Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Dev Feedback on medical DoTs...
Jeisyn wrote:
you know what i have a problem with?
When 20 250 skillpoint combat profession-oriented imperials attack a rebel base with maybe 10 250-skillpoint combat oriented professions - and 10 other half combat/half non-combat players, and the 2 combat medics on the rebel side wipe out the entire force with poison and disease. there was maybe 4 to 5 rebels DB'd, and ALL the imperials died within 2 mins.
THAT'S BALANCED?! i was fighting on the rebel side of this battle, last night, and it was absolutely disgusting and not fun at all.
combat medics do unhealable dmg, every 6 to 10 seconds (seems quicker than that to me..), with NO RESISTS of any kind, to MULTIPLE TARGETS. what balances this?
doctors can get within 5 meters of a non-moving poisoned player and apply a poison pack. well, how does he apply a poison pack to 10 players before they are all dead when they all have to find the doc, stop moving, wait for the poison pack..etc
there needs to be a combat medic area-poison heal, or SOMETHING, because a player with nothing but combat medic should NOT be able to tick any number of players down to 1 mind within 20 seconds - sorry.
yeah, i have 'uber' defenses- poison heeds none of them. i start off with 800 mind. i pop a fishak, 2 glazed glucose pate's, and a muon gold. that brings me to over 2000 mind. a combat medic can kill it with impunity (along with all the players on my side around me) within 20 seconds...
it just aint right - you have a bunch of imperials and rebels lined up, 20 or more, expecting a nice big battle - and it's over in under a minute and a half because one side had a combat medic or two and the doctors couldn't keep up with the poison. (face it, they CAN'T!).
you really feel this is okay?
It's not ok.... it's not possible to tick 2k mind ham down to 1 in 20 seconds. That would mean you get hit with a 1k poison pack... they don't get that high.
Vincentarasin wrote:
The problem here is everyone wants us to use aciton and health poisons and diseases why... So you can instant heal and kill us. You would nullify our poisons and our diseases would be useless. You people complaining are the same ones who loved UO for greater heal potions, great cures and all the other potions and everyone for the most part were the same template. BAH!
Balance.
dont you even think of pinning this back to UO balance, because i will state straight up for 5 years I carried one type of potion, Cures.
As for the CM corrospondent, I belive my point is made in the statement regarding something like,
"You want us to get a 75% dmg nerf on 70 dmg?"
If you do 70dmg, then thats fine, id have no trouble what so ever with that, even to an unhealable stat.
it isnt 70 though, its 600, 700, iv seen 800 ticks before.
800 tic? holy **edit** who threw that and what server was that on? i've NEVER seen a poison that has a base effec of more than about 350dmg, (hits for your 700 dmgfrom MCM-godly)and that is using adv comps and getting very lucky with experimentation. and also we are talking 900's in almost every category for your resourses. I've never heard of all of theresourses for the adv cm comps spawning with decent stats on any server, much less a single server
The lacky that flamed me on my claim of 92m being from september, No, 2 days ago, Through a wall (I was inside, he was outside)
Don't know how he or you managed this...92m is possible, but my point wasn't about the 92m, or even getting hit through a wall-it happens, it sucks, i know, move off of it, if someone does it you can report them for exploiting, or it could be a bug-noone does it intentionally. My point was that you claim that you got incapped. no poison can incap. period. they used to be able to, but in no way can they now, even the pre-nerf poisons are not exempt from this.
As to the lacky that flamed me, for "flaming" the doc corro, I didnt, the reply is under him surething, isnt directed at him. If you cant tell I clearly singled the CM corro out on my first post, you sir need to learn to read better.
Funny, 80% of the stuff you wrote sure seemed to be directed at what he was saying, wheather you ment it to be or not...you sure did a good job of making it look like you were targeting them without actually doing it.
The lacky that flamed me on "my poisons suck!" and I belive he had the same comment of "Doesnt spawn for months!" and the lean-to on "We have to survey our own stuff!" Your the exact people I make millions off.
"you're the exact ppl i make millions off of"- DUH! if we can get just about and of the CM specific required stuff we have to buy it, weather we like it or not. And the reason my poisons suck is because the stuff for Adv. CM comps DOES NOT SPAWN FOR MONTHS- and when it does it is hardly ever truly excellent stuff. I'm going to spend the next day or two looking for all the stuff needed for adv comps, and i'll be sure to tell you if i can find it.
If your poisons suck, I suggest learning to use expirimentation. If they still suck, I suggest getting better resoruces then the random grind-qualaty bazaar crap. If your stuff doesnt "spawn" for months, I suggest stocking up! Any, wise miner person (One that uses harvesters as primary income) probaly, checks flora's too, I do, and I can easily, EASILY get 30cpu for some of the cook ingred's if their 800x3+. The fact of the matter is, Your resources arnt hard to get, you just dont know how. If you wana talk about hard, talk to a WS man, then youll see your infernal whining is invalid.
You just don't get it- i've looked in the best resource vendors on my server, i've even gone serveying myself just to check if the stuff can be surveyed for on a given planet. nothing. I talk to guildmates, other ppl, specifically CM's who have been doing the prof longer than i have, still nothing. For the record, some of the hardest to find things are radioactive type 1 and eleton gas, followed by the other 7+ specific resources that are adv comp required. and have you ever tried looking into how much cash a CM has? most of us are nearly broke and couldn't afford 10-15cpu materials. chefs can afford those b/c they get tons of cash off of selling their stuff. and in response to your "i suggest stocking up!"-most of the ppl who do stock up are those "miner" ppl you keep talking about, and their stuff 1)isn't cheep and 2)is gone in a flash b/c the 1-2 CM's who do have financial backing buy them up FAST.
As for the rest of the replys/flames directed at my 2 posts, they will be ignored, I proved my point solid'y aginst the CM Corro, and he verified it by not being able to read clearly.
PS: To the person that said "You can hit mind too buddy!" HEY SKIPJACK FENCERS CANT TARGET MIND SOLELY, ITS A RANDOM!Hmmm, TKA, Rifle, Pistol(bh), 2h Swords, and maybe a carbine, even though they kill themself faster then us, OHh and, *Pause for effect* CMS, can hit mind directly.
Read it closer-that was a Rifleman who was told that, and compared to a cm with even the best stuff, all of those profs can hit mind faster and harder, and incap on top of it all.
PPS: Poison doesnt incap, no doubt, but with a disease it does! Whoops, another apply that takes less time then to blink.
That is a bug, and it does not work any more, i had a TKM friend of mine test it with another MCM. If it is still working you are first off posting in the wrong place...
Any of the other, cm's want to verify what i said? obviously he didn't believe me the first 5 times i said this...
Grozzer
DSB
Master Combat Medic
"Health, Action, or Mind, it's still your ass..."
-Adopted Combat Medic Motto
Jeisyn wrote:
i'll correct myself- the post i made at the top of page three was all "whining". however i do feel i have, in the midst of my 'whining', offered some viable solutions, such as removing your 4 second pause, slowing down the tick, giving some profession a ranged area poison-heal, reducing the potency of the DoT, adding defense vs poison to SOME tree in the game, adding 75% pvp dmg reduction to it, make crafting requirements a lot lower but then add some of these other elements/ideas... really, no one cares what the crafting requirement is -the effectiveness is just too unstoppable.
thx for trying to right yourself, and i have to say, you do have some valid pts
1) the resist to psn is on the low end now, perhaps it would make sense to give anyone who has medic in their temp a slight resist, which rises slowly as they get higher, so that master docswould have a +80 defand master CM's would have a +90 defense(w/o skill tapes, ect), reflecting their experience in the medical field, and specifically with psns. FYI to all out there who are thinking "+80-90 for cm's and docs? that's nothing!"- potency in combat meds usually runs around 90-100, depending on how intent the CM is to get it to stick, so a +90 defense would mean that there would be a pretty low chance of getting hit and having it stick, even with a +80 def. I would also suggest a cap holding the minimum modded pot at 10%, so that even if the CM makes a psn that has 90 pot has a chance of getting hit.
2) ranged psn heal has been discussed alot, and noone (save maybe the correspondents) has even the faintest clue where this will head.
3) another thing that i will re-suggest (i know it's out there...) is that the AoE psns and diseases become a lvl 90 minimum req CM use, so that noone who has just the combat medic support tree can use these (save teh very rare one who has bought tons of cm use skill tapes...), this would essentially move AoE stuff to master. This is of course disregarding how extreamely difficult it is to make a truely good AoE poison or disease that can effect a big enough area to hit a decent group, do a decent amount of damage, and still be thrown from a decent range.
4) 75% reduction becomes a very sore and worn-out issue among CM and non-CM alike. To avoid the massive arguments that i've already gotten myself cought up, i'll just present the main arguments that i have seen from both sides of various arguments, trying to keep it as balanced as possible(however you may want to take this with a grain of salt, as i am a CM myself, but i am trying to keep it balanced)
ANTI-CM (for those of you who couldn't tell by just reading them:smileywink
-"All other professions have a 75% reduction, why should the CM's be an exception?"
-"CM poisons and diseases are overpowered. a CM does damage even after their dead, and a significant amount of damage at that"
-"A CM with a good mind poison can take out all of my mind in about 30 sec, and then any lucky hit will kill me. How is that not overpowered?"
-"AoE poisons can kill an entire group without any effort. Again, how is this not overpowered?"
-"AoE poisons ruin PvP with thier power."
PRO-CM (again, for those of you who couldn't tell by just reading them:smileywink
-"If CM poisons get nerfed, the PvP damage will be so miniscule that noone will even bother worrying about them."
-"Why no PvP reduction? Why should there be when every other class does just as much if not more damage than CMs and CAN incapp, something that poisons cannot do?"
-"Every other prof. can do DoT( eg. bleeds, some even apply psn)AND has a weapon, why should we be nerfed just b/c our main weapon is DoT?"
-"CM poisons wouldn't wreck an entire group if they wern't standing so close together (also sometimesreads "used some real tactics"), and poisons that are AoE don't do near as much Dmg to each target as a single."
-"CM's don't have the power they are cracked up to be. They can't incapp and most of the time they don't get to DB the ppl that are their victims, wheather it be from poison or normal dmg."
Ok, now that that's over with, my only suggestion is that youmake your own, informed disision. i would suggest that you read a lot of forums, do lots of research and think before you "flame" (i know i don't like it on this or other forums, kinda like getting spam, y'know?). Often there are valid arguments on both sides of a "debate"(heated or not), and it is easy to get carried away. As far as the Poison "nerfing" is going, it looks like poisons are staying the way that they are now, despite the feelings of people one way or another, so my best suggestion to you and many other people is to just ignore it and move on, as the arguing appears to be going nowhere and nothing is changing at least for now. My personal response to the people who complain that poisons ruin PvP, you've read my suggestions on how AoE would maybe get fixed, and agree with me or not, the fact is that Poisons in PvP is one of those things that is, as far as i'm concerned, compleately opinionated. Personally i like the idea of Poisons in PvP, and I don't believe that they ruin the fun, but again, that is my opinion and everyone has their own. In my experience I have not found Poisons to be the end-all in PvP, mostly b/c in the large-scale battles i've been in people either die really fast or doctors on both sides have time in between waves to heal the ppl on either side. Also i've noticed that b/c poisons no longer incapp, it is much easier for a CM to get chased down by another class and DBd. in the end, IMO poisons have really not had a huge effect on the tide of a battle, and have also not shortened the battle by much, if any; the damage that is dealt would have been dealt shortly anyway.
Afunny thing happened to me in a raid on AH the other day, i came in, spotted a TKM meditating. "sweet, i'll just wreck this guy's mind pool so he can't use specials" i thought, and i threw a poison/disease (not sure which). Well, in a immediate strategic standpoint it was the best thing to do, and not having much more firepower i hit /burst and got out of there, only to find out shortly later that the TK was following me. Well, b/c I just ran, and b/c the guy prolly had group members to look after him, he could have easily medtated the poison away while i ran thinking myself so smug mind poisoning a TKM so they would be w/o specials. WELL, he came after me, and he came faster than i expected. I tried to mind psn him again once he got w/in my 50-60m range (yes not over 64 ppl), but he got to me and KDed me before i could start to run again. 5 seconds later my ham is gone and i've just been DB'd.
Just a little bit to humor you guys and show just how much tactics could have bested a battle. Sure he wouln't have gotten to DB, but what if i hadn't screwed up either? so to you Mr TK-who-ran-after-me-w/o-thinking-that-you-could-meditate-away-psn, I tip my hat to you and all others who refuse to use tactics.
Grozzer
DSB
Master Combat Medic
"Health, Action, or Mind, it's still your ass..."
-Adopted Combat Medic Motto
"Have i got the longest post yet?"
My server is uber I guess, the adv resources spawn good (950/950/950+) on multi planets.
Generally Tat, Lok, Talus have the same spawn spheres, 3 flat planets, you do the math.
If you havent figured out how to make money, then you need to look into "How To Play" guides.
I am noticing on virtually every server, except for mine, Dath outpost's are abandoned.
Until these are filled, bustling with activity, while grp's file out doing Enraged Rancors (36-40k missions, TKM/MF soloable) I dont really wana hear it. If you "dont have the points" to fight, go with a TKM and split it, im sure they will love having someone that can heal mind along (sure at wounds to your self, big whoop, take up some meditation, you DO have the points for that.)
Disease/Poison currently incaps as of 4 minutes ago on the Bria server.
The ONLY changes that need to be really made to poisons to even it out is first off fix the AoE LoS bug. My AoE poison should not be able to nail someone inside a base when I targeted someone on the outside, that part I think any CM here with common sense will agree to.
Second is that some profession needs to be given an area cure, either a master doc or master CM (yes it should require MASTER). If its a doc skill then make them be within 10m of the person they target with it and have the AoE effect go from there. If its a CM skill then go ahead and make it ranged, At that point NO ONE will have any right to **edit** and whine about poisons. Because if a profession has a AoE cure and you don't take them with you on your raids then your the dip**edit** at fault here for not planning ahead and thinking your to **edit** uber to have to group with people.
Diggner wrote:
JCatano wrote:
Battles are great when a CM is not in the mix (which is incredibly rare). Basically, chat isall about avoiding the enemy CM,or screaming at your CM to "Poison the heck out of them" if one or more is present. One AE attack turns the tide of battle in a huge way.
* CMs rarely miss in my personal experience
* CMs can toss poison 115 meters (another personal experience which led to being incapped) This did not involve lag, either. It was an on the fly test with a particular player which shall remain nameless for now.
*CMs can toss through walls(yes, a bug.....maybe, an exploit)
* I want my Bleed Shot tick back the way it was if CMs will always be able to turn a battle into atoss-and-run party. Maybe, throw in an AE Bleed Shot, too. We'll see how everyone enjoys that. Pistoleers need some love, anyway.
Sure you can have all that and you can ONLY have overcharge shot 2. You cant use a pistol to attack you have to learn a new fighting skill to attack oh and no defense mods then we can talk
Ouitdee wrote:
Diggner...
You can also add that they have to gahter their own resources and craft their own weapons.
Or buy from someone like me....
I have resources stocked up from ages (months ) ago.
If you really need it, you can find it.
Time to go coach some soccer.
Take it easy. Can't wait for the balancing act about to happen in the near future. No worries here.
Pahdbacca wrote:
KJFett wrote:
PVE and PVP damage is supposed to be different, why on earth would they feel that the CM was balanced in PVE and still balanced with a 300% increase in DMG in PVP? Why don't you ask them specifically about the lack of a 75% PVP reduction?
I am an advocate for the Combat Medics. As a matter of routine I report problems that are bugs but would hurt CM if they were fixed (range greater than 64m, Z-axis and AoE, LoS issues, etc.) A 75% Pvp reduction is not one of those issues. If anything, medical DoT damage should stay the same in PvP and multiplied 4 times in PvE.
Because I am an advocate for the CM community, if you can either
1) Convince the majority of CM that a 75% PvP reduction is the way to go
or
2) Convince myself that a 75% PvP reduction would help CMs
or
3) Convince either myself or the CM community that not having a 75% PvP reduction is an exploit
then I will go forth and ask the Dev's to re-examine PvP damage. Otherwise I will not. If CMs are sooo powerful in PvP, start grinding out Master Medic, get your combat exp for ranged support, the work your way to Master CM to get these "UBER" Dots. If you don't feel it's worth the effort, then quit bugging CMs about a 75% PvP reduction.
If you don't thing DoT damage is never brought up in the correspondent forums, then you are mistaken. I can't post everyting that goes on in those forums (which might be less than you think) and the devs are kinda busy to sit planted in front of the forums. I saw the chance to report back some feedback andI did so.
It's a very simple and valid argument why CMs shouldn't be able to do PvE-type damage in PvP. Aside from the fact that the other combat professions experience a 75% dmg reduction in PvP and CMs do not. Aside from the fact that one mind poison can do 400 damage per tick. And even aside from the fact that poisons can go through walls and floors.
There are at least three major other reasons that poison needs to be changed...
1) It almost never misses.There may be melee and ranged defenses, but there areno viable defenses agaist ranged AoE DoT attacks by CMs.
2)A CM's range is ridiculous. Over 64m for a poison? Will someone kindly explain to me why poison has greater range than a sniper? CMs can just sit back and spam their poisons, and they can hit while out of range ofeven the bestranged weapons.
3) Poison has no practical limit on how many players it can hit and seems to have a wide radius of effect. If what I am hearing on the forum is true, one CM can poison ten players.
A CM is a medic who's supposed to be able to HEAL on the field, in combat. Defensive. What they have turned into is offensive support troops. No need for changing CM DoT attacks for PvP?I suppose 1% item decay despite insurance was a good idea too? There is a reason that people complained profusely about insured item decay in PvP and it'sa great changethat it is being taken out. But only after many players got angry. Perhaps it would be wise to avoid making a mistake (the mistake in this case would be to leave the CM PvP DoTs as they are) rather than having to correct it afterward. The same principle applies to this Imperial Crackdown but that's on another thread.