Commando Archive
Thread: Can we lose the fighting pre-req?
CyberData4
Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:45 pm
#14
I understand what you mean, but I disagree.
TKM/Commando: As cookie cutter as that is....it works. You get both mitigations. And a dizzy/KD. Combine that with a flame single....you're in business.
Commando/Pistoleer: Right now, this isn't that great of a PvP template but for PvE I think it's quite good. You can down AT-ST's with stopping shot using a laucher pistol easy as pie.
Commando/Carbineer: Ranged Dizzy/KD + Flame = See comments for Commando/TKM
Commando/Swordsman: Pure PvE template, pure fun. I've played all of these and have not been disappointed.
Also, keep in mind with the BH pre-req a commando could obtain the LLC cert.....that's not going to be a bad thing.
Ster
Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:00 pm
#15
Jazzminn wrote:
Just because bounty hunter is getting a boost with the skill points doesn't mean that now everyone can run upto the development team and ask for the same skill point boost. I understand that some of you want to master other interesting professions, but you can't have it your way all the time. I can just as well ask for removal of the ranged support requirement of the combat medic because I have no interest in getting marksman and I want to be master swordsman/master combat medic. It just doesn't work like that at all.
It would be nice, yes, to have less skill point requirement. I don't deny that. However, what's more important for us is to get our weapons, our specials, the bugs, and all the other broken things fixed first to improve our profession at its core. Whatever bounty hunters got is their issue. In fact, that change can only benefit us because it gives us more option to dabble into the bounty hunter tree. We have our own issues that we must deal with, and it shouldn't be a new "drop our skill point requirement" bandwagon.
Let's bring to the discussion table the more important things: HAR issue, the weapon switch delay issue, grenade issues, consumable weapons issue, accuracy issue, and all these other things that label our profession as broken except for the flame thrower.
I agree with Hellshot and Jazzminn. We actually have a tactical advantage right now with the DEVs due to how many skill points we have. BH is on our level now and, in all fairness, we are above them in the combat pecking order since all of our points are in combat related fields.
Our attention should be turned toward the revamp of the commando trees themselves and not to the pre-reqs. I am actually very anxious to hear what the DEVs have to say about Garvin's response to the weapons delay issue myself.
CyberData4
Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:31 pm
#16
"we are above them in the combat pecking order since all of our points are in combat related fields."
Wrong, skillpoints spent to get to novice are still skillpoints that HAVE to be spend to get to novice. It's not as if BH's can say,"hey...that scout isn't combat related...so I don't need it to get to BH"
BravenIrish
Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:36 pm
#17
Two words...No WAY!
It's like throwing away a bargaining chip!
Ster
Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:46 pm
#18
CyberData4 wrote:
"we are above them in the combat pecking order since all of our points are in combat related fields."
Wrong, skillpoints spent to get to novice are still skillpoints that HAVE to be spend to get to novice. It's not as if BH's can say,"hey...that scout isn't combat related...so I don't need it to get to BH"
You missed the point entirely. BHs have been holding it over everyone's head that they spend the most skill points and should be the strongest. As of friday they cannot say that anymore. If a profession had to get Master Artisan and the pistol tree in marksman and another had to get Master Marksman and Unarmed, which would you say should have the edge?The guy who crafted Speeders or the guy that spent more time killing things? Same thing. All in all it was good of them to do that for BHs. They needed the support and I am glad that they got it.
garvin
Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:00 pm
#19
Ask yourself this...
Which would you rather see...the removal of the Unarmed Pre-Req...
OR
Commandos gaining Melee Specials based on our Unarmed Pre-Req (similar logic to what is getting Smugglersunarmed specials intheir revamp) which may hopefully include a KD or other Status effects for us if we get them?
TH has stated often in the past that our power dictates our cost and Vice-Versa...he feels our cost is balanced for where we SHOULD be...the problem is that he, and the other devs have finally realized that we aren't where we SHOULD be and are supposedly making upgrades to usvia the Combat Rebalance that is upcoming...
Bounty Hunters are currently weak when compared to their cost...therefore the reduction in cost is to balance them against their abilities...they have one of the weakest defenses in game for starters...And keep this in mind, the Devs may very well take things away from BH's while they remove various Pre-Reqs...Who knows at this point why will happen, but it will be interesting to watch the outcome....
My personal opinion is that I'd like to keep the Unarmed Pre-Req if it means we have a chance at getting something like a Melee KD of our own...
Message Edited by garvin on 06-30-2004 05:02 PM
Restrik
Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:44 pm
#20
If we don't have to switch weapons, i think i'd be ok with having UA skills.
If we get UA skills i'd like them to be sorta like the gernades or rocket launcher where you "put down/aside your weapon" in order to use them. I just really hope that the new "tree" isn't going to be an unarmed tree because that'd mean we're still always in melee range, something that I dislike and why I'm going carbineer
BravenIrish
Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:52 pm
#21
Seriousely guys!
I wish I had more time earlier to get into HOW BAD us losing our 5th tree pre-req would be. Garvin summed it up well.
Put it this way...How many people had a leg to stand on if they made the statement "Bounty Hunters are Overpowerd"? Not many...ya know why? They spent the most sp in the game to get to where they were. Same with us...and rightly so! We spend a lot as well....AND THAT IS WHAT'S SUPPOSE TO MAKE US DIFFERENT!
I knew as soon as I read JustG's post to the BH forum that some "Commandos" would jump up and ask to remove Unarmed. I freakin knew it!
Long ago...the hardest tree for me to grind to become novice was Unarmed (And Carbine...then Rifle respectively. But that was a while back). When I finally had had enough unarmed and combat exp...I'll never forget the feeling of achievement to make Novice. I did BH first by the way...and Commando ment more. Never looked back. Through thick and thin...good and bad...better or worse (LOL)...Commando!
Through all this, most of my feelings and justification for us to be "better" had been our sacrafice of skill points to achieve Commando....AND NOW Commandos want to lose some of the experiance and requirements to justify us being better? My GOD!
If I was a Master Bounty Hunter for seven months, I'd be fuming! Instead of making Bounty Hunters better...they've made them more common. They've made them closer to average. Easier to achieve. Easier to dabble in. Closer to a regular ELITE class then a Hybrid. Unbelieveable! Even more so is the fact that fellow Commandos not only welcome this change...they actually invite the devs to downgrade us as well.
Personally, They can ADD a tree for us...Just make us BETTER. I refuse to accept more stupid skill points to justify our fubar proffession! KEEP the Pre-Req, and FIX US ACCORDINGLY!
Wheew. Sorry...ranting, but come on guys! Look at the bigger picture!
Restrik
Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:02 pm
#22
BravenIrish wrote:
Seriousely guys!
I wish I had more time earlier to get into HOW BAD us losing our 5th tree pre-req would be. Garvin summed it up well.
Put it this way...How many people had a leg to stand on if they made the statement "Bounty Hunters are Overpowerd"? Not many...ya know why? They spent the most sp in the game to get to where they were. Same with us...and rightly so! We spend a lot as well....AND THAT IS WHAT'S SUPPOSE TO MAKE US DIFFERENT!
I knew as soon as I read JustG's post to the BH forum that some "Commandos" would jump up and ask to remove Unarmed. I freakin knew it!
Long ago...the hardest tree for me to grind to become novice was Unarmed (And Carbine...then Rifle respectively. But that was a while back). When I finally had had enough unarmed and combat exp...I'll never forget the feeling of achievement to make Novice. I did BH first by the way...and Commando ment more. Never looked back. Through thick and thin...good and bad...better or worse (LOL)...Commando!
Through all this, most of my feelings and justification for us to be "better" had been our sacrafice of skill points to achieve Commando....AND NOW Commandos want to lose some of the experiance and requirements to justify us being better? My GOD!
If I was a Master Bounty Hunter for seven months, I'd be fuming! Instead of making Bounty Hunters better...they've made them more common. They've made them closer to average. Easier to achieve. Easier to dabble in. Closer to a regular ELITE class then a Hybrid. Unbelieveable! Even more so is the fact that fellow Commandos not only welcome this change...they actually invite the devs to downgrade us as well.
Personally, They can ADD a tree for us...Just make us BETTER. I refuse to accept more stupid skill points to justify our fubar proffession! KEEP the Pre-Req, and FIX US ACCORDINGLY!
Wheew. Sorry...ranting, but come on guys! Look at the bigger picture!
You....
You...I like....
I'm gonna keep you...<puts braveirish in his pocket>
Dasyra
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:47 pm
#23
Yeah I would like to see the unarmed remove.
It would let me master commando and master bh. Now that would be a fun combo though not prefect for PvP it would still have some nice specials.
Rachtor
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:36 am
#24
Well right now we do have that, and things still aren't better and haven't changed...Right?
I want to be able to use my existing skill points to enhance my commando not make him a dual character.
Especially since the new armour and weapon switching delays are now in effect.
Ster
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:41 am
#25
Rachtor wrote:
Well right now we do have that, and things still aren't better and haven't changed...Right?
I want to be able to use my existing skill points to enhance my commando not make him a dual character.
Especially since the new armour and weapon switching delays are now in effect.
I would have to say that the best response to that is the commando trees themselves need to be better and more useful. Or at least have more than 1 working tree.
Hellshot
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:54 am
#26
Ster wrote:
Rachtor wrote:
Well right now we do have that, and things still aren't better and haven't changed...Right?
I want to be able to use my existing skill points to enhance my commando not make him a dual character.
Especially since the new armour and weapon switching delays are now in effect.
I would have to say that the best response to that is the commando trees themselves need to be better and more useful. Or at least have more than 1 working tree.
I really think the best way to do this would be to make commando a sort of elite marksman type of profession, getting rid of the HAR and FT, merging field tactics and heavy weapons, and then adding in a tree for pistols, rifles, and carbines. We could then have the lp andeither 2 variants of an assault rifle/carbine, get the same certs as the elite professions (rifles and carbines), or get nothing extra like BH's. If the devs wanted to then look at the unarmed req as something more then as a skill pt dump/flavor, they could add in some unarmed/melee moves in the level 4 boxes of each tree.
I personally don't think this is the direction the devs will head since it would make commando highly redundant with bh, and they want each profession to be unique. I would rather see some changes that we have pushed for implemented to make commando a viable stand alone profession, instead of being the paper tanks with poor accuracy that we are presently.