Combat Medic Archive

---

RhenGordon wrote:

I have been hearing a lot about how Combat Medics need 75% reduction. Well I wanted to try and find out what it would be like to be limited to a 75% reduction penalty in combat. So I ran an expirement with the help of my wife's Novice Pistoleer character, (she doesn't play much).

I chose to use health instead of mind because I wanted to see what the qualities of a fully buffed person would be on regeneration. Since I had no way to buff up the mind of my wife's character to a level that most PvPers would be buffed to, I decided to use health poisons instead. I intend to do the same test on mind poisons soon just to put the issue at rest.

Below are the poisons that I created. The most powerful (effective) poison I could make with the current resources I have was 266, this poison ticks for around 532 points of damage. I decided to figure the proper 75% reduction I subtracted 75% of 532 from 532 and got 133. Since we all know a master medic can double the effectiveness of his poisons I figured that I would need a poison with about a 66 or 67 effectiveness. As you will see below I never really was able to get that low, 74 was as close as I could get.

1. A Health Poison; 76 Potency, 74 effectiveness, 118 duration (expiremented Potency)


2. B Health Poison, 101 potency, 83 effectiveness, 124 duration (expiremented Potency)


3. C Health Poison 127 Potency, 100 effectiveness, 115 duration (expiremented Potency)


4. C Health Poison 94 Potency, 266 effectiveness, 208 duration (fully expiremented in effectiveness)

So then being a master doctor as well, I took some of my buff packs, not the best I could find just some average ones and buffed all the stats I could buff. I also had my wife drink some brandy and take a muon gold. After all the buffing was complete, here were the stats on the control subject.

1. Health 2077


2. Strength 1464 with 299 encumbrance


3. Constitution 1259 with 299 encumbrance


4. Action 2001


5. Quickness 1628 with 322 encumbrance


6. Stamina 1036 with 322 encumbrance


7. Mind 1736


8. Focus 994 with 434 encumbrance


9. Willpower 1302 with 434 encumbrance

Let the poisoning begin!!!

You have to love a game where you can poison your wife and not have to worry about getting jailed. So I started out slow with the A poison. I decided I would do it two different ways, one time sitting and one time standing just to see what regeneration would be like on each of those.

Here are the stats on the A poison

Sitting:

• The poison ticked 12 times for 150 - 154 points of damage


• The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1807


• 2077 - 1807 = a net damage on this poison of 270 points over96 seconds.


• NET damage per second is2.8 points per second.


• Total damage done was 1800 points over 96 seconds


• Total Damage per second was 18.76 points.

Standing

• The poison ticked 12 times for 150 - 154 points of damage


• The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1150


• 2077 - 1150 = a net damage on this poison of 927 points over 96 seconds


• NET damage per second was 9.6 points per second


• Total damage done was 1800 points over 96 seconds


• Total damage per second was 18.76 points

That is as close to 75% reduction in damage as I can get. Those are way less than stellar stats. Lets go ahead and look at the other poisons too though

Health B Poison

Sitting

• The poison ticked 13 times for 166 per tick


• The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1650


• 2077- 1650 = a net damage on this poison of 427 over 104 seconds


• NET damage per second was 4.1 points per second


• Total Damage done was 2158 over 104 seconds


• Total damage per second was 20.75

Standing

• The poison ticked 13 times for 166 per tick


• the lowest the health bar reached was 835


• 2077 - 835 = a net damage on this poison of 1242 over 104 seconds


• NET damage per second was 11.9


• Total Damage done was 2158 over 104 seconds


• Total damage per second was 20.75

Health C poison, low expirementation

Sitting

• The poison ticked 12 times for 200 per tick


• the lowest the health bar reached was 1230


• 2077 - 1230 = a net damage on this poison of 847 over 96 seconds


• NET damage per second was 8.8 points of damage


• Total Damagedone was 2400 points over96 seconds


• Total damage per second was 25 points

Standing

• The poison ticked 12 times for 200 per tick


• the lowest the health bar got was 534


• 2077 - 534 = a net damage of 1543 over 96 seconds


• NET damage per second was 16 points


• Total Damage done was 2400 points over 96 seconds


• Total damage per second was 25 points

NOW FOR THE BIG BOY

Sitting

• The poison ticked 21 times for 532 points of damage


• The lowest the health bar got was 1. It took7 ticks before the bar reached a 1


• 2077 - 1 = a net damage of 2076 over 168 seconds


• NET damage per second was 12.3 points per second


• Total Damage that could have been done was 11172 *


• Total damage per second was 66 points *

Standing

• The poison ticked 21 times for 532 points of damage


• The lowest the health bar got was 1. It took 5 ticks before it reached 1


• 2077 - 1 = a net damage of 2076 over 168 seconds


• NET damage per second was 12.3 points per second


• Total Damage that could have been done was 11172 *


• Total damage per second was 66 points *

By your numbers. A combatant in a real situation would be standing. This gives a combatant an effective time of 60 seconds before they reach 1 health and effectively "die". Players with 1 hp in any pool are always picked off. With your 532 strength poison, 2077 points of damage is done in 60 seconds. Damage is at 34.6 points per second. If the poison was an area, feel free to multiply by 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6.

Let's say this poison was landed on three subjects at once - a fairly modest amount for an area poison just to give CM the benifit of the doubt. DPS would be 103.8 points per second.

A BH/Pistoleer firing eyeshot at a player with 40% stun armor and a 40% stun shield generator, 44% damage reduction synthsteak, and ranged mitigation three using a 200-550 damage Geonosian sonic pistol (that is a HUGE damaging gun) and firing at the speed cap would do:

Accomodate for ranged mitigation: a 200-550 gun would really be a 200-340 gun. Ranged mitigation 3 reduces the range on the gun by 60%.

Using this, the real damage of the gun would be 200-340 X 1.5 = 300-510.

Multiply this by the 3.0 multiplyer of eyeshot. 300-510 X 3 = 900-1530.

Multiply this by the 75% damage reduction that all combat classes get. 900-1530 = 225-382.5

Now time for the armor reduction, which CM poisons have no armor toblock against their damage - lucky CM's.

Let's calculate the damage loss through the shield gen first. 225-382.5 X .75 = 168.8-286.9 for a non-armor piercing weapon hitting a light armor component. Now for the 40% resists... 168.8-286.9 X .60 = 101.3-172.1.

Now let's put this through the 40% stun helm. 101.3-172.1 X .75 = 76.0-129.1 for a non-armor piercing weapon hitting a light armor component. Now for the 40% resists... 76.0-129.1 X .6 = 45.6-77.5

Now put this through the 44% damage reduction synthsteak. 45.6-77.5 X .56 = 24.6-41.9

This 200-550 Geonosian sonice blaster, which would sell for 10 Million credits or more and represents the ultimate in pistoleer weaponry - and I'm talking ultimate here, would do 24.6 to 41.9 damage per second on a single pool and only to a single player. Now let's compare this to your weak 532 poison which isn't even close the the ultimate in CM poisons.

Your "weak" poison (the 532 damage "behemoth"), which is hardly a "Big Boy" at all does 34.6 DPS until it leaves the player with 1 hitpoint. My uber, krayt enhanced and damage sliced geonosian blaster does at most 41.9 even when i don't take mind regeneration into account. If I were to further ingore health generation on you test subject, the damage would be 53.2 points per second for you "weak" poison.

If you compare the 41.9 DPS of my legendary geo with the 53.2 DPS of your everyday poison, you might feel like CM needs some humbling. But if you were to hit multiple targets with your poison (let's say three, which is a modest amount) you would do 159.6 DPS with common, everyday, household poison.

The REAL killer here is that you even failed to mention what the "ultimate" of your poisons will do when I so gladly showed you what I can do with my best pistol.

Perhaps you now know that many have a reason to complain about the power of your poisons. Couple this high damage with the fact that poison's counter (doc cure) instantly destroys the effectiveness of a combat team to obtain and many lives and time lost in the process. CM counters (doc cures) are FAR too unreliable and difficult to obtain for the high damage output they are capable of.

I would like to see either convenient and instant cure mechanisms or a damage reduction for poisons. I don't care which one, but poison damage output is to large to warrant such unreliable, time costly, and offensive-crippling cures.

I do however agree that a 75% damage reduction would kill your class, and I don't want that to happen. What I would like to see is appropriate damage for the appropriate amount of effort used to survive a poison attack. Anyways thank you for your time if you read through all that algebra, and perhaps a more even ground has been reached on what is appropriate damage in PvP.

In short, the effectiveness of CM's in large scale battles is a failure of the current doc curing system and it's inadequacies in accomodating large groups of combatants. Sad, but true

So what do these number all mean.

Well if we introduce the 75% reduction in poisons like many of the nerfers want to do, we see that even a person fully buffed and standing, would not have any trouble living through the poison. Of course if the duration was longer it would be more problematic, but since this character was healing back 136 points for every tick of 150 points, and considering the poison I used would be more powerful than the 75% reduced poison, we can extrapolate pretty well that poisons would have little if any effect on a player.

You are right, a 75% reduction would kill your class. I personally feel that the highest craftable poisons should do no more than 500 a tick for most players and no more than 600 a tick for those CM's wanting to go the extra mile (or kilometer hehe). 1000 tick poisons are too much, 800 tick poisons are too much. 600 should be the absolute hardcap.

Now when we consider the best poison I can make. The most damage that poison seems like a lot, but when you consider that the poison takes almost 3 minutes to do that kind of damage we see that our actual damage output is still much less than almost any combat character can do.When you also consider thatnearly 9000 points of that damage is lost because we cannot incapacitate youwill find that the actual damage per second of our poison is much less than the 66 that is being reflected.I noticed that my wife with her pistol was able to hit me for 75 - 120 points of damage every second. Keeping that in mind, even with misses and dodges a master pistoleer should easily outdamage any combat medic.

We can also see by these numbers that it takes at least40 seconds for my poison to bring a character to a single point. This is much longer than the reported 4 seconds that I have heard some nerfers cry.

Now I know some of you are going to squawk and say that I fudged the numbers. Well you don't have to believe me, go out and run the test yourself, or come on Ahazi and I will run the test on you personally.

My conclusions are that Combat medic is just about right in terms of damage output. We are already suffering from a 75% damage reduction as many of us say. You can feel free to disagree, but there are the numbers right in front of you.

Maybe after seeing my numbers you will feel somewhat different. Couple this with the inability of the current doc system to treat players in large-scale combat and you understand why either doc cures need to become incredibly more reliable or effective or a damage reduction on poisons needs to occur. A 75% reduction would gut your class, and I for one do not want that to happen, but the damage/cure reliability needs to be balanced... I don't care if it's damage reduced or cures beefed up Good day

I know this is long, if you made it this far, then I owe you a soda!

---

---

Ternque01 wrote:

I'm in purple.

---

RhenGordon wrote:

I have been hearing a lot about how Combat Medics need 75% reduction. Well I wanted to try and find out what it would be like to be limited to a 75% reduction penalty in combat. So I ran an expirement with the help of my wife's Novice Pistoleer character, (she doesn't play much).

I chose to use health instead of mind because I wanted to see what the qualities of a fully buffed person would be on regeneration. Since I had no way to buff up the mind of my wife's character to a level that most PvPers would be buffed to, I decided to use health poisons instead. I intend to do the same test on mind poisons soon just to put the issue at rest.

Below are the poisons that I created. The most powerful (effective) poison I could make with the current resources I have was 266, this poison ticks for around 532 points of damage. I decided to figure the proper 75% reduction I subtracted 75% of 532 from 532 and got 133. Since we all know a master medic can double the effectiveness of his poisons I figured that I would need a poison with about a 66 or 67 effectiveness. As you will see below I never really was able to get that low, 74 was as close as I could get.

1. A Health Poison; 76 Potency, 74 effectiveness, 118 duration (expiremented Potency)


2. B Health Poison, 101 potency, 83 effectiveness, 124 duration (expiremented Potency)


3. C Health Poison 127 Potency, 100 effectiveness, 115 duration (expiremented Potency)


4. C Health Poison 94 Potency, 266 effectiveness, 208 duration (fully expiremented in effectiveness)

So then being a master doctor as well, I took some of my buff packs, not the best I could find just some average ones and buffed all the stats I could buff. I also had my wife drink some brandy and take a muon gold. After all the buffing was complete, here were the stats on the control subject.

1. Health 2077


2. Strength 1464 with 299 encumbrance


3. Constitution 1259 with 299 encumbrance


4. Action 2001


5. Quickness 1628 with 322 encumbrance


6. Stamina 1036 with 322 encumbrance


7. Mind 1736


8. Focus 994 with 434 encumbrance


9. Willpower 1302 with 434 encumbrance

Let the poisoning begin!!!

You have to love a game where you can poison your wife and not have to worry about getting jailed. So I started out slow with the A poison. I decided I would do it two different ways, one time sitting and one time standing just to see what regeneration would be like on each of those.

Here are the stats on the A poison

Sitting:

• The poison ticked 12 times for 150 - 154 points of damage


• The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1807


• 2077 - 1807 = a net damage on this poison of 270 points over96 seconds.


• NET damage per second is2.8 points per second.


• Total damage done was 1800 points over 96 seconds


• Total Damage per second was 18.76 points.

Standing

• The poison ticked 12 times for 150 - 154 points of damage


• The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1150


• 2077 - 1150 = a net damage on this poison of 927 points over 96 seconds


• NET damage per second was 9.6 points per second


• Total damage done was 1800 points over 96 seconds


• Total damage per second was 18.76 points

That is as close to 75% reduction in damage as I can get. Those are way less than stellar stats. Lets go ahead and look at the other poisons too though

Health B Poison

Sitting

• The poison ticked 13 times for 166 per tick


• The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1650


• 2077- 1650 = a net damage on this poison of 427 over 104 seconds


• NET damage per second was 4.1 points per second


• Total Damage done was 2158 over 104 seconds


• Total damage per second was 20.75

Standing

• The poison ticked 13 times for 166 per tick


• the lowest the health bar reached was 835


• 2077 - 835 = a net damage on this poison of 1242 over 104 seconds


• NET damage per second was 11.9


• Total Damage done was 2158 over 104 seconds


• Total damage per second was 20.75

Health C poison, low expirementation

Sitting

• The poison ticked 12 times for 200 per tick


• the lowest the health bar reached was 1230


• 2077 - 1230 = a net damage on this poison of 847 over 96 seconds


• NET damage per second was 8.8 points of damage


• Total Damagedone was 2400 points over96 seconds


• Total damage per second was 25 points

Standing

• The poison ticked 12 times for 200 per tick


• the lowest the health bar got was 534


• 2077 - 534 = a net damage of 1543 over 96 seconds


• NET damage per second was 16 points


• Total Damage done was 2400 points over 96 seconds


• Total damage per second was 25 points

NOW FOR THE BIG BOY

Sitting

• The poison ticked 21 times for 532 points of damage


• The lowest the health bar got was 1. It took7 ticks before the bar reached a 1


• 2077 - 1 = a net damage of 2076 over 168 seconds


• NET damage per second was 12.3 points per second


• Total Damage that could have been done was 11172 *


• Total damage per second was 66 points *

Standing

• The poison ticked 21 times for 532 points of damage


• The lowest the health bar got was 1. It took 5 ticks before it reached 1


• 2077 - 1 = a net damage of 2076 over 168 seconds


• NET damage per second was 12.3 points per second


• Total Damage that could have been done was 11172 *


• Total damage per second was 66 points *

By your numbers. A combatant in a real situation would be standing. This gives a combatant an effective time of 60 seconds before they reach 1 health and effectively "die". Players with 1 hp in any pool are always picked off. With your 532 strength poison, 2077 points of damage is done in 60 seconds. Damage is at 34.6 points per second. If the poison was an area, feel free to multiply by 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6.

Let's say this poison was landed on three subjects at once - a fairly modest amount for an area poison just to give CM the benifit of the doubt. DPS would be 103.8 points per second.

A BH/Pistoleer firing eyeshot at a player with 40% stun armor and a 40% stun shield generator, 44% damage reduction synthsteak, and ranged mitigation three using a 200-550 damage Geonosian sonic pistol (that is a HUGE damaging gun) and firing at the speed cap would do:

Accomodate for ranged mitigation: a 200-550 gun would really be a 200-340 gun. Ranged mitigation 3 reduces the range on the gun by 60%.

Using this, the real damage of the gun would be 200-340 X 1.5 = 300-510.

Multiply this by the 3.0 multiplyer of eyeshot. 300-510 X 3 = 900-1530.

Multiply this by the 75% damage reduction that all combat classes get. 900-1530 = 225-382.5

Now time for the armor reduction, which CM poisons have no armor toblock against their damage - lucky CM's.

Let's calculate the damage loss through the shield gen first. 225-382.5 X .75 = 168.8-286.9 for a non-armor piercing weapon hitting a light armor component. Now for the 40% resists... 168.8-286.9 X .60 = 101.3-172.1.

Now let's put this through the 40% stun helm. 101.3-172.1 X .75 = 76.0-129.1 for a non-armor piercing weapon hitting a light armor component. Now for the 40% resists... 76.0-129.1 X .6 = 45.6-77.5

Now put this through the 44% damage reduction synthsteak. 45.6-77.5 X .56 = 24.6-41.9

This 200-550 Geonosian sonice blaster, which would sell for 10 Million credits or more and represents the ultimate in pistoleer weaponry - and I'm talking ultimate here, would do 24.6 to 41.9 damage per second on a single pool and only to a single player. Now let's compare this to your weak 532 poison which isn't even close the the ultimate in CM poisons.

Your "weak" poison (the 532 damage "behemoth"), which is hardly a "Big Boy" at all does 34.6 DPS until it leaves the player with 1 hitpoint. My uber, krayt enhanced and damage sliced geonosian blaster does at most 41.9 even when i don't take mind regeneration into account. If I were to further ingore health generation on you test subject, the damage would be 53.2 points per second for you "weak" poison.

If you compare the 41.9 DPS of my legendary geo with the 53.2 DPS of your everyday poison, you might feel like CM needs some humbling. But if you were to hit multiple targets with your poison (let's say three, which is a modest amount) you would do 159.6 DPS with common, everyday, household poison.

The REAL killer here is that you even failed to mention what the "ultimate" of your poisons will do when I so gladly showed you what I can do with my best pistol.

Perhaps you now know that many have a reason to complain about the power of your poisons. Couple this high damage with the fact that poison's counter (doc cure) instantly destroys the effectiveness of a combat team to obtain and many lives and time lost in the process. CM counters (doc cures) are FAR too unreliable and difficult to obtain for the high damage output they are capable of.

I would like to see either convenient and instant cure mechanisms or a damage reduction for poisons. I don't care which one, but poison damage output is to large to warrant such unreliable, time costly, and offensive-crippling cures.

I do however agree that a 75% damage reduction would kill your class, and I don't want that to happen. What I would like to see is appropriate damage for the appropriate amount of effort used to survive a poison attack. Anyways thank you for your time if you read through all that algebra, and perhaps a more even ground has been reached on what is appropriate damage in PvP.

In short, the effectiveness of CM's in large scale battles is a failure of the current doc curing system and it's inadequacies in accomodating large groups of combatants. Sad, but true

So what do these number all mean.

Well if we introduce the 75% reduction in poisons like many of the nerfers want to do, we see that even a person fully buffed and standing, would not have any trouble living through the poison. Of course if the duration was longer it would be more problematic, but since this character was healing back 136 points for every tick of 150 points, and considering the poison I used would be more powerful than the 75% reduced poison, we can extrapolate pretty well that poisons would have little if any effect on a player.

You are right, a 75% reduction would kill your class. I personally feel that the highest craftable poisons should do no more than 500 a tick for most players and no more than 600 a tick for those CM's wanting to go the extra mile (or kilometer hehe). 1000 tick poisons are too much, 800 tick poisons are too much. 600 should be the absolute hardcap.

Now when we consider the best poison I can make. The most damage that poison seems like a lot, but when you consider that the poison takes almost 3 minutes to do that kind of damage we see that our actual damage output is still much less than almost any combat character can do.When you also consider thatnearly 9000 points of that damage is lost because we cannot incapacitate youwill find that the actual damage per second of our poison is much less than the 66 that is being reflected.I noticed that my wife with her pistol was able to hit me for 75 - 120 points of damage every second. Keeping that in mind, even with misses and dodges a master pistoleer should easily outdamage any combat medic.

We can also see by these numbers that it takes at least40 seconds for my poison to bring a character to a single point. This is much longer than the reported 4 seconds that I have heard some nerfers cry.

Now I know some of you are going to squawk and say that I fudged the numbers. Well you don't have to believe me, go out and run the test yourself, or come on Ahazi and I will run the test on you personally.

My conclusions are that Combat medic is just about right in terms of damage output. We are already suffering from a 75% damage reduction as many of us say. You can feel free to disagree, but there are the numbers right in front of you.

Maybe after seeing my numbers you will feel somewhat different. Couple this with the inability of the current doc system to treat players in large-scale combat and you understand why either doc cures need to become incredibly more reliable or effective or a damage reduction on poisons needs to occur. A 75% reduction would gut your class, and I for one do not want that to happen, but the damage/cure reliability needs to be balanced... I don't care if it's damage reduced or cures beefed up Good day

I know this is long, if you made it this far, then I owe you a soda!

---

I don't think i'm being overly flagrant with my conditions, while the pistol i give is armor piercing 0, it is of incredible power, and I mean incredible. Your numbers are "stretched" to make the DPS seem much, much less than it really is by accomodating health regen (which is higher than mind in most cases) and by including ticks that occur after the player has reached 1 hitpoint and has started to regen again.

I could appologize for my mentioning of armor use in my pisol tests, but any player worth their salt will have them. These armor uses require a one-time purchase, and once equiped protect at ALL times and protect with incredible reliability. You could argue that I don't represent doctor cures in my scenario, but at the same time finding a doctor who is smart and aware enough to address poison cures are kinda actually hard to find.

In conclusion, I'd like to either support on this issue of DPS faster, more effective doctor cures or some form of damage reduction... and I'm not talking about the 75% damage reduction that floats on these boards like a death-gnat.

---

---

Kavedawg wrote:

all that number crunching to figure out that a player has a bit more than a minute to live...... if only their MIND COULD BE HEALED. A blanket CM poison damage reduction "NERF" is NOT the ANSWER. I do agree that there should be some type of poison ARMOR, please look to the ideas posted for innoculations. Every armor has a vulnarability, nerfing CM gives EVERYONE an automaticpoison armor, always there, no one time purchase needed.....very unfair to the CM. Damage is not the issue, the healing of said damage is the TRUE ISSUE, quit calling for a CM nerf

---

(1) Identification and communication to a doc on a poison/disease status is poor. There needs to be an easier way for doctors to physically "see" that a team member is poisoned - maybe the poisoned/diseased member's name turns Yellow or flashes colors. We currently have an icon tray which shows poison/disease, but once that fills up with other states and icons it may fall off out of sight on the bar.

(2) Cures have to be administered to only one patient at a time. This is extremely crippling timewise to say the least.

---

bradimere wrote:

Actually the best tick posion i have does 488 dmg im also a MCM

I do feel tho that if the give us a 75% Nerf, then have the initial impact max dmg be an ave dmg of 3-5k (in pve), then in pvp @75% = 750 - 1250 with a DOT of the 75% of the impact dmg = 187.5 - 312.5 that sounds fare enough.

---

naw....not fair

If all other professions want CM poisons to be less damaging than their uber weapons fine, but a CM should be allowed to add to the damage to a second CM when they are both spamming the /applysinglemindpoison. Since 6 BH spamming eyeshot have their damage adding, CM's should have added damage as well. That would be fair

---

Maikeri wrote:

so your saying,if you got damage nerfed,you might have to heal?! *gasp* not the healing!!

---

OMG he's right! We'd be force to HEAL! OMG OMG we've been so blind to this! OMG OMG OMG we have great heal powers and those Area StimC's that were in my pack were for healing all along!

Oh wait...what are we supposed to heal? Soooo what situation comes to mind (no pun intended) that you actually need to use something other than a stimB with novice medic? Dueling a fencer without stun armor? Dueling a TK without kinetic armor? Death Watch Bunker or Corvette (thanks to the nice SBD). Hmm I cant really think of too many other places where I'd actually need anything other than a overpowered, doctor made, small stimpack B!

Go back to trolling some other forum until you can learn to read and actually understand just how useful healing abilities are. Then ask yourself why defense stacking soloers beat out everyone else without having novice medic.

VT-014 says, "Move along. Move along"

Edit: I have been using a 105 mind poison Janta knife the last couple of nights. I had a fight that lasted about 10 minutes with 3 imps. The poison did its job by slowing them down and assisting the damage dealers instead of being the primary damage dealer. It did its job.

Again, let me point out that I do feel the CM needs some help for pve. I do think it should be in a reduction of sp needed.

Message Edited by Morath360 on 07-22-2004 09:14 AM