Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Suggestions to get doctor if you want to fight cm's are rediculous
saladin123 wrote:
I have seen some people post on these boards saying that "if you want to fight cm's get 4030 doctor" or something stupid like that. Bounty Hunters and Commandos do not have the skill points for this. Even if you are not a Bounty Hunter or a Commando, one should not have to get skills in doctor just so they can be effective against ONE proffesion. I definetly dont advocate a nerf im just saying that these are not solutions.
doesn't always work even, just one tick is enough to throw the balance in a fight and give me a loss and with any lag its not that hard for one or two ticks to go off if the cm is throwing many poisons
Morganite wrote:
...Since that is impossible in this game, I am curious what in the blue hell you are talking about here. Have you never heard of "support fire"? ask a military person, they can explain it to you....
Good Recommendation. (note: sorry I am too lazy to reply point by point so I will just dump em all together)
I was in military and I did serve in active duty under hostile condition. But it is alwasy possible that I remebered it wrong so I did look it up again. So I went straight to source.
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-21.11/c01.htm
There are lot of good stuff to read there. And as I remembered, "support fire" is a support manuevere performed by COMBAT unit. I noticed that on rest of your reply that there seem to be a confusion between SUPPORT performed by Combat Support unit and support MANUEVERS performed by Combat Units.
And yes I also made things very confusing by mixing up combat support like Artillary and Combat Service Support like Combat Medics, but I did that because both serve same purpose in military, which is to ASSIST(support) in primary combat unit from performing their duty.
And as for your post I quoted, I understood that previous poster said CM was support because 90% of CM's exp come from medic. That was his logic as I understood. I don't think he said that as "support" CM did not belong in combat. YOU stated that 100% of Doc's XP came from medic and that makes Doc support. Which is same logic as the prvious poster I agree. But you went further and said THEREFORE Doctors does not belong in battlefield. Which is not part of the logic previous poster layed out.
I went and re-read as you suggested and I still think thats the way it went. If I misread it then I have no problem you correcting me.
Morganite wrote:
IlyaMasool wrote:
Morganite wrote:...100% of a doctors exp comes from medic, so lets get them off the battlefield as well.. No more rez's, no more cure states, or any type of heals for that matter, they dont belong on the battlefield according to your "logic"...
Are you aware of the definition of the word support? as in "to keep (something) going"?
Rezzing combatant so they can go back to fight is a support. Picking up the dead dude's gun and start firing yourself is not support. Since that is impossible in this game, I am curious what in the blue hell you are talking about here. Have you never heard of "support fire"? ask a military person, they can explain it to you.
Curing stats so they can continue to fight is support. Letting your groupmate die from poison/disease and instead trying to poison/disease the enemy is NOT support. CM's cannot cure dot's other then giving first aid, so they have no means to cure disease, and can only heal stats as a means of combating poison.
Healing DAMAGE so that your groupmate can keep fighting is support. letting your groupmate die and trying to cause damage to the enemy is NOT support. Agreed, once you get people to agree to stop using buff's so healing actually means something, you would have a very valid point. The ratio of heals to DoT's a CM uses is around 5:1 healsoT's.
It is your logic that you "support" by standing next to a combatant and fire your weapon? that is not combat support. A combat medic's only weapon is his pitching arm, so the talk about firing your weapon is off base. A combat medic gives what could be classified as indirect fire put into a battle. (We will ignore that aoe doesnt affect EVERYONE, since AOE weapon's attacks do not either) Combat medic's dont get weapons other then novice marksman weapons, they get medical DoT's.
Thats combat.
How do you support without being in the battlefield? with prayer? Read below..
BTW, artillary IS Support unit. Artilerry isn't usually actually on the battlefield, they are 20-50 miles behind it, but they are combat units, they get CIB's for being in a war zone.
Some Navy ships are support ships and some are combat ships. And all of them are typically nowhere near the battlefield unless you would be talking sub vs. sub warfare.
Some planes are support planes, like refueling planes, and some are combat planes. The combat planes SUPPORT ground troops by not allowing enemy air to have an effect on the outcome of the battle, and bombers SUPPORT infantry by blowing up bridges, bombing enemy vehicles.
While I was refuting your "points", I realized your entire quoted part of my post had absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote. The poster stated, well, reread what he said, 90% of a CM's exp comes from medic, so he has no place on the battlefield anyway, I countered with a doc's XP comes 100% from medic, so then he defintely doesnt belong according to the poster I quoted's logic...
It says it in every combat box you have.....xx support xx. Oh and the fact 90 percent of your exp comes from medic skills.
That is what I said. I didn't....Beacuse CM are mainly healers and most of their exp is healin exp they dont belong on the battlefield. The fact you have some combat boxes obviously proves you have a place on the battlefield, not to mention your profession includes COMBAT medic. The point of being a support class is to keep your groupmates alive.
What I see a Combat Medic is someone who tosses a poison/disease then concentrates on healing with ranged heals. Not to throw a poison...wait...throw a poison...wait...thats not combat support. Thats decimating your opponent because there is no way to counteract the amout of poison coming.
You spend what? 28 points in combat related boxes....whereas a commando spends over 100 and is still not even a quater as efficenet(sp) in stopping an attack as a MEDIC!!
As for the asinine statements about about artillery being 20-25 miles away...come on, you're comparing real life warfare to a fvcking sci-fi video game. Lets use your logic for support. A CM can now offically throw poisons over 1000m because support has no place on the battlefield. Doctros can now rez, cure state, cure poison, buff safely off planet from a star destroyer....god knows we dont want them in the line of fire.
oT's. CMs seem to forget that they are the ONLY profession that can heal mind, yes you get hammered with wounds, but those 4-5 mind heals you can get off can often times mean win or loss, drop the mind wounds and CM become more combat support then doctors.Message Edited by Mercuri on 05-04-2004 02:47 PM
Poisonor Disease is there attack, how can you claim cm dont have an attack?
Rchuno wrote:
Whatnot wrote:
Tataomm wrote:
Iporz wrote:
If you want to be effective against TKMs and their kd/dizzy, you get fencer.
Or you simply kite them with a ranged class. Perhaps even look into eating some of the widely available anti-KD food.
If you want to be effective against Ranged profs, you master a ranged prof so as to get mitigation 3.
I think some nice 80% composite armor goes a long way to protecting against ranged profs.
If you want to be effective against cm's you get some doctor skills.
Or... oh wait. There is no effective defense against CM's other than doctor skills. All classes, except for CM,in this game can be countered without the need to change your template.
It's all a tradeoff. Thats what makes it a GAME. It takes strategy (Unless you happen to be a CM). It takes balls(Unless you happen to be a CM). Can you get them before they get you (Not unless you happen to be a doctor as well as a combat profession)? Thats what it comes down to (Being the FoTM). The reason people dont like CM's is because the effects linger after dispatching the CM who threw them (Not to mention the fact that they can destroy a group of 20 prepared fighters with one flick of the wrist). That is why they are called DOT's. CM will lose a fight against multiple opponents. Straight up. They will lose. No defense. Their friends will then whip ur ass because you have 500 mind wounds and 1(10000000) mind left. Thats what pisses people off (Exactly!). They dont take the time to think that maybe a doc and a dancer is a worthwhile addition to ur pvp group (Do people PvP without docs anymore? A lot of good it does them). Those who do realize dont come here and cry for a nerf.
Allow me to add some facts to your post.
1. CM's can wear armor, yet their attack bypasses all armor.
CMs don't have an attack
2. CM's are the only profession whose attack is not affected by the 75% PvP damage reduction.
CMs don't have an attack
3. CM's are the only class whose DOT's haven't been nerfed.
CMs don't have an attack. All they have is a DOT
4. CM's AOE is the largest area of effect in the game.
That is because it is from their only DOT
5. CM's range in the largest in the game.
A bug that is being worked on already
6. (In the interest of completeness) CM's have to stand still for 4 seconds after throwing their poison.
Yeup.
But I for one don't see any balance problem.
OK I for one see this as people thinking that either poisons are an attack and a DOT. This is not the case they either have to be an attack or a DOT but not both. So if you complain about both it just looks silly because some say that the damage should be reduced like everyone elses attacks and that it should be reduced like other peoples' bleeds.
Back to the whole point of the thread. A TKM/HSM/Scout4XXX would be my prefered way to take down a CM. Maybe even fencer instead of HSM. Burst run in after the sucker and nail him in the head. If you are a smart PvPer (and I know I will offend some people here, sorry) you will be wathing the system messages. You will recieve the message that you have been poisoned at the same time the CM has been stuck. so you will have 4 seconds to close in. They will then throw a second poison or a disease at you causeing them to be stuck another 4 seconds which should give you enough time to get to them and lay them on their arses with TK and then beat them in the head with your power hammer or baton. More than likely they do not have scout 4XXX which makes your burst run last alot longer. After they are dead (which takes about 8 seconds or so once they are on their backs you will be down to almost no mind, they are dead and you meditate it off. This all took about 28-30 seconds meaning 3 full ticks of poison and 10 seconds till disease sets in and at TKM you should be able to avoid most of the disease.
Message Edited by Rchuno on 04-26-2004 09:53 PM
Fynite wrote:
Poisonor Disease is there attack, how can you claim cm dont have an attack?
IlyaMasool wrote:
Morganite wrote:...100% of a doctors exp comes from medic, so lets get them off the battlefield as well.. No more rez's, no more cure states, or any type of heals for that matter, they dont belong on the battlefield according to your "logic"...
Are you aware of the definition of the word support? as in "to keep (something) going"?
You're argument falls flat here. You are only taking one definition for the word support; www.dictionary.com has this:
- To bear the weight of, especially from below.
Sure we bear the weight of making sure our PvP team does not die in combat whehter that be with heals or by destroying the enemy. We are support in this capacity and extremely good at it.
- To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
We keep the battle from sinking, or slipping to the enemy, we keep our troops from falling on the field of battle with our heals
- To be capable of bearing; withstand: “His flaw'd heart... too weak the conflict to support” (Shakespeare).
We can withstand because we are effective so we are capable on the battle field.
- To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
Past tense, we have supported many a winning and failing attempt on the battlefield.
- To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
HEre is the rub, we rely on others for this, others have to provide for our maintenance and money or necessities.
- To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
- To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
- To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
Does not apply really.
- To endure; tolerate: “At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult” (Samuel Johnson).
We provide our troops and group members the ability to support the tumult. We keep our people alive and we are up to the challenge.
- To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
This is actually what you all WANT us to be, this is the ONLY definition that fits your criteria, you want us to be a second class profession that you can walk on as easily as that poor Nuna outside Kadaara, in fact the Nuna might in reality give youa better challenge.
- The act of supporting.
- The state of being supported.
- One that supports.
We do this in combat, we support from multiple areas. Not only do we provide support by healing our troops when they need it, we also provide support by weakening the enemy.
- Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.
One thing you also have to understand, in military terms, the word support actually takes on additional meanings beyond what is discussed in the dictionary. The truth is that an M60 machine gun, a Mk19 Grenade launcher, or a .50 caliber machine gun are all crew served SUPPORT weapons. They provide support by helping the squad they are attached to survive attacks from units they are not specifically outfitted to fight. Case in point. A 50 caliber machinegun is to protect against light-skinned vehicles. The standard infantry company is not outfitted to handle an attack from that type of unit so 50 cals are issued to server with the Infantry Unit to SUPPORT them.
This is where the combat medic fits. We are a zerg breaker, and an armor penetrator. Those players with 80% stun and 80% resist armor are still susceptable to the Combat Medic which means we SUPPORT our team by providing a service they are not specifically designed to counter themselves. In this role, the armored guys that I referred to actually support CMs. We are weak and cannot stand up to that type of player when the combat starts, that is why WE need SUPPORT to help keep us alive.
Support does not mean that all we do is provide medicine, supplies and an occasional heal on the battlefield, support is a much more broad word than that.
just give the docs some area cures
implement some kind of a antidote,like a food that puts up your resist against poison/disease
Mikeb1113 wrote:
Master Meditation for TK can cure poison, diease, and any resulting wounds.
Problem solved, end of thread.
Well that is only one prof. Other profs can't do that. So basicaly what they want is a way that totaly counteracts or mostly counteracts the CMs poisons without picking up another profesion that can get rid of the poison/disease imediatly.
soulcollector58 wrote:
2 ideas to combat CM/riflemen's advantages ..... make docs use less mind for healing than anyother healing class , area state heals