Commando Archive
Thread: The glory of the Launcher Pistol
tacwraith wrote:
no. I want the launcher pistol to not use pistol specials. I want it to have its own speed/accuracy mods in the commando trees and to have its own specials in the commando trees.
At that same token, do you feel the same way about the Bounty Hunter's Scatter Pistol and Carbine weapon? A Master Pistoleer dabbling with either of those weapons can be much more powerful than a Master Bounty Hunter.
I think it's gotta stay the way it is. It gives us a connection to another profession that makes sense. Instead of trying to stack defense mods and the like, we can actually get all the benefits thatMaster Pistoleer does.
Also, if they did change it like you suggest, it would run the high risk of becoming another neglected weapon in the Commando line (*cough* HAR). And it would most likely not be as powerful as it is now with the Pistol mods.
The problem right now is that we are FORCED to use Pistoleer or Smuggler to use a weapon that is given only to Commandos. That would be like giving a Sniper Rifle to a Bounty Hunter, and say, well you have the Rifle tree from Mastering Marksman.
This weapon is in the commando profession; it is ours, period. When we think about this, we cannot say, well we have leftovers for Pistoleer.... so take that and you can useit well. So what if the Flamethrower only had specials in the Carbineer Tree, and HAR in the Rifle Tree? Am I to assume, because we have skill points, I should now take up another profession to access better specials for mine?
I don't want anything to step on another professions toes, but the LP with it's own Acc/Speed mods, as well as some cool specials would fit. Things like "Lock-on Shot" and "Armor Piercing Missle"... not speedy but powerful. This would put us back into the Vehcile Killers we should be. Oh and rmoving Pistol Specials from the LP would help stop the crossing as well.
To see that another class is required to make one of our unique weapons effective is just plain insulting. It's as bad as when folks would complain about any on the combat classes not working right and someone would respond, "Not if you have CH..."
No other class should be required to make another class able to fulfil it's role. Commandoes are supposed to be the anti-vehicle anti-fortification class. We are supposed to do high amounts of damage in an initial "shock" attack and have a long recovery period. We should be able to fulfil that role independent of taking any other classes. If we take another class, it should be to fulfil another role as well. Not make commando work right.
Jawa-Sith-Lord wrote:
No other class should be required to make another class able to fulfil it's role.
Commandos still fill that role without Pistol mods. But they can fill it even better with the mods.
It's kind of a hardline statement you're making right now. I mean, virtually every other combat class is "complete", but could have more potential if combined with another class. Other than my Bounty Hunter examples, there are also the defense examples that can be combined through mastering multiple classes.
But seriously, what did you want to do with those 81 points? Dabble in other professions? 
Jawa-Sith-Lord wrote:
Commandoes are supposed to be the anti-vehicle anti-fortification class. We are supposed to do high amounts of damage in an initial "shock" attack and have a long recovery period. We should be able to fulfil that role independent of taking any other classes. If we take another class, it should be to fulfil another role as well. Not make commando work right.
We do fill that roll and fill it well. But taking skill mods from Pistoleer isn't a quest to "fix" a broken weapon; it's just to make that weapon work better.
What's the big deal about that? It happens in many other professions. We have the skill points. It's just one weapon out of thirteen that is handled this way.
Out of all those weapons though, you must look at damage type as well, to get the full effect. Majority of them are Blast Damage, as we are the big damage dealers for Vehicle/Large Target types. I agree, a Pistoleer can wreck anyone with a Pistol, but when they are able to take down all targets quite easily.... it tends to make them overall too powerful.
I feel our place is a Anti-Vehicular large damage type; but when this is done better by another profession, which is better defined as a 1v1 style duelist, or maybe 1v3 Infantry Type, we lose our main place. The HAR and Flamer are our backup to use against infantry, and at 64m with the speed, accuracy while moving, and damage done... we don't stand up to a Pistoleer. We shouldn't; this is not our spot. But if a Pistoleer faces of with an AT-ST, it should NOT be able to take one down faster than we can.
Also as I said above; no other profession has a weapon that it get's no mods or specials for, that is why we want a change.
LordSeckmoth wrote:
I feel our place is a Anti-Vehicular large damage type; but when this is done better by another profession, which is better defined as a 1v1 style duelist, or maybe 1v3 Infantry Type, we lose our main place. The HAR and Flamer are our backup to use against infantry, and at 64m with the speed, accuracy while moving, and damage done... we don't stand up to a Pistoleer. We shouldn't; this is not our spot. But if a Pistoleer faces of with an AT-ST, it should NOT be able to take one down faster than we can.
But it's not just a Pistoleer taking down the AT-ST. It's a Pistoleer dabbling in a Commando. I don't understand why this is a problem if we have the ability as masters to be just as good as a Pistoleer with the Launcher Pistol.
Andthe Pistoleercouldn't take one down as fast as we could if we are dabbling in their very same profession. flameSingle2, flameCone2, and then Stopping Shot until it's dead.
We would win in a race.
LordSeckmoth wrote:
Also as I said above; no other profession has a weapon that it get's no mods or specials for, that is why we want a change.
The only profession comparable to this statement would be Bounty Hunter. But I'll revert back to my earlier argument in that they are required to use much more skill points than us and don't have the ability to Master Pistoleer or Carbineer as well. So it makes sense that they get mods.
But I do agree that we should get some specials. That's it though.
someguyonline wrote:
A Master Commando has 13 weapons to choose from that is specific to mastering the profession:
- Cryoban Grenade
- Flame Thrower
- Fragmentation Grenade
- Glop Grenade
- Heavy Acid Beam
- Heavy Acid Rifle
- Heavy Particle Beam Cannon
- Imperial Detonator
- Launcher Pistol
- Lightning Beam Cannon
- Proton Grenade
- Rocket Launcher
- Thermal Detonator
Whether or not we're all happy with the current functionality of those weapons is another debate.
But 13 weapons specific to mastering one profession is very unique. No other profession even comes close. What is the big deal if one of them uses mods from Pistoleer?
Only 3 of those are non-consumable, and if your a pistoleer, or anything else, you have sseveral weapons from your pre-req that your specials work with and skills modify, we start fresh at novice commando.
Who cares about what a Master Pistoleer can dabble in when we can dabble in Pistoleer and get the very same mods?
That same Master Pistoleer can dabble in Bounty Hunter to the baddest mo-fo with a pistol. Should that be changed as well? We then take away power from a Bounty Hunter getting extra skills from the Pistoleer tree.
We are not saying we care that a pistoleer can dable to get it, we're saying it forces us to take pistoleer if we want anythign to do with our weapon. the way your talking, why not have the HAR not get anything unless we take rifleman, or the FT nothing unless we take carbineer. We got our own stuff for those and asside from the HAR not working I like my FT and dont want to go take carbineer to be any good at it.
BHs are supposed to be accurate and fast, smart assasins. We should have raw power, and we are lacking, not because the BHs get more, but because where is our power? Especially at beyond 16m?
I think it is ridiculous for us to sit here and complain about how dabbling templates are too powerful. A Master Pistoleer with Novice Commando has some power, but not nearly as much as a Master Commando with Master Pitoleer.
We are not talking about dabler templates, we are talking about our weapon having absolutely nothing to do with us.
I also think it is ridiculous that we would take one of our few working weapons and ask for changes. It works beautifully.
For a pistoleer it probably does, but did you ever try it with just commando? You miss any mob thats of a respectable level, and Im sorry, health shot 1 and body shot 2 do little for it.
My main point:
It works. It works best with Pistoleer mods. If we nerf the thing to prevent Pistoleers from dabbling and getting an uber-weapon, we'll end up with a lame version of what we currently have. It will never be as good as it is now. It will just be one of the thirteen weapons that sort-of work for Commandos.
We dont want the weapon itself touched as far as a nerf. We just want our own abilities with it.
Why is it that everyone gets so far in the discussion and then they try to drag it down to a dabler topic or a nerf cry? This is nothing of the sort. The real problem here is, if you got master pistoleer, you are not willing to give up the, more than likely, unintended advantage that you have with the LP in the name of whats good for the general commando.
I have some pistoleer started, but I still say make the LP work for the commando.
Man, that was really hard to tell whatwas said by me and what was your reply.
I do see the problem you're all talking about where a Pistoleer can get a killer weapon just by getting Novice Commando (I have never seen this though). I think the best solution to this was suggested in this thread: Give some specials unique to the Commando profession (But any of those specials could still be dabbled by a Pistoleer).
I also see how some are upset that the Launcher Pistol isn't so hot unless you pick up some Pistoleer, but I just don't see it as a bad thing. It's a single-handed weapon that is used like a pistol would be used.
Whatever the case, I think we're all very passionate about the Commando profession which is awesome.
someguy, the BHs HAVE pistol and carbine mods and specialsof their own. so does pistoleer/carbineerA pistoleer dabbling in BH pistol gets roughly the same benefit as a BH dabbling in pistoleer. No incongruency there, both are combat classes geared to taking down creatures and other players. They are not, however, geared to taking down vehicles like the atst.
blast damage is the key issue im bringing up. SOE apparently is making blast be the vulnerable damage type for vehicles. the damage output of a pistoleer with the launcher pistol is seriously over what a master commando can do with a rocket launcher or with his own launcher pistol. And no, you should NOT rate a commando weapon with other proffession's skillmods. Its as ridiculous as saying that pistoleer dodge doesnt work until they dabble in fencer. key word: doesnt WORK.
if the launcher pistol was any other damage type than blast, then heck yeah, dabble away in novice commando box, i wouldnt give a rats arse about it. but right now what we have is like telling ajedi master that he needs todabble in pikeman before he can get any mods or attacks to use with a dual lightsaber. (its an example, i know jedi cant dabble in anything).
making the LP a heavy weapon, not using pistol mods or attacks, giving it the equivalent of about 2/3rds the accurracy a master pistoleer gets, half the on-the-move-accuracy, and half the speed mods a master pistoleer gets, with utility-minded specials (aka dizzy, stun, blind, aoe with normal damage attacks, lock-on homing perfect acc. normal damage shots..in short, nothing like stopping shot or anything like that) would make the LP a very useful commando sidearm and it removes the weapon fromother proffession's hands, which can and DO use it to outperformeven master commandos in THEIR proffession's main role.
Hmm, perhaps give the LP specials at the top of the Field Tactics and Heavy Support weapons line that are extremely potent to discourage being a pistoleer and picking up novice commando just for the LP?
Either way, I'd personally prefer to see us use something else for standard anti-vehicular combat - I mean, it's a pistol! Shooting at vehicles with a dinky hand-gun just feels wrong.
someguyonline wrote:
Jawa-Sith-Lord wrote:
No other class should be required to make another class able to fulfil it's role.
Commandos still fill that role without Pistol mods. But they can fill it even better with the mods.
It's kind of a hardline statement you're making right now. I mean, virtually every other combat class is "complete", but could have more potential if combined with another class. Other than my Bounty Hunter examples, there are also the defense examples that can be combined through mastering multiple classes.
Commandos have very limited abilities to fulfil those roles as long as at least half of our weapons lines are bugged to the point of unusability and heavy wepons have accuracy and availability issues. So, we really have only two weapons that are very usable right now. The FT which has it's own limitations of range and cool-down with specials and the LP with which we have no specials or modifications except for those from the Marksman profession. And, yes, I do think my statement is pretty hard line. I also think it is accurate. I think combining another profession should add more flexibility in combat choices. It should not be working the way it currently is. There is no way a novice commando should be better with a commando only weapon than a Master commando simply because he has put points into a different class.
But seriously, what did you want to do with those 81 points? Dabble in other professions?
What I do with them is really up to me and what role I want to play in addition to commando. And, if you'll look at the sig, I already mastered Smuggler. So, not only am I a Slice & Spice Monkey, I also have some of the very abilities you talk about.
Jawa-Sith-Lord wrote:
Commandoes are supposed to be the anti-vehicle anti-fortification class. We are supposed to do high amounts of damage in an initial "shock" attack and have a long recovery period. We should be able to fulfil that role independent of taking any other classes. If we take another class, it should be to fulfil another role as well. Not make commando work right.
We do fill that roll and fill it well. But taking skill mods from Pistoleer isn't a quest to "fix" a broken weapon; it's just to make that weapon work better.
What's the big deal about that? It happens in many other professions. We have the skill points. It's just one weapon out of thirteen that is handled this way.
How many weapons do you use besides the LP and FT? How about others? Probably not that many. The scenario you have presented shows that I am a much more effective commando if I drop everything but novice and use those points for pistoleer. That is a problem. That is not the way it's supposed to work. The most effective person with a commando only weapon should be a Master commando. I think the information you have presented is important. But for a different reason than you do. You think it is important because it shows commandos how to be more effective. I see it as showing why the commando profession needs to be looked at and fixed. What you have shown is one of the problems.
We deserve some special move for the launcher pistol- as well as mods. I mean BH have their pistol, they get cool moves like eyeshot- why shouldnt we get them for our pistol? seems only fair. the problem is at the moment where do you put these special moves and mods?
We are without doubt the most messed up profession- lets see gernades plain DONT work. The HAR doesnt work. We have two viable weapons. Unarmed people can hit me at 21 meters- yet i still have to be at 16 for the flamethrower? Rockets are too hard to come by- and we lag everyone so no groups. we have to dabble to do any specials other than our marksman tree specials for a pistol weapon we are given - and our "tactics" line still doesnt add any terrain negotation ( AS IT SHOULD).
so while LP specials would be nice- im crossing my fingers on that
I would say no matter where your stance is on needing pistoleer to use LP, we do need our own stuff for it. Our own specials and maybe specific accuracy and speed to the LP that doesnt work with the other pistols.
I guess Ive decided whether pistoleer helps the LP or not, I dont really care, I just want my own abilities for it without being forced to take pistoleer for it to be worth a darn, and just specials wont do it, we need accuracy and speed, maybe not equal that of a pistoleer, but at least our own.