Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Combat Medic Fixes!

Brainplay
Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:46 am
#79






D3st0r wrote:

From what I understood, Havla was put in-game to give Doctors more of an edge to balance them out vs CMs with Area Poisons, then docs can cure every second before the CM has the chance to throw more. Am I wrong in assuming that this was the way it was intended to work? The only thing that wasnt intended was CMs being able to use it to spam poisons.







Probably. No reason was given as to why any of the chef food/drinks were implemented and we were left to decide for ourselves how best to use. But once again you are assuming things where you have no info at all.



Just glad they fixed the havla issue and the range isssue. Yes they were great and sometimes expensive gimicks but took out alot of the skill. Frankly it still needs to be removed. As one person put it, if we cant have it no one should. Especially doctors since they get more and more skills every month.


Other issues: Incredibly low spawn rates


MIND vulnerability (hopefully with the combat revamp)


Lack of diversity for curing abilities between ALL professions


Resist foods ineffectiveness


Lack of mitigation abilities (hopefully with the smuggler revamp)


Lack of medical support abilities for a class that cost more points than doctor and is intended for combat.


I can go into dozens of reasons why melee and defense stacking need serious nerfing but at least one of those is being capped in the revamp.


I abstain from the boards for2 days and they go and do something like this. Well at least they did something right for a while. Now lets see if they can address the other issues.






Keorythe

h Combat Medic h


/Forcing Counterstrike PvPers to PvE since 2003 \






A Combat Medic Alpha tester who never got the chance to alpha test

David25
Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:49 am
#80

hopefully the quickfix doesn't screw something else up though...


/agrees with brainplay
earlmarinus
Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:51 am
#81

Guys congradulations on the long time fixes. Trust me this is not a nerf to you guys at all. This actually puts other professions a fighting chance in PVP and fun times should be around the corner again. I been with a profession where we been nerfed (Bounty Hunter) beyond belief. The developers have finally given us some great loving and glad to see they are working on other professions too. Good luck with the changes!



Opasish Starsider: Master Bounty Hunter / Master Carbineer / Imperial Ace Pilot

Blatel Starsider:Master TKA / Master Fencer / Master Swordsman

Brainplay
Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:00 am
#82

You guys know what the really really sad thing is here? Even after they announce the capping of throwing range to 64m AND the issue with havla putting CM's at or near the one second cap for throwing, people are still whining and looking for other things to whine about. Both of those were major issues and both are solved.


You'd think there would be alot of people mighty happy about all of this. But of course they aren't and keep posting the same dumb 75% nerf idea instead of any of the half dozen DARN GOOD ideas posted all over the boards. And whats worse is that we're still running tests to see if it affected our healing abilities and the criers.....just...dont...care.



p.s.- I know ALL of the dirty tricks and I learned them from nerf criers on this board.......ok well like 80% of them are wrong.





Keorythe

h Combat Medic h


/Forcing Counterstrike PvPers to PvE since 2003 \






A Combat Medic Alpha tester who never got the chance to alpha test

Happymob
Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:05 am
#83






jdmaldo wrote:
quick question

this "core group of cms" that you all speak so highly of... are those the guys that where the first cms on your servers? the guys who owned the crap out of everyone and were godly elite before anyone else figured out cm was the win? the same group of guys who are now pissed that everyone has their godly profession?




We definitely did not own the crap out of everyone early on. Early PvP was all about bounty hunters with eyeshot and various professions spamming knockdowns. It later changed to commandos flaming everyone. Then it became combat medic suicide bombers. Several things changed to make combat medics the most powerful offensive force in group PvP:



  • CHs got nerfed

  • Knockdown timers wre added

  • 75% PvP damage reduction was put into place (except for healing and dots)

  • Armor got much better

  • Commando dots got nerfed

  • Bleeds which bypassed armor were nerfed

  • Defense stacking templates became more sophisticated reducing the power of normal attacks

  • Resources have gotten better over time (which has had more effect on poisons than weapons)

  • The 2 broken combat medic subcomponents were fixed

The last one is key. For the first several months, we couldn't create nearly unresistable, 96m bombs since the adanced subcomponents controlling range and potency were broken. Our power did go up due to the bug fixes and the power of certain other professions went down. Not surprisingly, we attracted a lot of FOTMers.


Don't kid yourself though - if they reduce our damage by 75%, in 2 weeks you will see armies of riflemen/doctorsinstead of combat medics. PvP will be just as boring for the majority of professions. The real problem is not combat medic damage and it never has been. The real problem is mind damage in general. In the era of 80% composite, 2500 strength buffs, and 450 power Stim-Bs, nothing else matters in PvP except mind damage.

Message Edited by Happymob on 07-09-2004 07:11 AM



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jfang
Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:33 am
#84






Loonytic wrote:

I'm a little concerned thatthis isgoingto be another this quick fix without thinking it through. Fixing the range is fine but if they are just simplygoing to hardcap range then they've just made is a very dabble friendly class as people won't need to pick up the range tree (or much of it) in order to hit the cap.







You forget that the CM Effectiveness skill is in the samebranch as healing range, so that skill tree will (almost) never be neglected.


Also, assuming they put a hard cap on it, it would not make the class especially more dabble friendly. Assuming you want to throw at 65m with effectiveness experimented poisons, you will still need 4xx4 combat medic. I found that my base packs without experimenting range let me hit 64m at 4444 combat medic. A 3xx4 combat medic would start to have a noticeably shorter range which would need to be compensated for.


I agree though, that a hard cap would be very bad. In fact, I am guessing (without running tests) that stims have a hard cap, which is why their range formula looks incomprehensible on the surface.

jfang
Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:42 am
#85






jkray8472 wrote:

You cannot compare one profession to another as a blanket. Each profession has strengths and weaknesses that others do not. Combat Medics are unique in that our damage is universal, regardless of the mob. It would be interesting to see some of the high-end mobs have poison/disease reduction modifiers...where they take 10, 20, or 50% of the normal poison/disease damage.


...



It'd be a lot easier if they'd just TELL us these things!








Very interesting idea. However, I do not like the implications of monsters having a damage reduction to poisons. I say this because I look at combat medics as being the "alternative combat" profession, in that they are strong where others are weak, and weak where others are strong. If an ancient krayt, a night sister elder, and what not had a 80% poison damage reduction, we would lose the pretense of having a unique place and position in the battle field. Currently, the only reason I think the combat medic PvE damage is reasonable is that it does very well against certain types of enemies. If you remove this "specialness", they would need a significant PvE damage boost. And even then, you end up with the situation where every combat class is more or less interchangeable, which I think is unhealthy for a MMORPG.


Now, if you gave krayts a 50% or 80% resistance rate, so a combat medic would need to experiment potency, that's another story all together. Similar effect, different implications, especially in regards to crafting.


...


And if they just *told* us the formula, what would be the fun of that?


If you really want to have... fun, try extrapolating the formula for poison and stim stats. That is a *cough* to figure out, although a helpful weaponsmith (or somebody who read their forums) gave me a strong hint in the right direction.
Bamboozle
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:04 am
#86

jfang, did you try the new changes? Did we have 64m cap on range, or did we have our range cut in half like TH said? (ie. range equals what it says on the poison pack, not double).






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jfang
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:19 am
#87


I do not have any information about the new changes, Bamboozle. The patch notes on TC didn't mention anything about any changes to combat medics, so I didn't go out of my way to test them (although apparently the changes did go to TC). Not to mention that I'm currently reliving the... joy... of mastering combat medic crafting on TC, so throwing poisons isn't especially high on my priority list unless there is something in particular to check (see comment about patch notes).


I strongly suspect that the healing range skill was not blanket removed from poisons as you suggested though, in that this would remove a significant distinction between 0004 and 4004 combat medics. Any more discussion though would be purely speculation, so I will defer to Texxie (or in the event of Texxie's incapacitation, Pahdbacca's interpretation of Texxie's PMs) for "real data".



Actually, I just realized that as far as poisons and diseases go, the range skill tree is decisively better than the speed tree. I wonder if it would be feasible to split the CM effectiveness skill between the range and the speed trees, so the 0x00 tree isn't considered so worthless. This would have the effect of making combat medic a little less dabble friendly, which may or may not be a good thing.


If that is not possible, maybe move the CM effectiveness skill to the speed tree, instead of the range one. (Note, for this secondsuggestionI am going off the assumption that ranged healing speed does not affect the speed of throwing poisons, which may or may not be the case.)
Canadianjoo
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:28 am
#88

Im sorry, but was range bugged? as far as i knew the system was designed so that CMs had a range of 2x what it says on the poison at master, will this be changed so the cap is at 64? i can understand if its fixing a bug that allowed 96m range, but is my simple 66m range going to be reduced?




Cui Unitforlife!
Plus Sized Purveyor of the Pink Padded (Its back!)
Hello, my name is Sue, How do you do, You gonna die!
Loonytic
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:35 am
#89






Canadianjoo wrote:

Im sorry, but was range bugged? as far as i knew the system was designed so that CMs had a range of 2x what it says on the poison at master, will this be changed so the cap is at 64? i can understand if its fixing a bug that allowed 96m range, but is my simple 66m range going to be reduced?






thats my concern are they getting rid of the modifers?or a hard cap of 64m... I can't test it as i don't have a master CM on the TC
satanis
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:38 am
#90

I'm reassured to see that teethor has already raised "the timing bug" issue, more so that others have verified it and Texxie has spotted it.

The quantity of poison 'spam' due to havla is an issue but is manageable by a well equipped and prepared team.

That timing bug its almost impossible to withstand. With a few players providing cover and 3 CM's on timing duty its possible to get either a disease or poison of your choice to stick on the target and tick with very little chance of them being able to do a great deal about it.

(Even with the longer tick time the disease part is due to the fact that a lot of the players dabbling in doc have their self-cure macro read: /curepoison self; /curedisease self; as such its a meta-gaming play).


This one has a higher priority for me than minimum havla times or maximum ranges.



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Kgboutlaw
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:44 am
#91

the range (at master CM) is double what it says on the pack, because of the +100 combat medic range u get at master. It's not a bug, unless buff packs being 860 base are only supposed to buff 860. I read in the CM fixes forum post on the "IN Testing" forums, i read 3 pages and no one figured this out. So nerf all base heal things, or don't nerf any.



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