Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Thyroid rupture: -40.00 combat speed, unbalanced
Ternque01 wrote:
Kaukiji wrote:
Iney wrote:
NOPE
quite possible the most intelligent reply to this thread i have seen
*sarcasm off*
Smuggler's Low Blow has a combat speed debuff of -40 also. I tested this yesterday and the day before on a snake and a piket, and both tests showed that it cut a target's speed by no more than 25%.A 25% debuff is FAR, FAR from inbalanced. Perhaps this is the intelligent post you were looking for?
There is no need to nerf this skill for Combat Medics OR Smugglers, and losing another working/useful skill due to someone crying for a nerf out of anger/spite/frustration/upset/hatred/etc. would be a poor move, indeed.
um, i didnt say anything was unbalanced, personally i think CM debuffs should be evened with doctor's buffs if not higher.....all i was saying is NOPE is far from an intelligent post
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Intimidate is a skill that cuts damage output by 20%, has no counter, yet is a nicely balanced debuff. I think that the people in here whinning about it need to step back and take a deep breath.
You can cure intimidate with medic/doc stabilizers or jedi heal states...
Well MOST players can't do that like stun/dizzy/blind recovery, and even if you see some discrepancy here, I doubt that you will have a problem with an attack speed debuff that lowers firing rate by approx. 25%.
If you have a problem with that, I'd have to raise some questions about you.
HardwiredXMan wrote:
In SWG, the feeling is that no single profession should be better than a jedi. A Doc may be master and best at healing, but no level of doctoring he has or knowledge he hascan compare to the knowledge and use of theforce. THis goes for every single profession in the game. There's a reason why non-jedi are considered normal and jedi are considered nearly immortal. Can you put some canon references in there as proof? The movies had nothing at all about jedi healing and the EU trash that came out recently showed it to be worthy of mention only slightly.
There is a difference between jedi in SWG and jedi in the movies though. A SWG jedi can be a master of 2 and 1/2 of the 5 disciplines. A star wars jedi can be and were a master of all 5 disciplines. The concept of Master of the force does not mean a jedi was just a master sabers, master defender and just knowledgable in healing. A master was a true master of everything and 9 times out of 10 it either took another master jedi (or jedi knight on the verge of becoming a master) to kill a master jedi or the master jedi died from old age like yoda.Mastery of the force is an ambiguous term. They said outright that some people had skills that others didn't even masters. By the movies a master also was more of a title than an actual bearing of skill. Anakin expected the title of "master" when he became part of the council even though he was far from the skill of Mace, Yoda, or even Palpatine. The lore that GL has put out leans more to control of force in general and not in specific. Additionally, while you say a Jedi can be a master of everything you forget that regular people are capable of learn at the same or faster rate of multiple professions.
The thing is thatjedi are not masters in this game, but they think they are. So they feel they should have everything easier, better, quicker and stronger. When the FRS comes into play we'll see. Maybe after some more fight clubs we'll see a few uber l337 Jedi masters who can wipe through several groups with ease. Suuurre. A balanced MMO my right a** cheek.
The other side of the equation from a gaming standpoint is that those who have become jedi do not feel that allowing professions that can be mastered in 1, 2, 3 days to have stronger abilities than jedi is justified. When you spend two years or however long it took you to become a jedi, you don't want to end up with abilities that are weaker than some profession you could do in a fraction of the time. A lot of people want to become jedi for the power and total self-sufficiency that jedi have. Others think it's a status symbol and others think they are nothing special. The time it takes to finish your template should have no bearing on the amount of power you can bring to fore. With the visibility changes and kassyykk Jedi are now created in weeks not months. And once they finish their gring they stay at that power forever unless they decide to change their template. Once a regular player finishes their template any other experience they accumulate goes to waste. Once a player finishes their Jedi template they have no worries in the world. If a BH kills a finished template what does the Jedi lose? Pride is about it.
Personally I do not think I should have everything better than normal professions, however, I do think that for the investment that I put into getting jedi I should have some abilities that are comparable, some abilities that are stronger and some abilities that no non-jedi can have at all. In no way do I think that a jedi should have any ability that is hugely weaker than a non-jedi. The force is stronger than any normal human ability. See the above posts.
So when people think of jedi in SWG and all that goes along with being one, they want to feel like they are better off than everyone else because of the things I've posted. Afterall, what is the point of becoming a jedi if you are simply no better than a doc, a swordsman, a pistoleer or a scout. If that's the case, then the whole jedi system should be thrown out the windo and just make it a regular profession. Then there is no need to feel that jedi should be the best at everything and at the same time, the roleplayers can have it a bit easier and don't have to deal with the nerfs and restrictions jedi have that hurts the ability to roleplay certain things (like master and apprentice or a pure light or dark side jedi). Jedi complain about nerfs all of the time. Yet all high content PvE practically calls for MDefenders. PvP is dominated by Jedi why? I've heard Jedi complain about how they aren't good damage dealers yet out damage MBH/MRiflemen (the poor dealers usually have crap tuned stuff in their saber). I've watched Jedi consitently outheal me with a single tree of Jedi healing. With the hit to bacta shot we now only have 1 single target high powered heal. Roleplaying I can understand the cry about but thats for SOE to take care of.
So the thing to do instead of making post that CM's need to be nerfed. We should be in game doing focused testing on the situation. Document our findings, compare many situations, write up a nice post with information to back up your claims of whatever conclussion you come to. Then if there is an issue (globally, not just an issue with your own personal taste and playstyle), then and only then is the corret time to call for changes and nerfs. I agree completely. And so far alot of such things have been done and posted but spread out of this forum. Funny though as most are located under the "nerf CM" posts.
frankenstienmonster wrote:http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=1123362Tsang Tsung says: IT HAS NOW BEGUN!!!!!!!!
that is not a test. That is simply an opinion and rough observation given as fact.
There is a world of difference between opinon and actual facts. At least that poster could have done some sort of rough test to back up his opinion.
Ternque01 wrote:
Intimidate is a skill that cuts damage output by 20%, has no counter, yet is a nicely balanced debuff. I think that the people in here whinning about it need to step back and take a deep breath.
So what's the deal?
Brainplay wrote:
HardwiredXMan wrote:
In SWG, the feeling is that no single profession should be better than a jedi. A Doc may be master and best at healing, but no level of doctoring he has or knowledge he hascan compare to the knowledge and use of theforce. THis goes for every single profession in the game. There's a reason why non-jedi are considered normal and jedi are considered nearly immortal. Can you put some canon references in there as proof? The movies had nothing at all about jedi healing and the EU trash that came out recently showed it to be worthy of mention only slightly.
There is a difference between jedi in SWG and jedi in the movies though. A SWG jedi can be a master of 2 and 1/2 of the 5 disciplines. A star wars jedi can be and were a master of all 5 disciplines. The concept of Master of the force does not mean a jedi was just a master sabers, master defender and just knowledgable in healing. A master was a true master of everything and 9 times out of 10 it either took another master jedi (or jedi knight on the verge of becoming a master) to kill a master jedi or the master jedi died from old age like yoda.Mastery of the force is an ambiguous term. They said outright that some people had skills that others didn't even masters. By the movies a master also was more of a title than an actual bearing of skill. Anakin expected the title of "master" when he became part of the council even though he was far from the skill of Mace, Yoda, or even Palpatine. The lore that GL has put out leans more to control of force in general and not in specific. Additionally, while you say a Jedi can be a master of everything you forget that regular people are capable of learn at the same or faster rate of multiple professions.
The thing is thatjedi are not masters in this game, but they think they are. So they feel they should have everything easier, better, quicker and stronger. When the FRS comes into play we'll see. Maybe after some more fight clubs we'll see a few uber l337 Jedi masters who can wipe through several groups with ease. Suuurre. A balanced MMO my right a** cheek.
The other side of the equation from a gaming standpoint is that those who have become jedi do not feel that allowing professions that can be mastered in 1, 2, 3 days to have stronger abilities than jedi is justified. When you spend two years or however long it took you to become a jedi, you don't want to end up with abilities that are weaker than some profession you could do in a fraction of the time. A lot of people want to become jedi for the power and total self-sufficiency that jedi have. Others think it's a status symbol and others think they are nothing special. The time it takes to finish your template should have no bearing on the amount of power you can bring to fore. With the visibility changes and kassyykk Jedi are now created in weeks not months. And once they finish their gring they stay at that power forever unless they decide to change their template. Once a regular player finishes their template any other experience they accumulate goes to waste. Once a player finishes their Jedi template they have no worries in the world. If a BH kills a finished template what does the Jedi lose? Pride is about it.
Personally I do not think I should have everything better than normal professions, however, I do think that for the investment that I put into getting jedi I should have some abilities that are comparable, some abilities that are stronger and some abilities that no non-jedi can have at all. In no way do I think that a jedi should have any ability that is hugely weaker than a non-jedi. The force is stronger than any normal human ability. See the above posts.
So when people think of jedi in SWG and all that goes along with being one, they want to feel like they are better off than everyone else because of the things I've posted. Afterall, what is the point of becoming a jedi if you are simply no better than a doc, a swordsman, a pistoleer or a scout. If that's the case, then the whole jedi system should be thrown out the windo and just make it a regular profession. Then there is no need to feel that jedi should be the best at everything and at the same time, the roleplayers can have it a bit easier and don't have to deal with the nerfs and restrictions jedi have that hurts the ability to roleplay certain things (like master and apprentice or a pure light or dark side jedi). Jedi complain about nerfs all of the time. Yet all high content PvE practically calls for MDefenders. PvP is dominated by Jedi why? I've heard Jedi complain about how they aren't good damage dealers yet out damage MBH/MRiflemen (the poor dealers usually have crap tuned stuff in their saber). I've watched Jedi consitently outheal me with a single tree of Jedi healing. With the hit to bacta shot we now only have 1 single target high powered heal. Roleplaying I can understand the cry about but thats for SOE to take care of.
So the thing to do instead of making post that CM's need to be nerfed. We should be in game doing focused testing on the situation. Document our findings, compare many situations, write up a nice post with information to back up your claims of whatever conclussion you come to. Then if there is an issue (globally, not just an issue with your own personal taste and playstyle), then and only then is the corret time to call for changes and nerfs. I agree completely. And so far alot of such things have been done and posted but spread out of this forum. Funny though as most are located under the "nerf CM" posts.
I can see where you wanted to go about the justification of Jedi being 1.5x better than anyone else. And so far compared to each profession they have. What you fail to realize though is that Jedi were never immortal or even close to it. They had the force and great reflexes. Yet they died easily at Geonosis and all over when order 66 happened. The force they kept on prattling on about but it never materialized in any movie or novelization put out by Lucas. The EU was made up by writers other than him and are contradictory several times over about usage.
Sorry so late on the reply, been away from the game.
Anyway, I think you misunderstood my post. My post was simply what I think that most peoples perception of jedi is. I am not saying that jedi healing did or did not exist in any form in the movies.I am not saying that jedi are immortal. I am not saying that jedi were that much better than normal people.
What I was saying is that the idea of the force is that it supposedly makes a jedi a lot better at everything.It's a mystical power to most normal people and more often than not normal people see beings of greater power that they can't even imagine having as being nearly immortal or god like. It's people's general perception of jedi that my post was speaking about and I believe you took my post as saying that the examples I listed were the actual facts whether it be from the movies or EU.
I certainly do not believe most of the stuff I posted as being the truth regardless of what GL or EU says. It's about an idea and concept being planted in the minds of people and because the imagination is unlimited, people tend to go overboard in their belief of what and how powerful the force is.
The fact though is that there is evidence that jedi can be a lot better than any normal person. It's rare to achieve and those that did usually had the whole galaxy fearing them until someone had the balls to end their reign. The way in which jedi masters speak of the force and the great lentghs the dark side goes to in order to achieve greater power tells me that the true potential of the force has only been scratched lightly.
The reason I say this is because from my understanding, the force is unlimited and its not some mystical power. From everything I've heard, read or seen about the force, the indication to me is that life energy is the force that jedi draw upon. That means that every single person, being or living thing has the ability to manipulate the force. Some have a greater aptitude for tapping into it. Some are more thristy and dedicated than others. So I speak of the potential the force has and use some of the movies and historical knowledge (regardless of who made it up) as reference that there is evidence that a "TRUE" jedi master is not one who simply calls himself master for whatever reason and is not one who has only mastered parts of the force.
Also, when it comes to the movies, you have to broaden your mind a bit. You can't take movies literally for everything you see on screen because movies can only show you so much in so little time. When you think from the point of view where your looking at the star wars universe over the course of thousands of years and not 2 hours of movie watching, you realize that things happened in a much greater magnitude than any movie can ever allow us tosee, feel or understand.
What I'm saying is that in the movies order 66 seemed like all the jedi were killed of in a matter of a day and that it only took a few troopers or enemies to kill each one of them. it had to be that way to fit it all into one movie. You have to remember that the star wars univeres is vast and very large and that the battles we read about and see in the movies lasted decades, centuries or more. We just get it all in a 2 hour time frame which makes the 2 or 3 troopers you see kill a jedi seem like a jedi was nothing special or powerful at all.
The truth is that clone troopers and the armies that existed in star wars are extremely large. TAke a single jedi and put him up against one or two armies which they believe are on their side and you will see someone who is extremely vulnerable. Due to the fact that jedi were human like in nature, ability, thinking and such.....they are prone to make mistakes no matter what level mastery of the force they have.
So although I understand your comments, my post was not literal, it was simply an observation that I've made from reading many many thousands of post and also witnessing the attitudes of star wars fans at star wars events and other forums and chat rooms around the net. There is a general belief about anything that the majority of the population has about whatever and I was simply posting what I assume the general belief is.
So it all ties into how we play this game and what we expect this game to be. If it doesn't meet the standard that each and everyone of us have set in our mind from the knowledge we've acquired by whatever means, then that's where all the complaining comes from.
For example, of all your years of watching, reading, being a fan and loving star wars....there are certainthingsthat you've taken from your observations which shape your feelings and to what degree each concept in star wars should or could be. When the game falls short of that, then the natural response is to complain, as with anything in life.
It's the concepts, beliefs and general fans view of star wars that my post was about. I in no way am saying that what I posted is cannon or the way the GL intended for jedi and star wars to be. I hope you understand where I'm coming from this time.
Is the -40 Combat Speed debuff unbalanced??? I ran some tests, and here are the results. Read up.