Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Area Cures and Innocs What CMs Can Expect On Tuesday
Mmaxx wrote:
Basically the new CM strategy is throwyour lesserstuff and see if it ticks.
Also, throwing an initial poison may flush a doc when they do hit the heal, presenting your group with it's first target. People will have to keep their eyes open though since there won't be the obvious "Stop in place and give everyone a free light show" that combat medics provide.
We'll see how this plays out, but I'm not sure killing the doc will work much better than killing the combat medic. On base defense, we'll lkely see some serious doctor clone zerging.
Yep. All we can do is wait and see. . . there is a way to play any profession and overcome any hurdle. Geesh, I'm a pistoleer for chirst's sakeand I do OK. . .
Happymob wrote:
Mmaxx wrote:
Basically the new CM strategy is throwyour lesserstuff and see if it ticks.
Also, throwing an initial poison may flush a doc when they do hit the heal, presenting your group with it's first target. People will have to keep their eyes open though since there won't be the obvious "Stop in place and give everyone a free light show" that combat medics provide.
We'll see how this plays out, but I'm not sure killing the doc will work much better than killing the combat medic. On base defense, we'll lkely see some serious doctor clone zerging.
Swerve99 wrote:
Bamboozle wrote:
A doctor shouldn't be able to counter 10 CMs.
Why the heck should there be 10 CM's in a single group anyway? Wont it be much better to have a mixed bunch of professions in PvP anyway?
Its exactly with a mindset like urs that makes PvP and the GCW suck, and blah blah blah (etc. Sorry, I stopped reading here)
1) You can directly target any pool you want with 2 kinds of damage
2) Instead of hitting 100% of the time on an non-innoc'ed player, you're hitting for 95% of the time
3) Your damage hasn't been touched at all. You can still slap on an 1100 individual mind tick at will.
CMs didn't get a nerf, docs were just given the god card this time. Can't see why anyone wouldn't be a doc/rifleman or doc/cm at this point.
Tell me, who needs a pistoleer? A TK? A smuggler? No one needs them either, but people WANT them around because of what they can do for your group. People will still want combat medics around because of their ability to pre-occupy entire gobs of people at a time.
I sorta made the point about docs being overpowered already, you just reiterated it like I was wrong or something, dunno where that really came from.
Tell me, if I go out pvp'ing with a small group of about 3 people (say myself, a melee template and a rifle/tk/fencer), get our buffs and innocs, but happen to run into a cm about 45-50 minutes after looking for some pvp (meaning the innocs have worn off), does that mean we were foolish or unprepared? No - this group is extremely strong and formidable against anyone, but a combat medic could still hit us all in 1 shot and cause alot of panic and disarray.
I know 1100 isn't standard. I qualified my statement by saying individual target tick.. Meaning an individual poison, likely spider venom enhanced. Don't tell me they don't exist, because I've been hit by them and watched the 1100 mind tick. And here you are with a double standard... Sure it's ok for you to land it in one shot, but for a doctor to be able to cure it in one shot? Ohhhh I see... now its the doctors that are overpowered.
Every one of your counter arguments here revolved around having a doctor in the group. That's not always going to be the case, just like its not always the case that everyone has a combat medic in the group. That'd be like me saying (if I were strictly tk) that carbineers are overpowered because they can kite me indefinitely. Dur! It's your counter. There are going to be people in this game who can un-do what you do. That is balance. And here's where you're still lucky - one and only one profession has the counter to poisons and diseases. That means you are still a threat and still a force to be reckoned with.
Now I'm all for you guys getting more abilites (specifically some of the doc abilities like state cures), but for you to sit here and act like this wasn't needed is outright bs.
Message Edited by Ipseck on 08-09-2004 03:25 PM
Ipseck wrote:
I dunno what all the complaining is about.. Everyone still needs to have a doctor in order to counter the combat medics.
true
Yes docs are fairly overpowered now,
true
but you still have gobs of power in the right hands and against the right opponents
those who fail to innoculate, and have no doctor skills or doctor with them... very few pvp'ers
which is more than alot of us can say.
you are right, but only if you figure commandos and creature handlers as "a lot of us"
1) You can directly target any pool you want with 2 kinds of damage
but it can be healed 4 imes as fast as we can target it
2) Instead of hitting 100% of the time on an non-innoc'ed player, you're hitting for 95% of the time
only on the aforementioned un-prepared players, which will be a small, perhaps tiny subset
3) Your damage hasn't been touched at all. You can still slap on an 1100 individual mind tick at will.
that is a fanasy for me. my poisons generally hit 300 or so per tick. but even if i did have poisons that ticked for 1100 points every ten seconds, don't forget that the poisons can easily be healed before they tick in everyone within ~30m. all at once, lol. and the damage is mitigated by the higher level cures if they happened to fail to cure it completely.
CMs didn't get a nerf, docs were just given the god card this time. Can't see why anyone wouldn't be a doc/rifleman or doc/cm at this point.
docs got a boost that effectively negates our weapons. that = nerf for us. if i had a medicine that caused you to drop your sword, your swordfighting skills would be nerfed, even though it was my medicine. (assuming you are a swordfighter for the sake of example).
neutrineaux wrote:
again, an example. and as a master cm/master carbineer, i cannot touch a doc/fencer or defense stacker with doc skills. so even if there are 10 of us and one of him, he would still kill us.
and not impossible... i have been had by same in a group of mixed-skill pvp'ers vs a fencer/doc. of course, i was the only cm in the group, lol. not one of every 2-3 in our group, at least.
That is ur choice to be a CM in the first placethat is the problem here then. Dont blamefencer defences for that. You could have easily taken the Carbine tree in BH and/or bought accuracy and accuracy while moving SEA's and I guarantee you would at least give him a good fight andeven with 10 of ya against one dude? Come on man.NO one is that bad, nor is ANY one that unbeatable.
actually, the jedi can and do kill substancially larger groups. i realize that some players are working on their"templates" to kill jedi, but as i stated later, not gonna grind a template a week. seen lots of players die fighting jedi, and the killing power of jedi is clearly out of balance with the rest of the game. even if that is similar to what is seen in the movies, it is no fun for anyone else, and should be elimanated from the game. add to that the fact that you cannot simply choose to become a jedi, and pvp is suddenly inaccessable to many, if not a majority, of the players. so i predict after a brief initial resurgence, pvp will continue its slide down, because the entire system is flawed.
Are you a Jedi? Well I am, and I've already started my trials so I'm as good as a Knight. Those people die cuz they dont have the right 'tools' so to speak. You'd die as ur ranged. Would be diff if you were a TKA or a Fencer - believe you me. We are able to kill fast and hit very hard, but a simple INTIMIDATE is able to make us hit as hard as a chuba. Last time I heard, u get Intimidate1 at Novice Brawler.
maybe they think twice, but they seldom hesitate from what i have seen. generally it is hit/forcerun/return/repeat. if they are out gunned, they can generally get the heck out of dodge without much risk of death. so the circumstances are right pretty often, i am sure you will agree.
Well I aint gonna tell you and the world how to stop a Jedi here. I aint that dumb, but I'm now a Fencer / Riflemen / Master Brawler. I've beaten Knights 1 v 1 with the aid of Fire DOTs to be sure, but hey fact is - I won.
you have not seen me in action, then, lol. surely you don't mean to imply that cm's are invincible in 1v1 pvp? ok, well, i admit i suck at pvp, but i see other cm's dead, too, so they are not invincible. and if jedi are being killed by defense stackers, GOOD! but not enough jedi are being killed, and too few combatants have any hope in heck of taking one down.
Not gonna comment on ur skill here. When I was a Rifles/CM. I won much more than I lost dude. Prior to the patch? No class will ever make u invincible - not even Jedi. Its how you play the game dude. Fencers / Defence stackers / Riflemen / CM's they all die. I know bro, I've been all of em.
I know I did not. And the notion of 'temploiters' is silly too - dont all of you PvPers have more than one profession in ur template?
PLEASE!
If u wanna split hairs then well aint you using a profession that we, the non-cm's consider to be bugged and overpowered too? what the 'rules' dont apply to CM's? So in retrospect - aint you a 'temploiter' too?
exploit is as exploit does, sir. that is to say, you are taking advantage of the inherent imbalances in the game, as combat medics have been accused of, in many cases. nerfing all your abilities would remove that temptation to take advantage, in the same way nerfing poison and disease to the point they do not matter removes the reason for being a comat medic. does not sound so balanced when the nerf bat is pointed at you, eh?
It was pointed at me. I was a CM just two weeks ago remember? I chose to leave the profession after 6mths. Maybe Fencer / Rifles or whatever fotm will get nerfed soon. And? Move on. Exploit? Well like you just said urself, CM's are considered overpowered and so you, me and Frank who lives down the road are exploiters too.
no, it is more severe than that. as presently proposed, it effectively eliminates the only offensive capability of cm. and should we do this to all professions? make them so difficult that only a handful of players can hope to have any effect in combat? i would say that would not promote participation in the GCW or in the game overall. only the die-hard cm's who will stay one even if it is worthless will likely remain with this nerf. while i have been a cm from the start, i will not keep it if it does not contribute effectively.
Case in point. CM is one of the two elite 'Healer' classes in the game. From what you just said - ur intentions were never to heal from the outset. So now it becomes worthless to you because the offensive part of it has been taken away from you. What abt area heals, what abt healmind? Are they even on ur hotkeys?I bet u use the poison/disease button 10 times more. So essentially ur using a class that was designed for healing for offensive purposes? By your own admission - does this not make you an exploiter too?
maybe jtl will be good, lol.
It better be, or its WoW here I come! Tell ya what, lets bury our professional differences and meet up in WoW on the same side and in peace. SOE are looking at JTL as their one last payday before they semi-abandon thsi game I tell ya. If they cared they would have done the combat rebalnce first, what they are doing in giving JTL priority is to make sure they cash in before WoW is released.
Swerve
Starsider
Ipseck wrote:
No, I haven't ever been a CM, but that's not really the point.
it is a valid point, though
I know plenty of people who have been.
i am not a doctor, but i play one on tv!...
I help gather resources for them. And I have a great understanding of the game mechanics.
hmmm, doubts have arisen...
Tell me, who needs a pistoleer? A TK? A smuggler? No one needs them either, but people WANT them around because of what they can do for your group. People will still want combat medics around because of their ability to pre-occupy entire gobs of people at a time.
only the doc will be occupied, spamming area cure when a poison hits 1 time in 20.
I sorta made the point about docs being overpowered already, you just reiterated it like I was wrong or something, dunno where that really came from.
docs are highly valued, and more essential for combat prep than any other class. that is going to be more pronounced tomorrow.
Tell me, if I go out pvp'ing with a small group of about 3 people (say myself, a melee template and a rifle/tk/fencer), get our buffs and innocs, but happen to run into a cm about 45-50 minutes after looking for some pvp (meaning the innocs have worn off), does that mean we were foolish or unprepared?
actually, yes, if you keep going after your various buffs wear off without re-buffing, yes, you are foolish and unprepared.
No - this group is extremely strong and formidable against anyone, but a combat medic could still hit us all in 1 shot and cause alot of panic and disarray.
or a jedi. or someone with the melee or ranged equivalent of the "1100" poison you reference. spooky, but it ain't gonna happen. you will re-innoculate. just like you re-buff or eat more food.
I know 1100 isn't standard.
by a long shot
I qualified my statement by saying individual target tick.. Meaning an individual poison, likely spider venom enhanced. Don't tell me they don't exist,
so do legendary cdef pistols, but they are not a big issue, either.
because I've been hit by them and watched the 1100 mind tick. And here you are with a double standard... Sure it's ok for you to land it in one shot, but for a doctor to be able to cure it in one shot?
docs heal it for multiple targets a 30m circle -- bigger than the area of effect of the weapon -- at four times the speed at which we can even throw it for 5 - 24% hits...
Ohhhh I see... now its the doctors that are overpowered.
...so, yep, overpowered.
Every one of your counter arguments here revolved around having a doctor in the group.
which most serious pvp groups have. not just that, many serious pvp templates include doc, and more will now. it makes you, and now your group, cm-proof
That's not always going to be the case, just like its not always the case that everyone has a combat medic in the group.
cm's will be fewer now, docs will be more.
That'd be like me saying (if I were strictly tk) that carbineers are overpowered because they can kite me indefinitely. Dur! It's your counter.
the carbine attack does not negate your attack. they can only kite you if you stay in los of them. you simply have to be closer than they do to hit, and you can already hit from an unrealistic distance for unarmed combat. the area heals negate our attack altogether, for all intents and purposes. if carbineers got a "and shot" that made your hits count for zero damage, then you have a point... oh, let's see, nope, no hand shot...
There are going to be people in this game who can un-do what you do. That is balance.
not if they completely undo it 100% efficeintly, as is the case here. balance is good. this ain't it.
And here's where you're still lucky - one and only one profession has the counter to poisons and diseases. That means you are still a threat and still a force to be reckoned with.
not.
but get your shots! you need to protection, and the doc needs the cash!
Now I'm all for you guys getting more abilites (specifically some of the doc abilities like state cures),
thanks for thinking of us!
but for you to sit here and act like this wasn't needed is outright bs.
you have no shortage of self-assurance, but a massive deficit of understanding.
Message Edited by Ipseck on 08-09-2004 03:25 PM
Ipseck wrote:
you suffer from teh same problem as the other poster - a very limited view of the situation. You're focusing on your one drawback instead of your many many strengths that don't revolve around a doctor being there. Not everyone is a doctor and not everyone will always have a doctor in their group. ONE profession has a counter to your profession now. You call it a nerf, I call it balance.
then you, sir, lack substancial insight into the situation.
The game shouldn't revolve around combat medics as it does now, and it does not revolve around doctors as you people seem to think it does. You'd swear they were the only other profession by the way you talk.
I'll just finish up by saying
1) A serious pvp group does not neccessarily always have a doctor, and doesn't need one to be successfull.
2) A serious pvp group does not neccessarily always have a combat medic, and doesn't need one to be successfull. There's alot more that goes on in the game, and your profession, besides poisons and diseases.
3) Yes the combat medic population will drop, because of the talentless hack cm/rifle fotm folks who sit there and spam attacks at an unhealable pool will ditch it because it's not so seriously overpowered anymore. This is a good thing.
4) I don't think you're looking at the big picture here, and are only concerned about your ability to toss an unavoidable poison, that doesn't get mitigated in any form whatsoever, and has the ability to land on a pool that no one, but you can heal. Excuse me if I don't think you're being objective here.
Yes, they do. If they leave themselves vulnerable to any single profession, they aren't serious in my book. It would be the equivalent of getting a raid together and then not buffing.
Ipseck wrote:
1) A serious pvp group does not neccessarily always have a doctor, and doesn't need one to be successfull.