my Launcher Pistol. 
You've also gotta consider the 64m range on the thing. It becomes a very nice Heavy Weapons Support weapon. While your group is on the front lines, you're supporting them with artillery.
i used to be master tka, but for pvp it didnt work very well, i was still extremely vulnerable to someone shooting me from 64m and kiting me.
so i dropped master tka and picked up rifleman. im master commando, tka 4.0.0.4 and rifleman 4.3.0.4
I think you misunderstood my point about the LP vs rocket launcher. The issue is not the pistol itself, or the fact that commandos dont have specials for it in the commando trees (even though it is a commando weapon!)... its the fact that this weapon, when used by pistoleers, becomes far more effective than a master commando using a rocket launcher on the commando's intended role : anti-vehicle.
the pistol's blast damage makes a pistoleer/novice commando much,much better at this role than the master, makes a non-disposable, cheappistol be far more effective than an expensive, disposable rocket launcher.
thats why i say the LP should be shifted to heavy weapons and be given specials that are more in-line with the commando's role. instead of bleed shots, give us area effect shots. instead of single-ham targetting, give us homing attack that doesnt do more damage than an autofire shot, but it never misses. instead of high damage random ham damage shots, give us utility attacks like blind or a ranged intimidate (just like smuggler has ranged warcry), aoe stun, etc. Make the LP be a SIDEARM instead of a primary weapon.
Dont forget the LP, over a RL, you can run with the dang thing and RLs you gotta kneel.
tacwraith wrote:
I think you misunderstood my point about the LP vs rocket launcher. The issue is not the pistol itself, or the fact that commandos dont have specials for it in the commando trees (even though it is a commando weapon!)... its the fact that this weapon, when used by pistoleers, becomes far more effective than a master commando using a rocket launcher on the commando's intended role : anti-vehicle.
the pistol's blast damage makes a pistoleer/novice commando much,much better at this role than the master, makes a non-disposable, cheappistol be far more effective than an expensive, disposable rocket launcher.
thats why i say the LP should be shifted to heavy weapons and be given specials that are more in-line with the commando's role. instead of bleed shots, give us area effect shots. instead of single-ham targetting, give us homing attack that doesnt do more damage than an autofire shot, but it never misses. instead of high damage random ham damage shots, give us utility attacks like blind or a ranged intimidate (just like smuggler has ranged warcry), aoe stun, etc. Make the LP be a SIDEARM instead of a primary weapon.
bleedShots? Come on.
I don't wanna throw your current template in your face, but I have to after that comment.
With Pistoleer and Smuggler, the Launcher Pistol gets some beautiful moves like Stopping Shot and Last Ditch. Let's not forget lowBlow. The ability to knock down your opponent from 64m is very nice.
You can't experience any of these benefits with your current template.
But ultimately it sounds like you're just wanting some extra moves with the Launcher Pistol instead of removing the stackable pistol mods altogether. Am I correct?
I am all for that. Make have AP1 as well. But giving us more speed and/or accuracy wouldn't be fair to other classes (Like Bounty Hunter).
Anyway, good discussion.
last night i just got master pistoleer but have yet to play around with it....i am a master commando, master pistoleer and have dirty fighting 3 which gives me 0 skill points left. but i do have to agree that with this template it gives us master commando's the advantage over other classes in that from 64m we can drop you to your ass, delay you for 10s and run up and flame ya. can't wait to play around with this though....after i got the master pistoleer, i logged and today after work....booya...should be fun.
bleedShots? Come on.
I don't wanna throw your current template in your face, but I have to after that comment."
erm, i said that instead of giving the commando a launcher pistol special that bleeds, give us something else. bleed shots are other ranged classes specialty, not ours. ours is soe explosive kinda stuff.
"With Pistoleer and Smuggler, the Launcher Pistol gets some beautiful moves like Stopping Shot and Last Ditch. Let's not forget lowBlow. The ability to knock down your opponent from 64m is very nice.
You can't experience any of these benefits with your current template."
i have been commando/smuggler and i know they are all very nice. All im saying is that the launcher pistol should not use pistol specials because then pistoleers become better at anti-vehicle duties than the commando is.
"But ultimately it sounds like you're just wanting some extra moves with the Launcher Pistol instead of removing the stackable pistol mods altogether. Am I correct?"
no. I want the launcher pistol to not use pistol specials. I want it to have its own speed/accuracy mods in the commando trees and to have its own specials in the commando trees.