Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Some Q and A on upcomming changes
Calm down kiddies.
This class needs it's Corrisopndants. That is the ONLY way we will be heard. You know that Devs or CSR's don't read these forums or they would of locked this thread a long time ago.
We have lost the purpose of this thread.
Zarlor You stepped in, and filled the void, and helped out so much. /salute
Kavedawg, You took the ball from Zarlor, and headed out at a full burst run. Don't let the hot headed emotions that are flying around here deter you both from your work.
All Combat Medics, Post your constructive comments about the topic. WE NEED A CORISPONDANT. We went months before we saw ANY fixes for our class. We are arguing about an option that may NEVER hit the Live Servers, IF, and I say IF we handle this logicly, and maturely.
I love this class, and I know the just will prevail.
Let the Flames begin 
I have to chime in here.
For us getting the poisons stopping at +1 doesn't really hurt anything. In pve, I'm blasting at my target w/ a gun while my pet tanks.I'll get the final shot w/ my gun, no problem. Plus also, if you want to have a mind bleed, take up rifleman. let the mind bleed get the final incap.
In my experience w/ PVP, I'm pretty happy if my poisons actually get a tick on the target before the target gets incapped or db'd. I'd actually like the devs to put that 75% of 75% reduction back in again. We are way more effective then.
In pvp, people go down super quick, especially if they are not wearing armor. I stim my group members back up to full health, before I can throw another stim, they are already incapped or dangerously close to getting incapped. I've found that the ticks only become really effective on the large ham pets like grauls. And that's because they have such a large ham.
We are a support class, and to get combat xp, or whatever type of xp from the poison's effectiveness is a good tradeoff for the poison stopping at +1.
I commend the works of the doctor and cm correspondents.
Pretty soon we are all gonna be the same watered down versions of every profession and we can all run around dealing the same amount of damage...what is the point of being a hybird now? I might as well go back to being a doctor and sit in a med center to heal all the people that cried to Sony about getting poisioned, flamed, taken down byall the pets out thereor taken down by someone of a higher level than they are.
Can you say....whaaaaaa
My suggestion to the +1 HAM think. Let it only effect Area Poisens and notsingle Poisen.
Are the other Schematics fixed like Area Diseace C?
I'm a doc/cm.
I don't care how much they nerf us if they'd just remove the frigging CH prof from the game, or tone it down so much that it will be one of the least played professions.
I think this nerf (even though it is huge) is cool.
Two thumbs up for the nerfers.
Zarlor wrote:
Valkahr wrote:
Actually I consider it blasphemy for anyone to try to defend Zarlor. He screwed up. Badly. If he isn't man enough to admit it and try to get this grievous error corrected is an injustice to every CM in the game currently and all future CMs.
Excuse me? I'm more than man enough to stand up for the fact that I don't see any "grevious error" being made here. Back it up, son, if you think you can. Refute the arguments. Step up to the plate and PROVE to us, beyond the shadow of ANY doubt, that this change would utterly ruin the CM profession, and I'll stand right there and admit I was wrong. Until then all I will do is stand by my position that I don't know how good or bad this thing is, but that I'm utterly convinced it is not as bad as some of you seem to think it will be.
Read the post I just addressed to Jacore, son. I not only (and have on a couple of occassions) addressed each and every point. I've also shown how your proposed nerf corrects absolutely NONE of them.
I didn't say this would ruin the CM profession, those are your words. However, it would make the CM profession a shadow of its former self while addressing and correctly absolutely NONE of the issues with poisons / diseases.
If you can step up to the plate and state exactly how the no incap nerf fixes poisons working at 80m, I'll be glad to listen. That's right, it has nothing to do with the range of poisons. That's right, it doesn't address let alone correct the range on poisons.
How do you correct the problem? Simple, limit or cap the range on poisons. A simple, easy and direct fix to a simple problem.
You can apply this simple reasoning to each and every issue with poisons. FInd the problem and then using reason, determine the logical solution.
You speak of injustice? You know nothing of the word.
How is it not an injustice to propose a nerf that in no way corrects any of the supposed problems with poisons as anything but at injustice to the CM profession? This nerf will in no way stop further nerts to the profession. It just shows your naivity and ignorance.
Again, if poisons are doing too much damage in PVP, how is the no incap nerf a fix? That's right, its not. It does nothing to reduce the damage of poisons. It only stops it from incapping.
Lets get radical and assume 2 players are working together. 1 is a combat medic. 1 is any other combat profession, or even another combat medic. It matters not. The first player uses a poison and reduces an opponent(s) health, action and / or mind at double the rate the devs think poisons should work at. The second person then finishes off the oppponent for an easy kill. How exactly is the no incap going to make it balanced that poisons are doing double the damage ( and thus bringing an opponent down to 1 HAM twice as fast as the devs want ) going to balance poisons? Again, it is not.
Reason? Because the no incap nerf doesn't address poison damage. It doesn't effect poison range. It doesn't effect poison resists. Get the point yet? The no incap nerf is not a solution to any of the proposed problems because it doesn't address any of those problems.
You speak of manhood? Show me that you have any. I'm willing to stand by and back my word, and I am just as willing to as to debate you on the matter if you just show me that you have the manhood to do it.
Well I've stepped up to the plate. I've addressed the issues raised, given solutions (which wasn't hard, as the correct solution is to actually ADDRESS THE PROBLEM and not try to gloss over them without actually fixing them), and even proposed ideas.
Why is it so hard to actually just address the issues at hand? /shakes his head in amazement.
If its damage, adjust damage. If its range, address range. If its area of effect, address that. If its resist rates, adjust that. If its a viable counter, add a viablecounters or come up with new counters.
On the subject of counters, can we please get anoh so high tech device, such as a fire extinquisther, to counter fire damage. Or how about someone design abucket of water or a blanket? Or how about stop, drop and roll working as a counter?
Before anyone addresses my posts (Jacore and Zarlor specifically), I'd like to apologize for my tone.
It is just frustrating to see reasoning and logic not being usedto come up witha solution to a simple problem.
The no incap nerf addresses absolutely none of the real issues with poisons. So it can not be considered a solution. It also breaks immersiveness because it is a rule thrown in arbritrarily.
Personally, I'd like to see mind not incap anyone. Those with mind attacks would be useful as they could stop healers from healing. Mind damage across the board could be upped even, to allow riflemen, eye shot spamming BHs, etc, to take the healers out of PVP even faster than currently. The same could go for action. There wasa great post by TickTock on the issue. However, as the devs seem reluctant to even acknowledge the issue, I doubt it'll happen.
I am a MCM/MD.
Currently, the MD's have a lot more functionality. Buffs are great. Res is great (although I think the timer needs to be upped for when res kits can be used after death). Heals, although not ranged and only single target, are sufficient. Cure poisons, disease and heal wounds are nice.
The main reason I am a MCM is because of the poisons. The ranged, area heals are nice but they are a luxury. They don't really improve my character as I can run to a person and heal just fine. The poisons and diseases is why I became a CM. If poisons are overpowered, please nerf them to where they should be. But please don't add a nerf on top of that, especially a nerfthat does not address or balance any of the core issues.
Valkahr wrote:
Before anyone addresses my posts (Jacore and Zarlor specifically), I'd like to apologize for my tone.
It is just frustrating to see reasoning and logic not being usedto come up witha solution to a simple problem.
You got it. I understand that frustration gets the best of us at times. Truthfully the tone of yoru initial posting set me off a bit as well, and I probably should not have let it do so. I'll offer apologies there for the tone of it as well.
The central argument you seem to be offereing is that this is not a fix to a percieved range or effectivness problem with poisons. I would say that you're right. Because I don't think either of those things is necessarily a problem. (Well the range thing might be, and they may very well drop a 64m cap onto it, but I jsut don't know. If anythong we could argue, though, that if a poison cannot incap then tossing it that far isn't a big deal since it isn't, in and of itself, deadly.) I think that generally our poisons are probably going to be about right in power after some of the TC changed go through (I think they are currently underpowered, not overpowered.)
I don't think this possible change (and remember that it isn't live yet, and it is still subject to change or influence by those of us dicussing the matter, as has already been the case with the Item Decay changes) was meant to address either of those issues, assuming those even are issues. I think what it addresses is a griefing issue of the neverening incap problem that poisons currently have because of an incap delay timer. The balance must be scaled based on not allowing poisons to outright kill (like some kind of ranged insta-DB0 as that would be far too powerful, but to still have poisons cause a definitive sting. THe delay timer is a messy kludge. It's not a very good solution and this was a proposed fix for it that would hopefully fix the grienfing problem wtih the delay timer but not overly hurt poisons. It appears that it would change a few tactics, but I'm still not convinced that it overly harms poison effectiveness.
I DO think that this change would be better served by having several other things occur with it. Such as having ALL DoTs being unable to incap. I also think that when a poison ticks, in effect, beyond +1 it should have some secondary effect added in, such as ticking off wounds or instigating a state on the victim, like Dizzy, Intimidated, Stun, whatever.The same for all DoTs ticking past that +1 mark, actually. And those ideas were and have been presented to the Devs. What they will do with that, we just don't know. They haven't said. I don't know if this change will stay in, if it will be modified, if it will be mopdified sometime later, or what. I'm sure if we do get told Kave will do his duty and present that information as soon as they allow him to do so.
Is the change a Good thing and properly addressed the timer-delay option? I don;t really know for sure. I do think that it addresses the problem, but I don;t know if it's the right fix for the problem. Is it a BAD thing, even if it addresses that problem? I'm not really sure on that either, but I do think it is not as bad a thing as some poeple are making it out to be. It seems more like a neutral thing. To me the positives and negatives are too close for me to call on which side the scale tips. It's not heavily leaning to be either good or bad for me personally, it just... is with a tiny leaning towards the good side, but not by much.
If this change goes into effect it will kill the game for me. I've been a Master CM since about a month after the game started. I do not make it a habit of doing PvP, and rarely do. However, I do have Reb faction, and do occasionally get jumped by Overt Imps when I'm doing mission runs. I believe Poisons are the best defense CM's have. I have been left alone by Overt players because they know what I can do to them, even though theycould kill and DB me. What would be the fear in attacking CM now if we can't poison our attacker into incap mode? How come you don't stick you hand into a fire = it burns. How come you don't pet a skunk = it'll spray you and make you stink. How come you don't attack a CM = they'll poison you. If they limit our poisons what is the fear of attacking a CM now? Answer - NONE. This game had been circling the drain for a few months now. If this patch goes into effect, it'll be time for a flush from me. Or I could be like every other PvP charcter and become a Commando (until the DEVsnerf them). Or I guess we all could just sit around a campsite and sing campfire songs and hug.
This call for +1 HAM is bunk in my book. Let's make all weapons and skills stop at +1 HAM and see how long this game lasts.
Brauer, on Flurry
A bleed incap's doesn't it? to get a GOOD poison you have to have ALOT invested into the CM line. (master CM to make it and at least 8-12 boxed to just use a good one)
I don't recall where the bleeds are in the pistol line, but I have 0/0/2/0 in pistoleer and I get a good bleed (bleeds come in way before that too if I recall correctly). How exactly is this fair?
On another subject: With the upcoming pet nerf (only 1 pet out-faction perk or otherwise, max CL of 10) how are us CM's supposed to do missions? Since our poisons are SO innefective in PvE, and even if you use one it won't incap a mob now I'm assuming with the new nerf.
/sigh
I guess it doesn't matter too much to me, I've already started back in AO, this new nerf could make me completely stop playing this game.
I don't know if all dot's stop at +1 but I have tested poisons and bleeds and they both do. I am still trying to get with a commando to catch me on fire to test the fire dot.
I don't know if I can get the dev to reverse this. I brought up some of the points you are all arguing 5 days after this idea was put up one month ago. There were other options for fixing things but the DEV went with this not me.
