Combat Medic Archive
Thread: 75% damage reduction is in order...
joey1342 wrote:
-ability to area disease an entire group from 64 meters away and in 10 seconds the entire group is black barred in mind. No matter how ya cut it thats unbalance.
Must be expensive and rare spider venom enhanced disease you're talking about. Either that or that group has very tiny minds. Oh and it takes 40seconds for that to tick. Get your facts straight and stop trolling.
-now whena cmcomplains about being killed easily by another profession is all just silliness. If you are a master cm you can also master rifleman...the best working class in the game. Now...rifleman brings with it good defenses and insane weaponry. Please do not try and use the excuse that your spending all your points so you should be able to throw 1200 tick mind diseases around. You can master any ranged profession with cm and you also can stack with the proper ranged profession combo if you really wanted to.
Yup rifles gives us our defenses. Pistols gives better. Fencer gives great defenses...but wait we cant master fencer. Ah but a fencer can master TK and double those defenses and abilities and still have enough to get novice medic and run up a full tree or another novice prof. So can a pistoleer, carbineer, etc except for the hybrids. Every class has their version of insane weaponry or specials. The big difference is that our stuff is a disposable. After 30+ uses that nice enhanced disease you mentioned above is gone from this world. Do krayt jawa's or nym VK's last only 30 uses? Didn't think so.
-everyone else has the 75% pvp reduction. Its simply an un-balance that cm's are not effected by a system everyone else must endure...if I hit people for pve damage in pvp I would one hit kill everyone. Its only fair...every single argument I have read about why cm's don’t need 75% reduction has the clear want to stay the overpowered class that you are mentality within it. Which I can see why...cm is an insane class...imo a cm/rifleman is near invincible.
Unbuffed I can get hit once by commando, twice by a tk, and 3 times by a fencer (all of this in the space of 3 seconds) and die. My poisons take 10secs before they cause any damage, dont incap unless stacked with a disease, can be cured in a shorter period of time by a doctor than it takes to apply them.
-the math: 75% reduction will not make cm worthless as I have read over and over in this forum. Lets say you’re only an average cm. Your poison tics for 400 in pvp. Now the fix happens and it tics for 100...coupled with a disease this is still an extremely powerful ability. You mean to tell me 2 mind pool dot's that are ticking at 200 together is not strong?
100 damage every 10 seconds. How many specials can you spam in 10 seconds? Lets see TK=10 Fencer=10 Rifleman=10 Carbineer=10 (but he'll probably commite carbicide doing it), Pistols=10 (they usually make the cap at novice or 1). Now lets say I'm wearing 80% kinetic and a tk runs up and kd/dizzies me. He hits me for 5k pve damage. Now with the 75% reduction that gets lowered to 1250. Now since he's wearing VK which are AP1 he takes no penalities for hitting armor so now he just has to contend with the resist. Against 80% kinetic he now hits for 250. Yup 250 PER SECOND. So in 10sec he does 2500 damage. Hmm my poison good stuff is going to tick for 640 after 10seconds. My disease ticks for 400+ every 40 seconds. So now look me square in the eye and tell me that poison is that big of a deal. If stimB's could healMIND we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we because you'd shrug off a health poison easy?
-I think the biggest case the cm's here have been making is they get owned in pvp...this is plain silliness. You’re a cm, which means you want to pvp...,so what did you do with the other 81 skill points? No one is cm simply for the area healing...if so then you don’t need to be master. If you are truly a cm for the pvp then you have the points to be a combat class as well. Even if you die as a cm you know who killed you will likely die too without a doc's help.
Actually without master you only get 75 cm medicine use and therefore your area heals suck since you cant use C packs with are usually 91 med use. I actually got into CM since I hated chasing after group members and I could heal the entire group. PvP was the last thing on my mind but now its the first thing on my mind. Also unless I toss a disease on top of that poison you aren't going to die from my poisons. Someone else might get you but thats the same as accumulating combat damage. I doubt anyone else will get you though. My lovely jawa will more than likely incap you before my poison ticks twice. It will however make you husband your specials and is great for making TKs useless since they cant spam kd/dizzy instead of making ranged prof.'s useless by putting them in a death loop. Nope some of our biggest cases have nothing to do about poisons at all. Personally my biggest gripe is that I have to buy my ranged stim subcomponents from a doctor to make the best possible ranged and area heals. Otherwise I only get to use 5 exp points with an 18% failure per experimentation...and that sucks.
please understand I like the cm's, but since I pvp so much I know first hand they have too much sway in battles. To take down an entire group of 20 from 64 meters away in 10 seconds is just craziness. What a 75% reduction would add is the ability to survive those 1-tic deaths. Its only fair...can a pikeman kill someone in 80% kinetic armor in 1 swing?
You sir got hit with a rare disease and if you've ever seen a CM in a fight then you'd know that our diseases suck in pvp and our poisons dont do that much damage in one tick.
we can use pikeman as an example of why cm's need balancing. Pikeman have 2 damage types Electricity (which is composites natural special protection) and kinetic...who doesn’t have kinetic armor in the pvp realm? Now if a cm with no other skills just master cm fights a pike with un-looted weapons...is the cm going to loose in 80% kinetic composite armor?? Pikeman are useless unless they loot an uber weapon. So, is it really logical to say cm's get owned, when a pikeman will barely even tough a cm by the time the disease tics them to death? That’s just one example. It’s very balancing to give the cm the reduction. They are simply way to powerful for the current pvp system.
Pikeman get to buy an uber weapon that will be around for a very very long time. CM's still have to buy or farm the heck out of their materials to make their stuff. When was the last time a pistoleer had to craft his/her own weapon after 30 shots? I hear people griefing about uber composite but I have yet to see what they're really griefing about. Maybe its melee vs. melee with their huge damage mitigation skills that make them grief. Yeah the fight lasts a little longer a whole 5 sec's more than before but its still too fast. If both are buffed up including dancer/musician, doctor, and brandy buffs. Who's gonna win? The pikeman of course. The CM dieswhile the poisonhas to fight the regen from the mind buffs. And even without the mind buffs the poison does what exactly? Yup nothing but drains the mind. The CM is dead even before he can toss a disease. Your grief has nothing to do with poisons in general. You grief only concerns MIND related poison and disease.
brainplay wrote:
Must be expensive and rare spider venom enhanced disease you're talking about. Either that or that group has very tiny minds. Oh and it takes 40seconds for that to tick. Get your facts straight and stop trolling. -if you think that venom is rare you have another thing comming...it is indded not as rare as it should be. And if your disease takes 40 seconds to tick its broken as these were 15 second max and black barring the entire group.
Yup rifles gives us our defenses. Pistols gives better. Fencer gives great defenses...but wait we cant master fencer. Ah but a fencer can master TK and double those defenses and abilities and still have enough to get novice medic and run up a full tree or another novice prof. So can a pistoleer, carbineer, etc except for the hybrids. Every class has their version of insane weaponry or specials. The big difference is that our stuff is a disposable. After 30+ uses that nice enhanced disease you mentioned above is gone from this world. Do krayt jawa's or nym VK's last only 30 uses? Didn't think so. -Your failing to realize that their stacking should balance with you cm skills. In a balance pvp world both parties should put up a good fight. and again...spider venom is far from rare so saying your only getting 30 uses is silliness.
Unbuffed I can get hit once by commando, twice by a tk, and 3 times by a fencer (all of this in the space of 3 seconds) and die. My poisons take 10secs before they cause any damage, dont incap unless stacked with a disease, can be cured in a shorter period of time by a doctor than it takes to apply them. - this scenarion is your fault for not taking a combat profession. If you didnt want to get killed in pvp so easily you would grind a combat profession. All your proving here is you want to be uber in pvp without and uber pvp template.
100 damage every 10 seconds. How many specials can you spam in 10 seconds? Lets see TK=10 Fencer=10 Rifleman=10 Carbineer=10 (but he'll probably commite carbicide doing it), Pistols=10 (they usually make the cap at novice or 1). Now lets say I'm wearing 80% kinetic and a tk runs up and kd/dizzies me. He hits me for 5k pve damage. Now with the 75% reduction that gets lowered to 1250. Now since he's wearing VK which are AP1 he takes no penalities for hitting armor so now he just has to contend with the resist. Against 80% kinetic he now hits for 250. Yup 250 PER SECOND. So in 10sec he does 2500 damage. Hmm my poison good stuff is going to tick for 640 after 10seconds. My disease ticks for 400+ every 40 seconds. So now look me square in the eye and tell me that poison is that big of a deal. If stimB's could healMIND we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we because you'd shrug off a health poison easy?-for you to say an over 600 tic health poison is shrugged off easily is more silliness. Any poison that tics for 600 is not an easy task to defend. If stim b's cured mind we would still have this conversation because stim b's dont stop 1 tic black bar mind disease.
Actually without master you only get 75 cm medicine use and therefore your area heals suck since you cant use C packs with are usually 91 med use. I actually got into CM since I hated chasing after group members and I could heal the entire group. PvP was the last thing on my mind but now its the first thing on my mind. Also unless I toss a disease on top of that poison you aren't going to die from my poisons. Someone else might get you but thats the same as accumulating combat damage. I doubt anyone else will get you though. My lovely jawa will more than likely incap you before my poison ticks twice. It will however make you husband your specials and is great for making TKs useless since they cant spam kd/dizzy instead of making ranged prof.'s useless by putting them in a death loop. Nope some of our biggest cases have nothing to do about poisons at all. Personally my biggest gripe is that I have to buy my ranged stim subcomponents from a doctor to make the best possible ranged and area heals. Otherwise I only get to use 5 exp points with an 18% failure per experimentation...and that sucks. - crafing wise your not overpowered so i need not address...thats in your 5 issues typa deal. Med use tapes dont work? cause i am 99% sure they do and a +1 is hardly a tough thing to buy. And with a 36% stun helmet the jawa cannot kill a good stacker without the poison before you die.
You sir got hit with a rare disease and if you've ever seen a CM in a fight then you'd know that our diseases suck in pvp and our poisons dont do that much damage in one tick. - the disease was far from rare. I have been 1 tic black barred (800 mind bar) by 3 different cm's on my server...that seems common to me. those disease far from suck they made us incappable of even fighting anymore.
Pikeman get to buy an uber weapon that will be around for a very very long time. CM's still have to buy or farm the heck out of their materials to make their stuff. When was the last time a pistoleer had to craft his/her own weapon after 30 shots? I hear people griefing about uber composite but I have yet to see what they're really griefing about. Maybe its melee vs. melee with their huge damage mitigation skills that make them grief. Yeah the fight lasts a little longer a whole 5 sec's more than before but its still too fast. If both are buffed up including dancer/musician, doctor, and brandy buffs. Who's gonna win? The pikeman of course. The CM dieswhile the poisonhas to fight the regen from the mind buffs. And even without the mind buffs the poison does what exactly? Yup nothing but drains the mind. The CM is dead even before he can toss a disease. Your grief has nothing to do with poisons in general. You grief only concerns MIND related poison and disease. -see most of your reponses were decently thought out and fun to reply to, but this one is beyond insulting to an 8 month strong pikeman. First, melee vs. melee duels...good duels with good templates...can last up to and exceeding 5 minutes...dont believe me hop on my server and watch me duel some elite pvp'rs. Second, a pikeman buffed in all 9 stats vs. a cm with same skills. The cm would destroy the pikeman, UNLESS the pikeman had a looted weapon. Then it would be close. Do you not realize pikeman do electric and kinetic damage?? Thats what almost every composite suit out there focuses on. Also, its unfair that piekman are so handicapped without a looted weapon. SO, say a pikeman buys the eber looted weapon...they last a long time? for who? i pvp all the time and fly through my dot lances. Dot's run out on lances. No mater how uber the loot its limited by uses. (nd those -1 use ones will be removed next publish). Lastly, i would like to say i only talked about mind dot's cause thats what most cm's use. cm's know which pool is hardest to heal, thus they attack it. My problem is with the wounding ability of the cm. They are a support class not a front line pvp class so they should not be able to destroy armies of people that is not their role. Your case is valid, if and only if, the cm's are supposed to be stronger than every other class when it comes to battle field fighting. Everyone else felt the dot bat on bleeds, and everyone else has the 75% reduction. It balancing and FAIR for cm's to be brought to equality with everyone else.
joey1342 wrote:
brainplay wrote:
Must be expensive and rare spider venom enhanced disease you're talking about. Either that or that group has very tiny minds. Oh and it takes 40seconds for that to tick. Get your facts straight and stop trolling. -if you think that venom is rare you have another thing comming...it is indded not as rare as it should be. And if your disease takes 40 seconds to tick its broken as these were 15 second max and black barring the entire group.
Lying and exaggerating does nothing to help your cause my friend. Poison ticks once every 10 seconds diseases ticks once every 40 seconds. This has been tested and proven so many times over this is getting really old.
Unbuffed I can get hit once by commando, twice by a tk, and 3 times by a fencer (all of this in the space of 3 seconds) and die. My poisons take 10secs before they cause any damage, dont incap unless stacked with a disease, can be cured in a shorter period of time by a doctor than it takes to apply them. - this scenarion is your fault for not taking a combat profession. If you didnt want to get killed in pvp so easily you would grind a combat profession. All your proving here is you want to be uber in pvp without and uber pvp template.
Getting diseases is your fault for not getting the doctor profession. So the two cancels each other out.
is this that fun? no. is it effective...yes its pure grief tactic..and it works...im personally rifle/cm andI have been known to take on small groups with success..even small groups with 1 doc just gotta know when to kite and use terrain ect to your advantage.Everyone should be subject to the same rules!!
Combat Medic was supposed to be, according to the Developers, a Support Role.
It's turned full circle and become the all-out offensive profession that 25-50% of the people you encounter now in battle are.
The biggest problem there isonly minorprotection agianst poison or disease that is taking up doc prof or having a doc with you. They need to add more things in game that can counter these things.
Sure you may come across loot that has 10 resist vs poison or disease but that isnt alot of resist. You may find attachments that has the resist but those are rare.
Message Edited by Fynite on 05-06-2004 12:54 AM
joey1342 wrote:
lol@mild that reponse made my case for me. Its my fault for not throwing a minimum of 97 points into doc that i cant survive disease. Clearly, you are a cm who likes being over-powered and would obviosuly not want the FIX.
Everyone should be subject to the same rules!!
*points to .sig*
If any of the words in there are to long or to hard for you I will be happy to translate them into smaller and simpler ones. Don't be affraid to ask.
Whats there to FIX if it aint broke?
Once again ur missing the point. Lemme clarify it for you again. The reason there is a 75% reduction for combat classes in PvP is cuz say a Riflemen with a halfway decent rifle will be able to hit for up to 3-4k dmg. Buffed, armored or not that is a one shot kill or dang close to one.
A CM with an above avarage pack can only hit for around 600 to a single target per hit. No insta kill here. This gives u a chance to a)Run or b) Fight back.
To subject the CM to a 75% reduction would make it a class that is not worth the skill points spent as the poison/disease dmg could be achieved with DOT weapons. What would then happen is a mass exodus of CM's to other classes. Thus we would have effectively killed off another class - much like the Creature Handler. THAT is my point.
To ask for a simillar 75% reduction is thus not only unresonable - but shows the limited scope by which you have viewed this debate - that is from the viewpoint of a non-CM only. A CM its own is a support class, only when it is coupled with a pure combat class does it come into its own. Thats why I am also a Rifleman. Do we own in combat? Are we able to wade in and take 20 guys out? In a nutshell - no. Many a time we too have to back off as we too get hit by poisons and diseases. Difference btw you and me? I deal with it - you dont.
Swerve
Starsider
Masta Rifles and CM....and proud of it!
PhoenixOrion wrote:
Combat Medic was supposed to be, according to the Developers, a Support Role.
It's turned full circle and become the all-out offensive profession that 25-50% of the people you encounter now in battle are.
you guys all make my case for me...the only reason you want things to stay unfair is because you enjoy being more powerful than the rest of the combat field. CM is not supposed to be the strongest class in the game which it is. You guys just want to keep the elite status you have in pvp is all.
Now you both have ruined your credibility with me by being insulting and childish. I wont respond to either of your childishly backed arguements anymore. I not once insulted anyones intelect. So, you two can pack those sentiments up and keep em. I came here to converse im a mature manner and have civilizied not childish debates.
joey1342 wrote:
you guys all make my case for me...the only reason you want things to stay unfair is because you enjoy being more powerful than the rest of the combat field. CM is not supposed to be the strongest class in the game which it is. You guys just want to keep the elite status you have in pvp is all.
Now you both have ruined your credibility with me by being insulting and childish. I wont respond to either of your childishly backed arguements anymore. I not once insulted anyones intelect. So, you two can pack those sentiments up and keep em. I came here to converse im a mature manner and have civilizied not childish debates.
Ok I'm sorry but I have to add 2 cents. Since the dawn of this game people have been screaming nerf. It started with what TK and has rolled downhill everysince. Anytime one prof is balanced up a bit someone screams about it. Stop whining, you know what I hate, being knocked down in one hit(dizzied) and not being able to get back up. How exciting, knockdown, hit in the head, dead. SOE is acutally starting to do a very good job at balancing all the roles so that large scale PvP requires many different classes. We raided a base the other night and needed, Master docs to rez and heal, Commando to help take out turrets, CM's to help close range heal and poison. TK's to help get in close. I could go on and on. All the SUPPORTING role profs are not going to match EVENLY when done in a 1v1 setting and here is your problem. SOme idiot looses to a CM and throws up the nerf flag. "well I lost, golly garsh darn, the class must be to strong" I can't tell you how many times I've thrown poison only to be bumrushed, dizzy kd'd and can NEVER get back up. THIS IS FAIR??? KD'd once and can't get back up til my skull is bashed in??? You see me posting on other prof forums about that??? I try to use my brain and figure out a way to beat other classes because guess what folks...Life isn't going to deal the cards so EVERY prof is exactly even. You want that, go play UT or Halo. That uber poison that ticks 1400 or whatever is dwindling daily. I myself have nothing that does over 600. So try to be open minded, take a look at the whole picture, and really think about EVERYTHING in context.