Commando Archive
Thread: 2 bothersom things from tonight's HOC chat
Olsson -
All understandable. A few things, though:
When I asked if weapon type defined a class, my personal answer was "in some cases, maybe. In most, no." Commando I would consider to be one of those cases where it is. I wasn't that specific, no. For the purposes of what I was saying, it didn't seem necessary, but perhaps it was.
I'm sure, that you and several other people here have been perfectly reasonable in previous posts-- I was making a commentary on THIS feedback. Having read through the entire thread, it seemed to be devolveing rather badly into, well, we've all seen it on these forums. I don't need to elaborate. However, I realize that I've come off in a lecturing tone, where I was attempting to try and remind people to try and retain some perspective. Believe me, I know how in furiating trying to maintain one's cool when dealing with this stuff can be, but I stand by the need to do so.
I'd also like to make a side apology-- when i first posted, I popped here from the Dev Tracker, and Lithium wasn't showing it as the Commando forum, so I'd rather thought I was in a more generalized area. It's happened before. >< Most of my specific commentary can be related to this basic mis-assumption, so if you feel compelled, go right ahead and toss it aside.
Personally, the level thing doesn't bother me. We've always had them... just not where we can see them-- difficulty levels and the associated conning were, while not quite what we've got, still levels. Now, of course, the levels mean soemthing, because there's mods attached. And the levels no longer change when we swap weapons. Is it the right move? I don't know. I like it, a lot of other people do, or don't care. A lot don't. Frankly, my opinion shouldn't color yours, and I expect it won't. But that's something I didn't do a good enough job leaving out.
Is the weapon certing good or bad? If the level system stays, it's going to be necessary for a lot of people. However, yes, I agree, it totally breaks you guys. But I also believe it was an honest mistake that will be rectified. If it isn't, I'll be right there telling the devs to fix it with you, I expect, having done a stint as a commando and learned great affection for it in that time.
As to the "be specific", etc, etc.. that was specifically aimed to answer the question Khog posed, though I couldn't remember who to adress it to by the time I got to writing it. In my experience, it's just the best way that one can deal with these or any devs, and one just has to keep it up. Not saying you haven't done so. But there was a question, and that's my advice, after my time here and elsewhere. Frustrating, yes, but you have to keep at it. As soon as you let yourself slip outside that mindset and post accordingly, you've most likely lost your voice. I wouldn't want to see it happen here. You've got a Dev talking, to at least some degree. We can assume he's listening, too, be as my that may be optimistic. To the comment that scared devs mean obviously something is wrong... perhaps. but scaring off your devs when they finally talk to you, however much they arent' saying, isn't going to fix anything. And that should be everyone's goal, I think.
Also, uselessnoob-- yes, I would agree, that general statements about the feedback dont' apply to many of the people here. I'll mention again, with apologies, that I thought I was in an entirely other forum at the time, where the sort of statements I was reading and reacting to are rather more virulent and commonplace. As to the broken profession... sure, i understand it. I'm a Smuggler. So i'll revise my commentary to this:
I fully support that the commando certs are in need of fixing to be commando-specific. I believe the existing cert nightmare was made in error and will be fixed, and I'll be pretty upset if it isn't, Commando or not. You can strike my second point, because it was only appropriate for a non-profession forum, which I'd thought was where I was. And finally, I realize your're frustrated; we've all been there. Some, more than most, and I think we can all name the most beat-upon few professions. I'd urge you to keep up the level of quality and hold back from emotional outbursts, though, as you have a dev active in your boards(which is a lot more than most can say-- I think it's just you guys and AS that really have their attention right now), and while it may not seem like you're getting through, now's not the time to relent nor let it devolve to a point that's beneath you, since you've got a chance to get heard again. Sure, there's call to be scaring devs in this fashion, but if what's really important is getting through, thre's no sense making it harder to do so-- which is really what I'm trying to say, there. Sure, it's not really worked before, but my take on the dev communication situation is that we should do everything we can to avoid discouraging it. If that means patiently explaining soemthing for the 50th time to the dev that just wandered in, then so be it. It's very likely the only way something's getting done. But I digress, and don't mean to come on all preachy. I just really want to see you guys succeed to some extent.
And on a side note, Olsson, thanks for being patient with me on what was, basically, a glaring error of premise on my part regarding what forum the thread was running on. I swear, I've been in the general threads too much lately, and I'm starting to really hate how quirky Lithium is as a BBS, as if I didn't already. And apologies to all the other commandos here that my erringly generalized postings managed to tick off. It was not intended in the vein that it turned out to be in.
Helios_SOE wrote:
Novock wrote:
1. A new system will be brought in making weapons certed by level rather than proffession.
Weapon certs can now be tied to a combat level + a specific skill box + a specific race
So, all three of these scenarios could happen:
1. Weapon is certed to anyone with a combat level of at least X
2.Weapon is certed to anyone witha combat level of at least X AND have achieved Skill Box N
3. Weapon is certed to anyone with a combat level of at least X AND have achieved Skill Box N AND is of raceK.
Most weapons currently fall into "1", some fall into "2" (mostly iconic and profression defining weapons) and very few(currently only bowcasters)fall into "3".
Helios, sorry but this is stupid.
All weapons should hang on if you know that skill, and in the case of bowcasters are also a wookiee. Anything else just opens up rediculous situations. I seriously don't see the point here...
In fact, now you can just remove all weapons from their certed areas and make them everyone can get. OMG... this removes the independdance of professions...
It's cool we can use the moves we KNOW with different weapons, but it is NOT cool that we can use weapons we haven't been trained to use.
Message Edited by RSQViper on 04-14-2005 09:18 AM
CorbinDraken wrote:
sweet! commando weapons at lvl 54!!!!! that is awesome, now I can have all the arsenal of commando! Guess that eliminates dilema of choosing between Commando and Rifleman! This CU may not be such a bad thing after all!!! Why is everyone mad if this is implemented....you can now allocate those skill points to something else. This mitigates some of the negative things of CU heh
Because it will now creat templates. People will become the same thing for defenses and just be able to use other weapons anyway. There is no thought process here, it's insane. Why should a lvl 4 TKM/Master Fencer be able to use a DL44-XT? Or a Flame Thrower for that matter? Or any gun of any kind?
They shouldn't.
CorbinDraken wrote:
sweet! commando weapons at lvl 54!!!!! that is awesome, now I can have all the arsenal of commando! Guess that eliminates dilema of choosing between Commando and Rifleman! This CU may not be such a bad thing after all!!! Why is everyone mad if this is implemented....you can now allocate those skill points to something else. This mitigates some of the negative things of CU heh
The thing they are mitigating is the problem this level crap made possible. In Live if I wanted to become a swordsman I would pick up an axe and start on noob criiters but now in the CU I can right for a power hammer and off to Dant I go to grind. Not because I want to but because I have to since worts and thier ilk would give me no xp. This is painfully stupid.
Sky is not falling. Wait for more info.
RankorCity wrote:
1) I dont care about BH. I care about Commando. Feed that line to someone else. You guys KEPT your weapon certificates (I could be wrong, as I said - I DONT CARE ABOUT BH) Only the Master Certs, as far as I know.
In a lot of cases BH and Commando are in the same boat hence my comment of comparing the two.
2) If you want X profession master level weapon THEN GO SPEND THE SKILL POINTS TO GET IT.
I guess I have to be more blunt, so you can understand it. When I made the statement that people will want the Master level weapon because of DPS, it was to point out that they'd have to MASTER that profession. From my understanding those will not be available.
3) THAT IS NOT THE POINT
Actually, that is exactly the point, and why the certs were changed.
4) See number 2
See my response to number 2.
Tanks wrote:
Sky is not falling. Wait for more info.
RankorCity wrote:
1) I dont care about BH. I care about Commando. Feed that line to someone else. You guys KEPT your weapon certificates (I could be wrong, as I said - I DONT CARE ABOUT BH) Only the Master Certs, as far as I know.
In a lot of cases BH and Commando are in the same boat hence my comment of comparing the two.
2) If you want X profession master level weapon THEN GO SPEND THE SKILL POINTS TO GET IT.
I guess I have to be more blunt, so you can understand it. When I made the statement that people will want the Master level weapon because of DPS, it was to point out that they'd have to MASTER that profession. From my understanding those will not be available.
3) THAT IS NOT THE POINT
Actually, that is exactly the point, and why the certs were changed.
4) See number 2
See my response to number 2.
No, sorry. The whole idea is not smart as it just introduces true levels into the game. This isn't the SWG I signed up for on 6-24-2003. MAKE THIS STOP!
Skills are what SWG is all about, not levels. This disgusts me as this was the #1 reason I got this game.
Tanks wrote:
Sky is not falling. Wait for more info.
This is very true. They should give us all the ability to morph and fly around the planets by flapping our arms all the while Banthas pay worship to us and Krayts do somersaults accross the Tatooine Sea. After that let's go check out the Hutt sychronized swimming event. I hear it's top-notch.
CorbinDraken wrote:
Granted, no argument...none in the least....however, this game is getting ready to become unrecognizable in any fashion compared to our current system....just go with it heh Many things dont make sense...this is just another....for instance at lvl 1 a gnat hatchlingcan triple incap you in 30 seconds while driving by it.......yet...if you group with a friend that's lvl 30 all of a sudden that gnat hatchling or it's parents for that mattercan't even breakyour skin.....logic got thrown out of the window when this thing was introduced.....i know everytime i punch a wall I am blinded by a bright white light....when i go shoot things at a target range I am always mystified by an aurora of blue light
Cornith wrote:
Tanks wrote:
Sky is not falling. Wait for more info.
Big chucks of it are hitting the ground as we speak.
Tanks, with all due respect, your profession still has a PURPOSE, OUR PURPOSE WAS JUST REMOVED. THere is now NO reason to be a commando at all.
Especially since our weapons have their abilities built INTO THEM.
/dodge chunk of sky