Commando Archive
Thread: Here ya go Hard Evidence that we are not PvP gods
As much as I respect the work that Ivoni has done on behalf of our class, there is no way that the test results can be considered valid. The sample pool is way too shallow to give any value to the results. If you want to see a real look at game mechanics and how they effect us and other classes, look at this post
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=fencer&message.id=11313
In Ivoni's test, if the commando had hit on the first shot, the time to incap would have been 0 and at worst, tied for best of all the classes. Want to see how our damage over time works compared to other classes, stand beside someone with master in their class and attack a lair, watch the damage spam from your's and their's. Compare their normal hit damage and their special damage to just your normal damage. Since we can't dot lairs, we actually do more damage overtime with normal attacks than with specials. Good thing about the lairs is that you never miss and there is no ap or resists to factor in as well.
Are we PvP gods even though we can do huge damage and have a very powerful dot? No, a commando solo facing someone from another class prepared with the possiblity of combat with a commando that works their strengths and our weaknesses can do well. Some one unprepared or surprised by us will fall, but that is true for any player/class.
If I was to compare our class to an actual real world one, I would use combat engineer. The ones trained to go in against difficult, fortified, booby trapped, determined defenders or intended to make a concerted foccused attack fail with their skills. The situation that this is used in is one with dedicated support. We are a group PvP class and we really shine in those situations. Want to have the best fun possible as a commando, go and assult a player faction base or defend one as part of a big group against another big group. In this situation we actually have 3 trees that work well as compared to just one in others.
Commando is not the only class well suited to multiply the effectiveness of their group vs another. Other classes are carbine, polearm, combat medic, doctor,and squad leader. These are classes that either have great aoe attacks or improve effectiveness.
On my server the Imp guilds seem to be consistently made up with people that are fencer/pistoleers, TKM's. BH's and such. Outnumbered my guild can easily defeat these expert individual fighters because we come with aoe and dot, individually our damage may be less, but group to group our damage overtime far exceeds.
Like i have said before, what you can do solo is unimportant in a group game.
Listen guys heres the deal. I have no hard data to prove anything, there already too much of that in this thread, all Im hear to do is say something.
Ivoni did not create this post to go "Hah! See ! We arent Uber! Now make us more Uber, and make everyone else WEAKER!" He is more saying "Alright guys Im fed up with it. Everyone stop assuming Im some sort of PvP God. Heres proof that Im not!"
Most commandoes can say with me that everyone assumes that in PvP we are the be all and end all. This thread isnt here to say that we need to be stronger in PvE, cause we dont. Hes simply putting this here so people can look at it and go "Yeah theyre strong in PvE, but I guess In PvP they arent all that."
In PvE we do dish out alot of damage...and we should. thats the point of our class. And we take huge downfalls for it in PvP. We arent saying to nerf anyone, or to make us stronger. We are all just sick and tired of everyone saying we are all that in PvP, cause we just arent. This is not a "Nerf them not us!" post. It is simply a post telling people to stop assuming we were Gods, cause we really are not. Our class is broken, just like everyone elses.Do we need some love and attention? YES! But we are not a priority. Id say that goes to Be's and De's. This is not an "anit-nerf" post, and we are not lying. We just want everyone to be less accusing of us being gods, and realize that we are very powerful in some aspects, and pitifully weak in others.
In short. To all of you accusing us of lieing, anti nerf crying, or calling on the nerf bat, we arent. We are just saying that we dont need to be nerfed either.
1. quit complaining about the flame DOT. if u get hit by a FT your gonna be on fire.... your character should either run around screaming, stop drop and roll, or jump in a lake. do u disagree?? thought not. their flames. they burn. thats what they do.... get over it.
The truth hurts...literally...I almost fell out of my chair...
PacketStorm (WAR)
Novice Commando - Tattoine (New Rome)
Yachew wrote:
Well this is kinda evidence that we are not pvp gods, but today, and its happened before, I dueled someone and they started running so i chased them and kept hitting flame single 2 from 13m away, but it said I was out of range, does anyone else have this problem?
Yes, i found an answer to this problem. You was proobably targeting something else, and its was out of range.
I think everyone has touched on the reasons that no one is broken (except maybe BH/Pistoleer) for this very reason - there is a way to deal with ANY class quickly. All the classes are uber in the right circumstances. Even the BH/Pistoleercould prolly be dealt with effectively by a carbineer with a good laser carbine sliced for speed, and pup'd for speed/ideal range. Commando's do the most dmg? Yeah, that is prolly right, but at the expense of several things. Accuracy, speed, no knockdowns, dizzy, etc, 3x dmg from melee. We have to put ourselves in an ideal situation to have a reasonable chance to hit someone and get the "high front loaded dmg" and flame DOT everyone talks about. Oh, btw, did I mention that the ideal situation for us to kick ass also happens to be the ideal situation to get our asses kicked, i.e. point blank range. There is no perfect combo of classes for every situation, this is as it should be. You figure out your strengths and weaknesses, then develop strategies/class mixes to offset your weaknesses and bring your strengths into play, then hope luck is on you side and go fight, it isn't too difficult to figure out.
bounty77 wrote:
For all you TKM saying you'll just come and KD me that makes me laugh i garntee you cant kd me. I got every kind of kd defence i got TKA defence Pistoleer defence and pikemen defence...and if you are going to just Unarmed hit 3 im always buffed and it'll take along time to incap me
Well, if i calculate right, you are 0000 Commando then =)
Thanx for stopping by, but i guess you missed the point of this thread!
Dogg
bounty77 wrote:
For all you TKM saying you'll just come and KD me that makes me laugh i garntee you cant kd me. I got every kind of kd defence i got TKA defence Pistoleer defence and pikemen defence...and if you are going to just Unarmed hit 3 im always buffed and it'll take along time to incap me
I would like to correct my former statement. This might actually work. Enough points for Master commando (7 left, no terrain negotiation, no speed modifier or accuracy modifier for the pistol).
You will have formidable Defenses.
Unfortunately i would devastate you. I Kite you, plain and simple. I will just spam last ditch, while dodging all your OC2 Shots. You do not have a single weapon line that has enough accuracy to hit me. All you achieved is that it takes longer to kill you. You still have no chnace to kill me. (please do not mistake it for bragging. I am just tired of repeating numbers, hence i speak from personal experience).
But i must congratualte you to erase one weakness of the Commando (missing defense). Unfortunately even that bright insight will not grant you enough persistence or effectivity in PvP to sway the tides to your advantage. face it: Commandos suck in PvP. They are but artillery, unable to take out defensive templates in an outright assault. You will just feel like the rangers when they landed at the shore of the normandy just to run into the fire of the machine gune emplacements.
Dogg
ncie job on this
the commando was missing alot....all commandos miss alot..i miss alot...until i learned the secret of life as a commando...make a simple macro and replace you flamesingle/cone with:
/aim
/flame<whatever move it is>
this slows your attack a second or two but its worht it to prevent a a miss and the ten second delay before u can flame again