Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Combat Medic Fixes!

jfang
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:47 am
#92





satanis wrote:
I'm reassured to see that teethor has already raised "the timing bug" issue, more so that others have verified it and Texxie has spotted it.

...


This one has a higher priority for me than minimum havla times or maximum ranges.







The reason this is not being addressed in this coming patch is more likely than not, it wasn't a known "big issue" until very recently.


The timing bug was not generally known to the combat medic community until yesterday. Rest assured that now that it is known, proper steps will be taken to address it. This might mean a patch to change them, or devs officially saying that this was intentional behavior (very unlikely).


If there any any other "clever tricks" which you think are bypassing game mechanics, let us know. Known issues (at least to me) can be seen at:



And I am interested in adding more to the list if something new comes up. As mentioned, security through obscurity is a bad model to use...
Pahdbacca
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:52 am
#93
Texxie told me he will do more testing and post later today....I tried some stuff out earlier yesterday on TC with VERY limmited resources (i.e. 500oq fungus, etc), which is why I don't trust my numbers as much as I will trust Texxie's.


As of right now on TC, mastersare able to throw greater than the stim rating on DoTs but less than twice the rating. It looks like ranged distance still has an effect (i.e. masters will throw farther than non-masters).... Moretesting is needed to find a relationship....it appears that I either had lag problems last night, the relationship is not linear, or that we need more data. The higher the rating on the DoT was, the closer the range mod was to 1.3333, which makes sense because 48 x 1 1/3 =64. My lower rated stims, however, showed a mod that was getting closer to1.5 than to 1.333.


I have to get some actual work done now, but I will crunch more numbers later today. I was not able to test healing stims because I do not have the stims themselves, components, resources, or a factory on TC. I will probably be hitting Pappi and or Texxie up for some CM components....I want to make poorly rated ranged stims on purpose to see if this relationship is linear or not.



-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
LeProfesor
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:00 am
#94
I dont understand where this people come from with Cms throwing poisons from 90+ meters.


I have never been able to throw that far. I ve been a master CM since day 1. There is an atrribute called range and then another one called radius. This is only on area poison which are hard to get at 600 tick. because you need to eat chef food and be a master to make them. the acklay poison does not spawn as often as it used to. and there is only one to kill in the whole game. If you get poisoned at 96 meters its because your buddy got poisoned with area and then you got the radius effect. so if they nerf the distance you will still have to deal with the radius effect which adds more distance.


Not all your docs will be there to save your ass once i apply the poison. because it will still tick and hard! dont think that a 4 sec cap will save you, perhaps a few but not all.


Resources are hard to come by, if you arent a CM, shut up and listen to the masters. Its an expensive proffesion. Yes you can go buy the poison off someone. but once the poison is gone, then its gone a for a while until the resources come back such as the infamous eleton gas and radioactive 1.


You also have to consider that when a CM throws poison, you have to deal with LAG. The Cm might of throw the poison at a appropiate distance and then run, but by the time you notice you got poison the Cm is already covering his/her distance away and the LAG effect here has to be considered.


My suggestion would be a 2 -second cap.

I dont care about distance, you are still gonna get poisoned/diseased and you will die



Gaucho
Bamboozle
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:03 am
#95
Well what TH said was that they "corrected a bug that allowed combat medics to throw at twice the range listed on poisons", so I'm assuming a master CM will be able to throw a poison that has "range: 40" exactly 40 meters, and then it scales down depending on your level of skill.
I'm hoping it's more of a 1.5 modifier for master CMs, letting us throw the best poison about 60-64 meters. =/



The Kitten's Diary, Day 781: I have discovered a most delightful way of making life miserable for my captors. Yesterday, I ate the woman's precious begonia, and today I have dismembered the amaryllis in the bedroom window. She is furious over the loss of her darling house plants! I find it highly gratifying.

Shai - Lieutenant Colonel of the Imperial army, FK division
Resource Vendor in the BlueDog Mini-Mall, Haven Island, Corellia -2010 -4670
Happymob
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:30 am
#96




LeProfesor wrote:

I dont understand where this people come from with Cms throwing poisons from 90+ meters.




As a 12-point CM, my standard poisons (area and single target) have a 86m range. The is done by putting half my points into area and half into charge/range on teh ADM (I like area more than I like range) and by maxing out power (about 9 points) and putting 3 points into charges/range on the final assembly. Even without the extra range on the final assembly, the base range is 40m (for a 80m throw). On an area poison, this leaves me with something like 86m range, 30m area, 130 potency (purely from the ARC - I don't spend any points here on the final assmebly) and a 460 tick (230 base effectiveness).


I can easily go higher than 90m, though this costs power and area.





Imadoh and Ikiecobi
Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo
NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076


Rikilii
Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:54 am
#97




Happymob wrote:




LeProfesor wrote:

I dont understand where this people come from with Cms throwing poisons from 90+ meters.




As a 12-point CM, my standard poisons (area and single target) have a 86m range. The is done by putting half my points into area and half into charge/range on teh ADM (I like area more than I like range) and by maxing out power (about 9 points) and putting 3 points into charges/range on the final assembly. Even without the extra range on the final assembly, the base range is 40m (for a 80m throw). On an area poison, this leaves me with something like 86m range, 30m area, 130 potency (purely from the ARC - I don't spend any points here on the final assmebly) and a 460 tick (230 base effectiveness).


I can easily go higher than 90m, though this costs power and area.







I don't know why it's so hard to understand....I can easily make 96m poisons (48m range X2). The effectiveness is poor however.



---------------------------------------------------

Ahazi: Tekhap Ybrae--Former CM and Homeless Nublar Extraordinaire.

TC: Avaro Tribec--Co-founder of the TC-GCW, and Self Proclaimed Leader of the Imperial Legions
jkray8472
Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:00 am
#98
I'm also a 12-point CM crafter. By balancing my Adv DMs and putting a few points into the charges/range of the final assembly...my packs have a base range of 46m (92m toss before this fix), and full effectiveness (325 single poison etc), with 120 potency.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never piss off a healer. They know how you're put together...they can just as easily take you apart."
Kiarda Kismet
Master (in order) - Medic, Doctor, Teras Kasi, Smuggler, Carbinier, Marksman, Artisan, Architect, Combat Medic, Pistoleer, Scout, Squad Leader, Image Designer, Entertainer, Dancer, Brawler, Fencer, Merchant, Pikeman, Swordsman, Creature Handler, Rifleman, Ranger, Bounty Hunter, Commando, Musician. Droid Engineer.
Unlocked 6/5/04
Arcurium
Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:32 am
#99
I spent about a month as a combat medic, before switching to the number one combat medic killer template, Rifleman/doctor. So, I have been on both sides of this issue. Listened to people complain about my poisons and diseases. There is no argument on this point. Combat Medic was broken. You can throw at twice the distance of any ranged profession, with no damage penalties for PvP, all you need is a potency of about 90% to guarantee having it stick, it ignores armor, any toughness, or any type of mitigation. People have said, "Well, poison is supposed to be deadly, it shouldnt be mitigated, its a deadly poison." Well, a headshot with a heavy armor piercing T21 shouldnt be mitigated either, it should be one shot, you're dead. It isn't about realism within the game, its about balance, and a single Combat Medic, can decimate an entire squad of Elite ranged and melee professions. There is a problem with balance here. These fixes are a beginning. Doctors should not have the havla bonus removed, because they can only cure one person at a time, unlike Combat Medics, who can poison unlimited numbers of people within a given range. I agree that these fixes are better than their previous fixes for Creature Handler, they nerfed that into oblivion. I for one am happy with this fix.



,Veusheesras Teacas



This signature will self-destruct in thirty seconds, unless your name is Phima.
Maxanto
Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:00 am
#100
I remember back in the days when CM was a SUPPORT profession. I miss those days.



Atiro - Atreyu
Two Sides of the Same Coin
Mmaxx
Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:12 am
#101




Maxanto wrote:

I remember back in the days when CM was a SUPPORT profession. I miss those days.






that's nice. I remember what I ate for supper last night...no wait I guess I don't


You miss the days when it took a group of 17 to take out arancor lair. You miss the days when no one had mount or vehicles. You miss the days when a guy with bone armour was uber. Do you really? A cm was needed for support back then because without buffs and armor everyone got hurt all the time and the CM's area heals were needed. Well that's not this game now and probably won't be again. in another post, I want some test results posted


Any results on the tests from TC yet?

LeProfesor
Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:21 am
#102
and so ther you have it. you can craft poison that have long range, but the tick sucks.

Even though is most like ly we are getting nerfed. we still kick their arse. Just play smart folks.



Gaucho
Reiella
Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:52 am
#103




JayBurns wrote:



Perhaps the reason no one has heard of a 75% reduction for this profession, is because the devs simply aren't going to do thatto poisons/bleeds/disease/fire, because you know if they do it to CMDoTthey will have to do it to everyone else with a similar ability and then no one is happy. There are many ways to balance thisCMissue out without forcing their offense into disuse, and I for one think that inthebalance we will see huge changes, the devs know they can't go on forever by simply changing one profession to suit another.


Regards,


JBurns



Well, this should be considered, but kinda odd after talking to my Commando friend at least... It does appear that Fire at least takes the 75% reduction, but that may be because of how the Fire DOT works [initial damage + dot damage determined by initial damage]. I have no clue myself on how Bleeds work either though.



Master Image Designer
Master Dancer
Teras Kasi Student (Brawler 4400)
Novice Fencer (Fencer 1010)
Third Asteroid on the Right
Gnuut
Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:33 am
#104
Like it or not Range was not a bug. The DEVs state it is a bug because they want to shift the blame to the CMs. Let me offer an example. How could you honestly call defense stacking a bug and ask players to not stack? Short of not playing or surrendering those skills there is no way.

For the same reasons, a Master CM's range bonus is built WITHIN the skill tree. You can't ask a Master CM to give up his skills and still be a Master CM. Many things in this game are bugs which are then turned into exploits. Range is not one of them because the ability lies within the skill tree not within the player.


Many times someone will state that the DEVs have tried to fix this before and failed. This is untrue. The DEVs capped the experimented base range at 48m. But you are trying to tell me that the guy who works on CM issues within SOE just happened to forget that CMs scale their range up to double base at Master? Gimme a f**king break.


Like I said beforethis change makes Master CM worthless and invites more dabblers to the profession. Setting aside the crafting, the only difference between an MCM and a 4404 CM will be a12.5% increase in power and maybe a 6m range increase.




Grau'din
Elder Combat Medic
Magnumus Mysterium MYST
I am not a support class.
I am a chemical warfare expert.
I am a bio-warrior.
I am a zerg-stopper.
I am a Master CM. Run for your life....
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