Commando Archive
Thread: Combat Balance
Tenoio
Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:19 am
#170
before someone bites my headoff this idea is based fromthe table-top game'Warhammer 40,000'
how about a weapon based along the line of the powerfist, for those of you that don't know what it is, it's an armored glove(s) which is eletrically charge so that when used in melee it would deal a powerful electric shock to the unfortunate target, can't this idea be adapted for master TK's? now with more and more of 80% kenetic armor TK's i know (and me) are starting to find it difficult in PvP, all i ask is that you consider the idea, maybe run a poll or something to see how the other TK's like the idea
Galith
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:49 pm
#171
first off as about everybody here has said they need to fix the combos make then chain into each other or other moves and i think power boost could use some tweaking maybe be a lil stronger and definetly last a lil longer but this taking away our armor crap well thast for the birds i am sorry i know alot of you are oh its a good thing yeah say that when the pub rolls around and all the ranged classes arelaying you on your back like nothing and the fencers and other melee classesare running around wiht full armor laying you down faster you can blink we really should get our own class of armor cause with no resistance to anything we are nothing but sitting ducks only type of damage we wil be able to take really is kenetic and only a fraction of that cause unarmed toughness is a joke as is
i also think we need more damgetypes i dont care how lame and cheesy they have to get to design knucks or gloves or claws or whatever for us but we need some new damage types
i know about the heat all i can say is thank god and i hope they dont blow.........
anyways i wont ramble anymore
Galith
Galith
Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:19 pm
#172
i think i forgot to add in my post i would also greatly like to see a slight HAM cost cut back for us i have heard for a long time that TK and carbineer both were in line to get them and i hope both professions are carbineer although kinda blows and i have never been one i have many carbineer firneds and i feelthier pain they nearly kill themselves without ubber buffs and tk is almost same way wiht ubber buffs and ham cost vks anyways just thought i would post this as an add on to my prior post
Gohan_Trunksss
Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:57 pm
#173
I think TK could use ....
ranged deffence - PC and NPC kite a lot with ranged
melee defence - either melee deffence or to prevent stackers benefitting this, make it unarmed toughness
DEFFINITELY more dmg type weapons, kenetic and heat wont be enough
TK are supposed to be good against NPC but yet a lot of NPC are IMMUNE to us, janta and mokk stoneshapers are 100% kenetic, and not sure heat % but then tusken observer is around 80-90 % kenetic and 100% heat..... how are we supposed to outdamage another class if we have dmg types that are very high immuned by the enemy?
how about STUN vk's? stun is very effective against NPC humanoid, TK are suppsoed to be good at humanoid NPC but we arent as good as we should be, stun would be good, heck every other profession mainly has this dmg, why cant we?
NEW TK MOD- run speed in combat - sence everyone loves to kite melee people, let us have a mod that makes us run a bit faster when in combat so we can catch up , it doesnt have to be too fast but just enough to slowly catch up to enemy
Make Unarmed hit 3 aim twords one pool (this could overpower us but wouldnt hurt to mess with it see what happens, random pool hits just suck when every other profession can hit a specific pool using like bodyshot 3 and all we get is bodyHit 1 ect.....)
Take note, my ideas are pointed twords PvE, i dont mean for them to overpower or favor TK in any way, but we sereously need stuff to be fixed and added to help us.
Take away ALL 100% resistant from creatures and NPC humanoids and cap the resistants at 95% so no matter what damage type, you can still fight back.
thats all i got for now.
EDIT #1
HAM should regen a bit faster when meditating (thats RL stuff, RL people meditate for physical and mental healing)
Message Edited by Gohan_Trunksss on 07-13-2004 07:35 PM
Gohan_Trunksss
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:02 pm
#174
Teioh wrote:
I'd like to see:
1/6 of current dmg output
Make it so you can't do specials if you wear armor
Decrease the maxXP cap from a creature from 5000 down to 1000
Halve accuracy and speed
Message Edited by Teioh on 06-27-2004 01:50 PM
by seeing this, i know your not a TK, you do not know our problems, if they followed this then id say every other profession would have 100 HAM
Gademis
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:06 pm
#175
I'm really happy with my TKm as it is. I got some other prof trees as well to stack some defs so what I'd want for the revamp is:
1. Fix broken abilities. Well not many of them left. So fix def acuity. And don't make it stack. The idea with secondary defences is that they stack for the same weapon family, eg. one handed, polearms-rifles etc. And anyway it would be just another nobrained reason for fencers to cry and flame their forums.
2. Allow dabbling. Since you got the Skill Points why not stack? It's the only way to fight tougher mobs and allows more character advancement. I don't really like taking new proffs for new weaps. I just pick other proffs to learn the tricks of their trade (eg. resistances)
3. Since there 'll be an armor revamp too, which includes armor certifications, I propose giving us two or three certs max, which include fitting for our role armors. Like tantel. I know this armor really sucks but I guess that if TKs begin byuing it Armorsmiths will improve it. And put a master certification for RIS. Armors like these make tks look good. As for the robes I think it would be really good, but then again it would be a proffesion specific armor. Noone has specific armors, so if TKs get one, everybody will want one too. And that's quite too much for a single publish.
4. Meditation healing is not a very good idea. With low HAM cost armor we will heal faster anyway. Composites will be reserved for the heavy weap guys, like commandos. For not being overpowered I think med is just fine. Well making it last a wee bit longer would be nice, since large PvP battles do exist and last like half an hour. And since people want to take TK for our med tree just let them. We do that too for their defs.
5. Leave our defensive and offensive abilites as they are. Multi HAM attaks are good as we don't have levels on them (eg. head hit 2 etc). Unarmed toughness is arguably our best defence and what keeps us compared against all other melee professions. Melee and Ranged defence is just what we need. Not too much and not too less.
6. As we are a very versatile proffesion with a bunch of possibilities in attack, with state and HAM attacks, I believe that it would be fair to leave only one or two damage types. It would be unfair for other proffesions to have so many options and many damage types. Just please for the sake of roleplaying make VKs look like knucklers. Not like the hatchet hands from Diablo 2 assasins. Or change their name to wrist blades or something.
7. What I'd like to stress here is that no mob should have 100% res to anything, except for the possibility of stun. Cap the resistances at 95%. Even with that we can drop the damn thing down. Leave the 100% stun res since constructs (AT-STs) or buildings (turrets, nests) don't get stunned anyway.
8. I left the comparison to Jedi last. There is no comparison. Jedis are what they are meant to be. Uber class. Noone is meant to solo a Jedi Knight. Ofcourse that is no reason to make our skills not work against a Jedi. Unarmed toughness should work against lightsabers as it's not like making your skin more resistant (you're not a mutant, or from planet Crypton) to hits but being able to focus on the melee fight and ignoring the hits. That goes same for melee defence and defensive acuity.
9. There always will be people who will cry to make their class uber or nerf another class. That happens mostly for three reasons, with the following order:
a) they got beaten by someone who fought smarter.
b) they got beaten by a Jedi.
c) they got beaten by an overpowered class that really does need nerfing. And that goes only for CM templates.
So please don't be a crybaby and think and post rationaly. And read OnlyMaestro's PVP guide. For god's sake I've even seen posts even on the Jedi forum with people thinking that Jedis need to be even more powerfull. That doesn't mean that devs should listen to them.
1. Fix broken abilities. Well not many of them left. So fix def acuity. And don't make it stack. The idea with secondary defences is that they stack for the same weapon family, eg. one handed, polearms-rifles etc. And anyway it would be just another nobrained reason for fencers to cry and flame their forums.
2. Allow dabbling. Since you got the Skill Points why not stack? It's the only way to fight tougher mobs and allows more character advancement. I don't really like taking new proffs for new weaps. I just pick other proffs to learn the tricks of their trade (eg. resistances)
3. Since there 'll be an armor revamp too, which includes armor certifications, I propose giving us two or three certs max, which include fitting for our role armors. Like tantel. I know this armor really sucks but I guess that if TKs begin byuing it Armorsmiths will improve it. And put a master certification for RIS. Armors like these make tks look good. As for the robes I think it would be really good, but then again it would be a proffesion specific armor. Noone has specific armors, so if TKs get one, everybody will want one too. And that's quite too much for a single publish.
4. Meditation healing is not a very good idea. With low HAM cost armor we will heal faster anyway. Composites will be reserved for the heavy weap guys, like commandos. For not being overpowered I think med is just fine. Well making it last a wee bit longer would be nice, since large PvP battles do exist and last like half an hour. And since people want to take TK for our med tree just let them. We do that too for their defs.
5. Leave our defensive and offensive abilites as they are. Multi HAM attaks are good as we don't have levels on them (eg. head hit 2 etc). Unarmed toughness is arguably our best defence and what keeps us compared against all other melee professions. Melee and Ranged defence is just what we need. Not too much and not too less.
6. As we are a very versatile proffesion with a bunch of possibilities in attack, with state and HAM attacks, I believe that it would be fair to leave only one or two damage types. It would be unfair for other proffesions to have so many options and many damage types. Just please for the sake of roleplaying make VKs look like knucklers. Not like the hatchet hands from Diablo 2 assasins. Or change their name to wrist blades or something.
7. What I'd like to stress here is that no mob should have 100% res to anything, except for the possibility of stun. Cap the resistances at 95%. Even with that we can drop the damn thing down. Leave the 100% stun res since constructs (AT-STs) or buildings (turrets, nests) don't get stunned anyway.
8. I left the comparison to Jedi last. There is no comparison. Jedis are what they are meant to be. Uber class. Noone is meant to solo a Jedi Knight. Ofcourse that is no reason to make our skills not work against a Jedi. Unarmed toughness should work against lightsabers as it's not like making your skin more resistant (you're not a mutant, or from planet Crypton) to hits but being able to focus on the melee fight and ignoring the hits. That goes same for melee defence and defensive acuity.
9. There always will be people who will cry to make their class uber or nerf another class. That happens mostly for three reasons, with the following order:
a) they got beaten by someone who fought smarter.
b) they got beaten by a Jedi.
c) they got beaten by an overpowered class that really does need nerfing. And that goes only for CM templates.
So please don't be a crybaby and think and post rationaly. And read OnlyMaestro's PVP guide. For god's sake I've even seen posts even on the Jedi forum with people thinking that Jedis need to be even more powerfull. That doesn't mean that devs should listen to them.
AriesFusion
Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:35 am
#176
Hello my fellow Teras Kasi. I have not spoken on here in a very long time. Here are my comments on how to balance everything.
Point 1- No ranged modifiers. I mean come on everyone knows the story of the black belt and the guy with the gun. Gun wins, everytime. Now a martial artist with a gun, that's equilibrium stuff that maybe implimented later.
Point 2-we need dodge, block, call it what you want. 70% of martial arts is defense. The basic moves they teach you are the first three blocks. We need to at least rival fencers with blocks, and maybe in the higher levels, learn how to take a weapon from an opponent at very close range.
Point 3- move all meditation skills into master tk or higher. Dabblers suck. I read earlier on this post a TK 4 0 0 0 does the same powerboost a master Tk does. That's crap. either move the skill into master, or make a way so that powerboost maybe takes all the mind into the other pools instead or something to give us our props.
Point 4- Get rid of our combo moves. they are good moves but when you're fighting against a fully buffed, heavy composite opponent, it's really not applicable. Replace them with some sort of armor peircing or something. I mean hey martial artists can break through like 12 bricks and countless boards, yet we can't hit through any armor in this game. Ubese is a frickin robe. or i suggest implimenting a move that makes the opponent get the wind knocked out of them. This would give us a DOT and keep us on par with commandos, docs, combat medics, the bleed from fencer and two handed swordsman and still have it class oriented.
Point 5- Like the idea for MASTER Tk robes. maybe have a novice robe and a master robe. of course different properties but something to say, hey all this grinding did something for me.
Point 6- on different damage types. that would be a hard thing to justify. In the game i mean all the devs would have to do is go "click" now you have a stun VK. But in real life, it would be hard to justify flamming fists. but this will be solved in the next point
Point 7- Get rid of buffs in this game. in real life even steriods have down sides. There is no way you can buff a person physically without haveing a side effect. this proposal will make al ot of docs mad and combat medics furious but if we have no buffs, leave the armor in you will have a game where everyone is more or less on the same plane when it comes to fighting and fighting would be like it should be, strategy. Right now the game is like if you are buffed in full composite on food, you own. That's not how it should be. The most skilled and creative fighter should own, not some tk novice that has food and buffs.
About the dabblers, like i said screw them. i say if anything the devs give us LESS skill points. Maybe enough to master an elite profession and a novice one. Enough of this 4000 tk, 0440 fencer, Master medic, whatever else crap. A martial artist who trains in nothing but martial arts will take a dabbler anyday.
Faitt
Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:18 pm
#177
TKs should lose any and all TK abilities if they wear any sort of armor.
Wearing Armor = Unarmed Tree mods only.
I play a wookiee that uses no VKs, nor armor, and i fare just fine. So those saying it would be the end of us, are wrong. Re-think your game.
Takearmor away, and it leaves a 'balance' issue to bargain with. maybe robes would be the answer. maybe a slight increase to defensive mods..
(but atmI currently have 160+melee defense, 118+ranged, 120+KDdefense, 100+posturechange, 40-55+ in all other defensivestun, intim, etc.. without spending alot to get these, btw.. Basically, put me in armor, I'm untouchable, and if this is how some are playing, I can easily see the call for balance, that's insane.)
Even in suited today's Kevlar (which is a FAR cry from composite armor), the moves of the TKM could not be done w/o some cost to its efficiency of the user. (plainspeak: the damage/reactions shouldn't be the same as someone who has no restrictions to their movements)
my 2creds
AriesFusion
Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:13 pm
#178
Get rid of buffs, and revamp the armor, that right there is a rebalance in itself
Gohan_Trunksss
Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:07 am
#179
AriesFusion wrote:
Get rid of buffs, and revamp the armor, that right there is a rebalance in itself
Get some good buffs, good armor and take one step in Death Watch Bunker by yourself, let me know what happenes
then imagine how itd be if buffs are taken out. 
i agree though, game too based on buffs to fight. but we cant weararmor without them :-/
Message Edited by Gohan_Trunksss on 07-16-2004 01:08 AM
Xodarap777
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:15 am
#180
Gademis wrote:
a) they got beaten by someone who fought smarter.
b) they got beaten by a Jedi.
c) they got beaten by an overpowered class that really does need nerfing. And that goes only for CM templates.
I have to add something here: riflemen. Say what you want, but I am very good in PvP. I get beaten one-on-one maybe 5% of the time. But I refuse to continue to fight against double-sliced jawa ion rifles with headhit3, mind-flame/poison polearms, or CM poisons/diseases.
On that note: I would like to see the devs implement loot weapons with modded stats for ALL professions EQUALLY. Why should polearm users get all of the crazy weapons? They get plenty of good specials and high-damage, high-range weapons. +400 to mind flame damage, switch weapon, +400 to mind poison, switch weapon, +200 to mind disease -- that can't be considered fair in any sense in PvP. That's like getting to be a shock trooper that hits mind (for WAY moreDOT than any flame single), a *very* well-equipped CM, and a master pikeman, all for just the points of themaster pikeman. Yes, someone did this to me the other day. As stated, I am very good in PvP, but I can't heal mind. There was NOTHING I could have done to beat this guy. It was not about fighting smarter. I even pulled a center-of-being then warcry, got him on the ground, stunned and intimidated him,kept my dizzy on him, and head-hit like mad. Icouldn't dent him through his 86% resist to kinetic and his high-powered PSG. He eventually got up andhit me. That's all it took.
Don't get me wrong, like I said: I think all weapons should have nice loot possibilities, not that none of them should. Looting is fun, I like going to POIs and looting. And looting is essential to any good MMORPG. But when was the last time you saw a looted VK?
Xodarap777
Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:24 am
#181
Seph_Iroth wrote:
i just want to say we arnet ninjas. at all. not even close. if anything we need yellow bruce lee jumpsuits instead of armor
True and good point. Ninjas stalk silently through the night and kill their targets while they sleep. They use poisoned shuriken and katanas. There is nothing ninja-like about us. Karate, yes; ninjitsu, no.