Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Some Q and A on upcomming changes
Bender, I agree that a band-aid fix is not a good fix, I would rather have seen some of the other suggestions for fixing the loot problems been implemented and then all the other issues addressed with their own fix. But this band-aid fixed alot of issues with the one drawback of not causing an incap with poison and it was a quick way to do it. I am also agains the "fix" they did in relation with the poisoning and diseasing of the incapped and dead. I would rather have a message that states "you cannot apply poison to this target" then to have the poison go off with a "target has resisted" message. I also think that the incapped should still be a target for disease.
All I can do is pass your thoughts and ideas up to the devs but they still have the final power to decide which way they want to go with something. I try to give you all a heads up with changes that taking place when I can, or if I see something on TC that wasn't mentioned but could effect CM's in a good or bad way. I wasn't expecting /healmind or the poison change in this patch but yet it's here.
Thanks KaveDawg 
Personally, in regards to the other issues, I don't know you and Zarlor well enough to pass any kind of judgement on your abilities as correspondent. I haven't posted in here before because I wasn't terribly upset with my profession (though I do agree it has some slight overpower and griefy aspects), I should have been here addressing those concerns before it became something I dislike.
All I ask is what you just gave, that you pass on the thoughts of both sides, pro and con.
I could be wrong, and this could be a wonderful change. I just really feel to the core that it is only going to lead to new problems in the future. When you pass my thoughts along, please stress that this change is not something that, to my belief, has been requested by the majority of players in the game (i.e. that poison should not incap). I want to be certain that they know they are making a change to something that was working fine, except with unintended consequences, rather than fixing the consequences. I truly doubt that if they found that something like slicing could be used to withdraw funds from others bank account, that they wouldmake slicing no longer work on terminals. Rather they would make it so thatbank accounts could not be accessed by others. Apples and oranges, yes, but reasonably accurate.
Here's some of the threads where this thing originally came up:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8800
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8859
Who is the complete moron who suggested the 1hp idea? They obviously dont play a combat medic. Most combat medics are cm/dr combinations. How is a cm/dr supposed to db something, with harsh language? Even if you aren't a cm/dr, and have cm with some weapons training, there ISN"T enough time in pvp for you a combat medic to toss area stims to heal the group, toss poisons, then shoot someone? It takes time to switch from stim to poison to a weapon. This 1hp left idea does absolutely NOTHING to help the combat medic. If there is a plus to any of this, please enlighten me.
First you have a rediculous timer on everything to do with combat medic. How many other professions have no timers on their weapons, 100 pistol shots a second, 100 kicks a second, then 1 poison every half hour by comparison. So the combat medic will not be able toincapANYTHING with any of the combat medic weapons, hmm - let me say that again. The combat medic CANNOT KILL ANYTHING ANYMORE, with any of the weapons in the combat medictree. What a great idea, I'm sure there are an awefull lot of TK's and Pistoleers and other professions who would luv to buy the person who came up with this idea a case of beer.
While we're on the subject of great ideas, lets do the same to other professions, TK's can no longer Incap anyone without using a rifle. Pistoleers cannot DB someone without using a landmine. Rifleman, sorry mate but if you want to incap someone your going to have to use a heavy sword. Does this make sense to anyone? It should, because it makes about as much sense as Combat Medics not being able to Incap anything with any of the combat medic weapons.
Combat medic is nerfed enough with the timers and resources as it is. Most combat medics spend half their time trying to find resources or make money for resources.It's so much harder to buy the harvesters, find the resources, mine the resources, experiment to make the stims than it is to go to a weaponsmith and buy a rifle/pisol/knuckler. I guess those points don't count for anything do they. What if a combat medic likes to solo hunt - BEEEEP- sorry, but since you can no longer incap/db anything, your going to have to find a group to play with. Its doesn't matter if the only hour a day you get to play is at 3am when nobody is on, find another server, or put in a ticket, maybe a sympathetic CSR will group with you, expect a response to your ticket 5 minutes after you logoff.
So your a combat medic and want to run some missions, sorry mate, but since you can't incap ANYTHING anymore, your going to have to settle with not doing missions and getting in line at the Faction point kitchen for free handouts, because the only way your going to get points is if : 1) someone gives them to you. 2) you find somewhere to place a faction point harvester.
What a waste of time this game turns out to be. Why not just scrub the combat medic totally and give the area stims to Doctors. Poisons and diseases aren't going to be worth the effort to make anyway, why bother. Why would someone become a combat medic now? For area stims? There are too many rifleman out there for area stims to matter enough to need a combat medic. This thread should be posted on every forum for every server, so that all the combat medics can prepare to give it up and choose another class.
This 1hp no incap update is the exact reason why SOE should check to make sure team leaders actually play the profession they are representing. I can't imagine anyone with in depth knowledge of the class and especially combat with a combat medic could come up with such a bloody horrible idea.
Brook : master cm/dr - Bria
> I can get those with a CDEF at 65m
Not if it's mind damage (except rifleman specials) or action damage (except carbine special), and using health potions in PvP - they can be healed by just about anyone.
You will be able to kill someone with 1hp, but even 45hp will be enough to keep person safe from non-special attacks.
So - I picked Carbiner - I will just have to hope that my 3sec "Scatter" will hit enough or in right time, while getting hammered / person getting healed....
This change is a HUGE boost to doctors - now one doctor completly neutrilzes CM (on top of healing/buffing) - comfortably healing himself first and then taking time healing all people who are not killed by CM and pounded him to death as soon as poison landed...
Exactly as predicted back when I asked for CM corresponded
wynlyndd wrote:
Zarlor wrote:
Now I do agree that maybe something shoudl be done to cover the fact aht you have to wait for the random hit to take out the pool you need. But at least your opponent will have a REALLY hard time doing anything to you without enough pool points to actually do any specials or even just to shoot in many cases. I also think that if this is implimented it should probably be implimented acros the board to all DoTs, just to clarify my position here.
Unfortunately, while I am focusing on a person to try and get that last little bit, even if he is no threat (and he still is if I throw a poison on one of his bars that his specials do not use), his buddies are still threats and will probably drop me down while I am dicking around trying to finish off a guy that should already be dead or incapped.
That should read "his buddies OR HIS PETS" since the way this game is structured even you concede almost everyone has them because they have to.
Yeah, but, that's sounds like a tactical change to me. It seems to me like you think we should be able to take on, without pets or friends, someone who has pets and friends and win 100% of the time. I don't think that should be the case. And someone did mention here that every shot does 10% of the primary damage to the other 2 pools. I don't remember seeing that documented, but if it's true then you should only ever need 1 shot to be the finishing blow, so not too much running around would be needed.
And I can't think of any specials (MAYBE if used with a CDEF) that wouldn't eat up at least some off of every HAM. Even with a high enough regen to slip a special in the timing would have to conincide with going off before the poison ticks the pool back down to 1 again. So I don't think specials will be a problem against us in this case, but I don't know for sure. (And I can't get on Test to duel Kavdawg to find out because of a hard drive problem... grrr...)
Zarlor wrote:
Now I do agree that maybe something shoudl be done to cover the fact aht you have to wait for the random hit to take out the pool you need. But at least your opponent will have a REALLY hard time doing anything to you without enough pool points to actually do any specials or even just to shoot in many cases. I also think that if this is implimented it should probably be implimented acros the board to all DoTs, just to clarify my position here.
Zalor dang it I really really wanted to stay out of this but You brought this up many many times in various posts:
I really don't see how someone with a 2k (buffed) mind bar will have a "REALLY hard time" getting off say 10 headshots before a 3rd tick? I can get a Laser Rifle doing over 350pts of damage every 3.0 seconds. Headshot that and I do 2-2.5x damage. Now If I have a mind buff as well 2k.
3 second rounds
Round 1 he gets first shot (Mindshot 2) at 64m (for 250pts) I have to wait til I hit 42m to throw. 2k-1750
Round 2 I get to through initial damage 0. He gets (bleed 250) (mindshot 1) 2k-1500
Round 3 I get to try and hit him with a D17 (hefty negs while moving) He gets (Bleed 400) (headshot 400) 2k-700
Round 4 I get out of range (BLEED 400) He is still waiting for 1 tick. 2k-300
Round 5 (Posion tick 800) 1200-incap
Where is you big plan of this being a good idea? Oh BTW IF he is a Sniper (SNIPERSHOT) now I'm cloning while he sits around waiting for the posion to wear off...OR IF TKA meditates out of it OR gets a Doc Cure. Or IF I am there with friends he's got plenty of mind left to pull of a burst run. Who is going to off him? If i'm there with friend he is probably too.
He gets the first shot plus 2 more before the first tick. We have been screaming for about a month not that we are not the most powerful kid on the block that a rifleman can do loads more damage in a tick but we were still viable because opur poison still ticks after we are gone and they will soon die too. And NOW??? We aren't worth the time in PvP.
And in case you haven't seen my post about the danged ewok who hit me from over 100m away to incap me. I'm not sure who I'm suppose to off him if he can hit me from over 100m and I will not fire til I hit 64m?
You fear a rifleman because of mindshot
you fear a carboneer because of full auto area (plus dizzy shot)
You fear a pistoleer because they can fire on the run plus have body shot and stopping shot
You fear a Doctor because they can counter your every stim.
You fear a commando because of ungodly fire
You fear a BH because of Eyeshot and torso shot
You fear a CM because of ???????Posions?? No they don't incap? Diseases? Maybe until they stop at +1 as well for the SAME reason as posions do now.
So, why do we PvP? and if an ewok can hit you from over 100m why do we PvE?
DedMnWlking wrote:
Zalor dang it I really really wanted to stay out of this but You brought this up many many times in various posts:
I'm not trying to annoy you, really I'm not. Just trying to play Devil's Advocate, if you will, and bring up the counterpoints where I can.
I really don't see how someone with a 2k (buffed) mind bar will have a "REALLY hard time" getting off say 10 headshots before a 3rd tick? I can get a Laser Rifle doing over 350pts of damage every 3.0 seconds. Headshot that and I do 2-2.5x damage. Now If I have a mind buff as well 2k.
But you have that problem now. What I meant was not taht they will ahve a problem while the poison ticks down, it has to do with what happens when the poison gets to the point where it would normally incap. In this case we are talking about the guy being down to 1hp on mind that might regen, if he's got a great Will stat and buff, say 70 points before it gets knowcked right back down to 1 again. So if they timed it right they MIGHT have enough pool points to get off a special, but they have to time it perfectly after they have regenned the points and before the poison ticks them right back down to 0.
3 second rounds
Round 1 he gets first shot (Mindshot 2) at 64m (for 250pts) I have to wait til I hit 42m to throw. 2k-1750
Round 2 I get to through initial damage 0. He gets (bleed 250) (mindshot 1) 2k-1500
Round 3 I get to try and hit him with a D17 (hefty negs while moving) He gets (Bleed 400) (headshot 400) 2k-700
Round 4 I get out of range (BLEED 400) He is still waiting for 1 tick. 2k-300
Round 5 (Posion tick 800) 1200-incap
Where is you big plan of this being a good idea? Oh BTW IF he is a Sniper (SNIPERSHOT) now I'm cloning while he sits around waiting for the posion to wear off...OR IF TKA meditates out of it OR gets a Doc Cure. Or IF I am there with friends he's got plenty of mind left to pull of a burst run. Who is going to off him? If i'm there with friend he is probably too.
Please stop trying to put words in my moth here. This not my big plan of this being a good idea, first off. I've said time and again that I am genrally on the fence on this, although I currently lean towards favoring it. In truth I am still undecided, however, until I've seen it in action.
So to answer the issue presented, where's the problem. You seem to suggest that this BH would incap you before your poison ticked them down to 0? In either case you are incap before that BH anyways, whether he goes incap or not. And IF he's a sniper, TKA or Doc, he'll cure it out anyways, Incap or no.
If he bursts, he could have done that anyways, and so could you. If you have friends you can burst chase, and if he has friends then you just use yoru skills to AoE poison them all cause your friends should have no trouble putting that final hit on them while youa re AoE curing their damage. Iether way I'm not sure I see what the huge difference is between incap and not from teh poison in these scenarios. I'm just dense on this, I guess.
He gets the first shot plus 2 more before the first tick. We have been screaming for about a month not that we are not the most powerful kid on the block that a rifleman can do loads more damage in a tick but we were still viable because opur poison still ticks after we are gone and they will soon die too. And NOW??? We aren't worth the time in PvP.
I really am stupid on this one. I just don't get it. The only difference I see here is that you want to be assured that in those few cases where some guy beats you in a fight, you can actually say that you beat them instead because you might come out of incap faster? And does this happen in every PvP fight you are in? You might need to change your tactic a bit if it is, but even so it sounds like right now you don't really have any risks in PvP. If not, is that really what we want? And if you are incurring no risks in PvP (except for this constant incap where you get up before the other guy so you can DB them) is that really much of a challenge or any fun for you?
And in case you haven't seen my post about the danged ewok who hit me from over 100m away to incap me. I'm not sure who I'm suppose to off him if he can hit me from over 100m and I will not fire til I hit 64m?
How are you going to get close to him in the first place to even throw the poison? And if you did get in to throw, it just means you need to heal up and go right back in one more time. If you survived the first time, why wouldn't you survive the second time if you prepared for it? And if that Ewok is that badassed, is it even something you should be taking on solo to begin with? The Devs have stated there is conent in the game that was never meant to be soloed, but it sounds like you should still be able to solo this if you were able to get close enough for the throw in the first place without getting incapped.
[snip of all the other classes we all fear]
You fear a CM because of ???????Posions?? No they don't incap? Diseases? Maybe until they stop at +1 as well for the SAME reason as posions do now.
So, why do we PvP? and if an ewok can hit you from over 100m why do we PvE?
If a poison incaps or not, folks will fear it. It means no specail use. Extreme vulnerability and being held extremely vulnerable until a Doc can cure that poison (or disease). Or so it seems to me, at least. Not having seen this in action I can;t be certain, but I'm just trying to the the mental jumping jacks on this one like everyone else who isn't on TC.
At any rate, we PvP to get people down, way down, on their HAMs so they can't really do anything (except maybe run in fear) and then you just chase them down, hehe. We PvE because... well frankly if it weren't for CM poisons I'd barely be able to solo anything. Poisons make all the difference in the world on the stuff I can solo and my poisons RARELY get the incap blow. My gun does, or a groupmates weapon does, or a pet does, or a droid does, etc.
So considering how rarely I've seen stuff go down strictly because of poison, I guess I'm just having a hard time seeing how this is really an issue.
Kavedawg wrote:
seriously, start a thread and call a vote, I will remove myself if the majority wants me gone. however you are complaining about something you have not tried out or seen just how slanted is that?
Agreed. Please quit. I'd rather CMs have no correspondent thatsomeone such as yourself. Thank for offering to quit now before irreparable damage to the class has been done. If its not too late to pull the change before it goes live.
TsunamiKata wrote:
AllGalaxies wrote:
Obviously his idea was to come to our boards and put a big nerf on CMs. I have no respect for him at this point. It was a rotten thing to do, and only a hater would do such a thing. I know 3 CMs on Shadowfire that plan to quit the game because of the NerfZarlor has suggested as a cure for CMs. I myself plan to drop it and pick up something that at least will be viable in PvP if this goes live. Way to chase ppl out of a profession Zarlor. To think I used to think he was above nerfing other classes and instead chose to promote Doctor, now I see he is into nerfing other classes in order to promote Doctor.
Zarlor === no more respect from me!!!
Bochy,
I do not see you contributing to this forum. In fact, I just did a search on your contribution to the CM forum and all I've found was 7 replies in 4 separate threads within the Combat Medic Forum.
And for you to come on to this forum board blasting people as you're doing right now is an ourage. Until you have contructively contributed to this forum, you do not have the right to criticize someone.
You don't even know what it means to be a Combat Medic, have you endure the pain and hardship went this profession was first started? All you're doing is reaping the reward of those who painstakenly contributed, written, and offered suggestions to the Developers and on this forum.
For you to bash Zarlor like this is a blashpemy.
Actually I consider it blasphemy for anyone to try to defend Zarlor. He screwed up. Badly. If he isn't man enough to admit it and try to get this grievous error corrected is an injustice to every CM in the game currently and all future CMs.
Valkahr wrote:
Actually I consider it blasphemy for anyone to try to defend Zarlor. He screwed up. Badly. If he isn't man enough to admit it and try to get this grievous error corrected is an injustice to every CM in the game currently and all future CMs.
Excuse me? I'm more than man enough to stand up for the fact that I don't see any "grevious error" being made here. Back it up, son, if you think you can. Refute the arguments. Step up to the plate and PROVE to us, beyond the shadow of ANY doubt, that this change would utterly ruin the CM profession, and I'll stand right there and admit I was wrong. Until then all I will do is stand by my position that I don't know how good or bad this thing is, but that I'm utterly convinced it is not as bad as some of you seem to think it will be.
You speak of injustice? You know nothing of the word.
You speak of manhood? Show me that you have any. I'm willing to stand by and back my word, and I am just as willing to as to debate you on the matter if you just show me that you have the manhood to do it.
BTW, Val, where where you or the rest of these folks who are so adamantly against this when the idea was first brought up almost a month ago? You didn't step in then with yuour reservations so I could have made them known to our Dev.
I screwed up NOTHING. I offered an idea, I get responses on the idea, I send that and the responses our dev ASKED for to him INCLUDING THOSE WHO THOUGH IT MIGHT NOT BE A GOOD IDEA. It was HIS choice what to do from there.
Get your facts straight before condeming me.