Combat Medic Archive

Thread: If you want 75% reduction, you should look at these numbers (long post)

BeerMeister
Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:36 am
#79

I'll get slammed so hard for this one, but here goes..

[rant]
I'm not a CM, nor has ever been one. I don't do PvP but has witnessed my fair share of them to know what it's about.. at least from a spectators point of view.

The single point which keeps striking me in this discussion is the complete ignorance of überbuilds to stand back for a second to take a perspectived look at all this. At times I almost laughed myself of my chair with the complete contradiction of some ppl readily accepting 5K/dam second but whiling long and far about a CM doing 100dam/second... That does not compute..

CM will take 169 skill points.. that's roughly 67% of ur TOTAL amount of skillpoints.. Putting these kinds of points into any single non-combat (physically) profession and seriously nerf ur innate combat abilities simply has to payoff.. if not, well.. goodbye CM, who'd need those useless guys anyway?

I utterly despise all the f*cked up combo builds enabling one to have way too high modifications whichs devs states are bugs.. (did anyone say stacked defence and TKA/rifleman?).. hell, if u do an examine of ppl in a starport you'll find 50%+ being TKA and/or rifleman.. why is that?

Dueling is fine by all means.. In my very humble opinion, and as someone had posted before, being in a bigger fight would spell idiotic to me if everyone just closed in on eachother and formed two tight lines of ppl munching away at the oppisite guy.. Everyone of course high on buffs, spice, food, uberarmor and it takes forever..

Viola.. enter the CM.. "Ohh damn" thinks Buff The TKA/Rifle/ancient krayt-soloüberdude.. "Quick-- Brain.. enable urself and think tactically!".. ... ... " ... " ... ...

Nahh.. instead of thinking ppl resort to complain about a SUPPORT class completely ruining their pvp because they can't stop up and think for a second. Pardon my harsh words, but u guys need a serious donk on ur heads.. Take a step back and look at what this has regenerated to for Christ sake!

Everyone is superbuffed.. wearing super armor/weapons and basically have the same skills.. where is the fun/tactic/sport in that? All about having the luck of some random number generator on ur side and **edit** with brains to do.. I realize I cannot generalize, but this is what most bigger fights look like to me.. a complete bore.. "Yay! I hit him for 3000 damage.. with PSG, armor, food, God's will and whatever weird stuff ppl use, it results in 50 dam.. bloke regens 49 dam/s.. if I'm lucky he'll be dead in 42 days"

I for one only welcome the likes of CM's.. they can seriously screw up this braindead whacking and force ppl to think or die.. That, I think, is most ppl's nemesis; it screws up their normal way of doing stuff and change is always bad.

Anyways, pvp in swg simply suck arse.. if ur not using an uberbuild template and tries to figth on same premisses with any other class.. u don't stand a chance.. if ur really good at ur profession you prob. stand a chance.. just like it should be..

But nerfing CM because u can't deal with it, is soooo sad and really just points out the differences between ppl.. there should be a TKA/rifleman server and then a server for the rest of ppl.. would prob. negate this..

[/rant]
BeerMeister
Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:03 am
#80

woops.. kinda forgot my 'constructive' thoughts..

Don't nerf the CM as such.. I'd much rather see it so that they couldn't target unhealable stats.. Likewise it should state when a player resisted a poison. Lastly, a CM should have ppl in linesight before being able to toss something their way

I know this isn't alot, but it all seem to boil down to mind disease.

Of course, while they're at it, they should nerf rifleman as well since he too can hit mind...
Getoc
Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:16 am
#81

Hey Rhen , why dont u just then calculate the same on big groups hit by area desease and area poison ... lets say about 15 targets per shot ..... how would the dps come out then ?



Get'toc : Elder Jedi - Farstar day 1 player - Proud of wearing the 'Teras Kasi Elder Titile' to honor the coolest profession there has ever been in SWG . Black Epsilon Pilot Ace .

Xanea : Trader - Master Shipdesigner and RSF Pilot Ace / Xaneas Shipyard at Arakeen on Lok (closed atm because of spaceloot sickness)

Sharres : Spy by nature and RSF Pilot Ace , Smuggler Pilot Ace , Black Epsilon Pilot Ace and acutal Corsec Pilot Ace
ChilastraBH
Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:21 am
#82

interesting
Morganite
Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:50 pm
#83






Getoc wrote:
Hey Rhen , why dont u just then calculate the same on big groups hit by area desease and area poison ... lets say about 15 targets per shot ..... how would the dps come out then ?







If 15 people are stupid enough to stand close enough for the AoE to hit them all, well, since when do we need to make balance so that the intelligence challanged people have a chance? I have gone on tons of base destroying parties, it is simply a matter of keeping people seperated enough so the AoE doesnt hit everyone. Only 1 person can work a terminal at once, do 15 people need to stand inside? go ahead, kill the BE, I'll simply come inside, Rez him/her, and the BE can continue their work.



People in this game thing battle is something from the 1400's, everyone stand up in nice, straight lines, and attack the guy across from you until they are dead. Not my fault you are using flawed reasoning, and even worse tactics..




MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
Morganite
Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:55 pm
#84






RhenGordon wrote:

Because it is truly and utterly irrelevant.


Seriously, the point was that there be 75% damage rduction to our class, there was and I have never heard anyone EVER say that it should only pertain to area of effect. In fact it is usually the opposite, some of the numbers that are complained about on this forum are only possible WITH a single poison.


If you are angry that CM is the only class that can AoE, well you are mistaken, I know for a fact that carbineers have one, I am pretty sure that commandos have one, heck even basic pistoleer has an area of effect point blank attack. You want to nerf the damage on all of those too? Don't ever hear anyone complaining about those AoEs. How about grenades/thermal detonators, they are AoE weapons too, yeah I know their damage sucks, maybe you should argue that they get a boost instead of talking about nerfing us.


The point of the numbers is this: If you nerf CM damage 75% then all a person has to do is sit down on his rear in some out of the way place, or just stay low on the radar for a few minutes and the poison effects will never have an impact on him.


Doesn't matter if it is AoE of One on One, the effects are the same against a single target.







You know I support you on this rhen, but your reasoning is wrong in this case. the AoE is much smaller for these types of attacks then ours. It just amazes me there is an entire planet worth of space, and people complain that an Aoe hits 20 people at once (41 is my all time record for players hit with 1 AoE) when they were all huddled around the doctor, thinking that makes it easier on the doc or something, laf. In my 41 hit player AoE mind poison, about 20 were hiding inside the base we came to attack, and the rest were standing right outside it's entrence. What did they expect? the complaint about CM are like **edit** envy, our damage (**edit**) is better/bigger/more pleasureable then theirs, so they complain and cry.


Just give them some pampers and a towel and move on..



MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
Skydiver01
Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:28 pm
#85

this kick-@$$ post deserves a /bump







________________________________________________________

Excite

Like a midget at a urinal, you have to stay on your toes !
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:39 am
#86






Skydiver01 wrote:

this kick-@$$ post deserves a /bump






I'd say this Kick-@$$ post deserves a /sticky




Carbicide: "The victimless crime!"
BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

"I lead with my intellect, wits, example and the big nasty gun that I use to shoot everyone who doesn't follow my orders"
Rennec Bibo, proud owner of some sort of carbine since november 2003.
Getoc
Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:08 am
#87






Morganite wrote:





Getoc wrote:
Hey Rhen , why dont u just then calculate the same on big groups hit by area desease and area poison ... lets say about 15 targets per shot ..... how would the dps come out then ?







If 15 people are stupid enough to stand close enough for the AoE to hit them all, well, since when do we need to make balance so that the intelligence challanged people have a chance? I have gone on tons of base destroying parties, it is simply a matter of keeping people seperated enough so the AoE doesnt hit everyone. Only 1 person can work a terminal at once, do 15 people need to stand inside? go ahead, kill the BE, I'll simply come inside, Rez him/her, and the BE can continue their work.



People in this game thing battle is something from the 1400's, everyone stand up in nice, straight lines, and attack the guy across from you until they are dead. Not my fault you are using flawed reasoning, and even worse tactics..






Somehow i didn't expect another answer from a CM. Were talking about DPS from single attacks dont we ?


I meant the original post was something about 'toltal damage per second' and such things ... maybe im in the worng threat ......... ?


Rhen made a calculation of the DPS , i said he should recalculate becausethe overall damage should include all damage done in the area because its the overall damage per secondoff this attack and gave an example about an group ... nothing more nothing less .


Ure tring to insult me with a lack of tactics ...... as i said ... i expected something like this from a CM .










Get'toc : Elder Jedi - Farstar day 1 player - Proud of wearing the 'Teras Kasi Elder Titile' to honor the coolest profession there has ever been in SWG . Black Epsilon Pilot Ace .

Xanea : Trader - Master Shipdesigner and RSF Pilot Ace / Xaneas Shipyard at Arakeen on Lok (closed atm because of spaceloot sickness)

Sharres : Spy by nature and RSF Pilot Ace , Smuggler Pilot Ace , Black Epsilon Pilot Ace and acutal Corsec Pilot Ace
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:05 am
#88






Getoc wrote:


Somehow i didn't expect another answer from a CM. Were talking about DPS from single attacks dont we ?


I meant the original post was something about 'toltal damage per second' and such things ... maybe im in the worng threat ......... ?


Rhen made a calculation of the DPS , i said he should recalculate becausethe overall damage should include all damage done in the area because its the overall damage per secondoff this attack and gave an example about an group ... nothing more nothing less .


Ure tring to insult me with a lack of tactics ...... as i said ... i expected something like this from a CM .





Well... if the DPS of a single shot poison will be almost regeneratable with a 75% reduction the much weaker area poison will probably totally regeneratable with a 75% reduction.


Now this is a thought experiment, if the thought part bothers you just skip that bit, gather all persons on Bria on one spot not larger than 5x5 meters (since there is no collision this is quite possible, except that it will probably crash the server) buff them all so that they can regenerate the poison damage.


Now throw an area poison.


How high will the factual damage made be?


Will one CM be able to defeat all of bria using this method?


How much is 10 000 times zero?





Carbicide: "The victimless crime!"
BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

"I lead with my intellect, wits, example and the big nasty gun that I use to shoot everyone who doesn't follow my orders"
Rennec Bibo, proud owner of some sort of carbine since november 2003.
Skydiver01
Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:06 am
#89

I feel this oldie but goodie needs a /BUMP





________________________________________________________

Excite

Like a midget at a urinal, you have to stay on your toes !
Morath360
Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:03 am
#90

Well I appreciate the attempt here but it is flawed to factor in regeneration and to do so on one target only. First, I would say that 200 or 150 is about right per tick. Poisons should not be the killer they are right now. They should slow down and weaken a person and that is what your tests are showing.


The biggest flaw I am seeing here is that DPS has nothing to do with regeneration. You use the net damage. We dont factor regeneration into the comparisons with other weaps so why do we do it here? We can but you need to do that for all weaps. Given the fact that poisons continue to tick and do not effectively stop until the person is dead, why dont we run this over 5 minutes and add multiple targets. Not 15 but say the norm or 5 or 6.


Because of the continuous nature of poisons with the ability of them to continue to tick out of line of sight or if the CM is dead, they are still very effective even at a 150 tick. You wouldnt get the "effective" incap in under one minute that you get now from the use of the poison pretty much by itself. I think your tests shows really where it should be.


I also feel that the CM should get some pve help in return buy reducing the sp needed to master the profession.



----------------------------------------------------

"In space all warriors are cold warriors.."


Morath {WRATH} MBH MD
Kahless {WRATH} Light Jedi Knight
Pahdbacca
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:29 am
#91






Morath360 wrote:

Well I appreciate the attempt here but it is flawed to factor in regeneration and to do so on one target only. First, I would say that 200 or 150 is about right per tick. Poisons should not be the killer they are right now. They should slow down and weaken a person and that is what your tests are showing.






20 to 15 points of damage per second over a period of 10 seconds. Sounds very unreasonable to me.



-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
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