Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Area Cures and Innocs What CMs Can Expect On Tuesday
rhaspede wrote:
Sorry dude, you're wrong again. If 10 cms apply 10 poisons to 10 people, 1 doc can cure all 10 poisons on all 10 people with one shot of his/her area cure.BEFORE any damage from the poison is taken.
On a seperate note, thanks for the info Tex. I think this is waaay overboard. The ability to cure everyone in a 27m radius without having to stop moving? That's too much. The only good thing about these cures is the med use. It will discourage dabbling because people will have to either be master doc to use the really good stuff, or just bring a master doc with them. Still, those "A" lvl packs are pretty powerful already, and like yall said, they're only going to get better.
I've been a master cm since about month 4 of release. These nerfs are really starting to get old...
/sigh
What are you talking about? Area cures follow the same rules as single application cures in the amount of poison they cure. At MCM, poison effectivenessX2=poison tick. At MD, cure effectivenessX2=amount of tick that is cured.
The best area cure packs that vortexala made on TC were 450 effectiveness. That means they will cure anything up to a 900 tick or 450 effectiveness poison with one application. If the poison ticks for 901, it will require 2 applications to cure. The first application will reduce its tick to 1 (901-900) and the second application will remove that 1 tick. If 10 MCMs stack 600 tick poisons on one person, the combined tick on that person will be 6000, which will require 7 applications of 450 effectiveness area cure to completely cure. The new area cures arent magical packs that cure all poison in one application, they follow the rules stated above as single application poison cures do. If they did not follow these rules, they wouldn't have an effectiveness rating.
The point is combat medic is the only profession that requires a specific profession to counter it. The damage dealt by any other profession drops to zero when the person using that profession is killed (I'm ignoring DoT weapons, torso shot, commando burns and bleeds because they do not do enough damage to require immediate attention). A person with any sort of combat skill can kill any other person with combat skill thus dropping their dps to 0. The exception is a person with combat medic, who is quite capable of disabling a large force of other players while not actively in combat with them. Combat medic is the only profession that is given this ability, and a powerful ability it is.
Happymob wrote:
Yes, they do. If they leave themselves vulnerable to any single profession, they aren't serious in my book. It would be the equivalent of getting a raid together and then not buffing.
Ipseck wrote:
1) A serious pvp group does not neccessarily always have a doctor, and doesn't need one to be successfull.
Happymob wrote:Yes, they do. If they leave themselves vulnerable to any single profession, they aren't serious in my book. It would be the equivalent of getting a raid together and then not buffing.
Ipseck wrote:1) A serious pvp group does not neccessarily always have a doctor, and doesn't need one to be successfull.
One star me all you want. Do you pvp? I go out all the time in smallish groups (1-5) without doctors or combat medics and am quite effective. If you don't call that 'serious' that's fine, that's your own opinion, but alot of other people (including jedi) don't stand a chance to those small, fast groups.
Your comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.. Comparing not buffing to not having a single profession in your group? That's not even apples and organges, that's apples and bowling balls. How about this - Its like not having a combat medic in your group. why? because riflemen, swordsmen and tk's can target the mind, and cm's are the only ones who can heal mind. That sound a little closer to a real comparison? See how silly that sounds now? You sure as hell can deal without a combat medic, just as well as you can deal without a doctor. Yes its an advantage to have either or both along, but its not neccessary.
Its attitudes like this that are ruining pvp across servers. People who won't go out pvp'ing unless they have massive groups of 10+ with docs and multiple combat medics. Groups who are so overpowering to simple opposition that its a waste of time, they just roll in until someone else assembles a larger group with more combat medics. Instead of being so worried about winning, why not just go out to fight for your cause. Protect coronet or theed when you see overt imps/rebels. Who cares what you do or don't have.
Keep on with the closed-mindedness. It just limits your own play. Personally I don't need to wait around for a cm or doc to pvp. I'm not that scared of anyone, or take this game serious enough to be that worried about dying. Its just a game. You don't NEED anyone but yourself to be successfull.
Your comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.. Comparing not buffing to not having a single profession in your group? That's not even apples and organges, that's apples and bowling balls. How about this - Its like not having a combat medic in your group. why? because riflemen, swordsmen and tk's can target the mind, and cm's are the only ones who can heal mind. That sound a little closer to a real comparison? See how silly that sounds now? You sure as hell can deal without a combat medic, just as well as you can deal without a doctor. Yes its an advantage to have either or both along, but its not neccessary.
Its attitudes like this that are ruining pvp across servers. People who won't go out pvp'ing unless they have massive groups of 10+ with docs and multiple combat medics. Groups who are so overpowering to simple opposition that its a waste of time, they just roll in until someone else assembles a larger group with more combat medics. Instead of being so worried about winning, why not just go out to fight for your cause. Protect coronet or theed when you see overt imps/rebels. Who cares what you do or don't have.
Keep on with the closed-mindedness. It just limits your own play. Personally I don't need to wait around for a cm or doc to pvp. I'm not that scared of anyone, or take this game serious enough to be that worried about dying. Its just a game. You don't NEED anyone but yourself to be successfull.
neutrineaux wrote:
not a flame, but i think the 10 cm vs one doc was an exaggeration to make a point, not intended as an example of how you should or should not set up your pvp group. 10 cm's vs a doc/fencer would now (after this unbalance) get "pwned" -- and i assume you know what i mean.
I thank ya for not flaming. /salute for that.
It was meant as an exaggeration to be sure, but we all know this is not the case. This is the reality that 1 in every 2-3 pvpers are CM's in some way shape or form. And 10 CM's dont mean that they wont have another combat profession in their template mixed in anyhow. This analogy of one Doc/Fencer being able to to pwn them all is absurb - not unless ALL 10 CM'shave Master ID or Mechant in their PvP template and rely solely on CM to kill.
the jedi and template stackers will now be "the one and only profession that stays relatively untouched and unchallenged in PvP."hopefully, the jedi will be nerfed severely next, as they are killing pvp. followed by the temploiters. hehe, if you disagree with this, wait for a cople of weeks after the cm nerf, and check the fora again. i would wager you will be able to find this sentiment more and more often, lol.
The Jedi are not able to slaughter a fair sized group bud. Not unless the circumstances are right. Ask any Jedi, regardless of rank to attack a group of 2-3 meele chars at the same time. I guarantee you they will think twice. Knights are already being defeated solo by defence stackers - I dont see a CM / XXX char having that problem at the moment. I know I did not. And the notion of 'temploiters' is silly too - dont all of you PvPers have more than one profession in ur template? The only diff is they focus on defence and defensive mods whereas CM / XXX type chars focus on dealing out the most dmg to a single pool for maximum effectiveness. This is a life style choice - not an 'exploit' as the term 'temploiter' hints at.
unless a balanced and sweeping revision is done that addresses all the imbalances simultaneously (which seems as difficult to imagine as it is unlikely to occur), or unless small changes are done, tried, and tweaked, we will just see wild swings in who is the dominant pvp profession or template. making large changes is usually not a good way to achieve balance. this is a large change. and it is clearly unbalancing.
I agree with ALL proffessions needing to be balanced at the same time. However at this point in time CM's do need to be trimmed down in numbers to give PvP as a WHOLE a reprieve from the 5 second combat that currently constitutes PvP. This change would leave only the most dedicated CM's who are excellent at their trade - andnotthe current Rent-a-Saddam profession that it currently is. Most of these CM's out there dont even have a ranged stim pack in their inventories - just purchased packs. Just an FYI - I was one of the dedicated ones who collected and purchased the most uber resources (over a LONG period of time) and had my own +22 CM Experimentation suit.
make no mistake, if it is not cm/rifleman or whatever your cm/xxx nightmare is, it will be some other "template." making large changes in one profession is not a smart idea. but then, the i.q. of those making the decisions has been repeatedly questioned.
True
for some of us, whether cm or other classes, that essentially spells the end of pvp for us. i for one am not going to grind up to a new "temploit" every other week to try to stay ahead of the latest ridiculous nerf. neither are the folks i play with regularly. we are just trying to figure out if there is enough content exclusive of pvp to warrant the effort.
While not theprof balance we all need and want,professions are hardly being nerfed without warning and every other week as you are suggesting.This aint the first time I have changed my template, nor will it be the last, but I understand your frustration. Its up to you and ur friends to decide what course of action to takeof course, but I strongly urge you to stay and fight on. Believe you me PvP will improve after this- after all its not like we are entering a stage whereby we wont knnow what the best templates are. Fencer and Riflemen are stillstrong as ever and it just depends if you wannago on thetemplate to counter Jedi or be effective in regular PvP. We are just returning to PvP the way we ALL know it to be - with the sole exception that 9 outta 10 guys in our groups will die in the first 5-10s ofengagement cuz Rent-A-Saddam is chucking a lil blue ball at ya.
Swerve99 wrote:
neutrineaux wrote:
not a flame, but i think the 10 cm vs one doc was an exaggeration to make a point, not intended as an example of how you should or should not set up your pvp group. 10 cm's vs a doc/fencer would now (after this unbalance) get "pwned" -- and i assume you know what i mean.
I thank ya for not flaming. /salute for that.
It was meant as an exaggeration to be sure, but we all know this is not the case. This is the reality that 1 in every 2-3 pvpers are CM's in some way shape or form. And 10 CM's dont mean that they wont have another combat profession in their template mixed in anyhow. This analogy of one Doc/Fencer being able to to pwn them all is absurb - not unless ALL 10 CM'shave Master ID or Mechant in their PvP template and rely solely on CM to kill.
again, an example. and as a master cm/master carbineer, i cannot touch a doc/fencer or defense stacker with doc skills. so even if there are 10 of us and one of him, he would still kill us.
and not impossible... i have been had by same in a group of mixed-skill pvp'ers vs a fencer/doc. of course, i was the only cm in the group, lol. not one of every 2-3 in our group, at least.
the jedi and template stackers will now be "the one and only profession that stays relatively untouched and unchallenged in PvP."hopefully, the jedi will be nerfed severely next, as they are killing pvp. followed by the temploiters. hehe, if you disagree with this, wait for a cople of weeks after the cm nerf, and check the fora again. i would wager you will be able to find this sentiment more and more often, lol.
The Jedi are not able to slaughter a fair sized group bud.
actually, the jedi can and do kill substancially larger groups. i realize that some players are working on their"templates" to kill jedi, but as i stated later, not gonna grind a template a week. seen lots of players die fighting jedi, and the killing power of jedi is clearly out of balance with the rest of the game. even if that is similar to what is seen in the movies, it is no fun for anyone else, and should be elimanated from the game. add to that the fact that you cannot simply choose to become a jedi, and pvp is suddenly inaccessable to many, if not a majority, of the players. so i predict after a brief initial resurgence, pvp will continue its slide down, because the entire system is flawed.
Not unless the circumstances are right. Ask any Jedi, regardless of rank to attack a group of 2-3 meele chars at the same time. I guarantee you they will think twice.
maybe they think twice, but they seldom hesitate from what i have seen. generally it is hit/forcerun/return/repeat. if they are out gunned, they can generally get the heck out of dodge without much risk of death. so the circumstances are right pretty often, i am sure you will agree.
Knights are already being defeated solo by defence stackers - I dont see a CM / XXX char having that problem at the moment.
you have not seen me in action, then, lol. surely you don't mean to imply that cm's are invincible in 1v1 pvp? ok, well, i admit i suck at pvp, but i see other cm's dead, too, so they are not invincible. and if jedi are being killed by defense stackers, GOOD! but not enough jedi are being killed, and too few combatants have any hope in heck of taking one down.
I know I did not. And the notion of 'temploiters' is silly too - dont all of you PvPers have more than one profession in ur template?
PLEASE!
The only diff is they focus on defence and defensive mods whereas CM / XXX type chars focus on dealing out the most dmg to a single pool for maximum effectiveness.
exactly! the most important point! it is a choice of effective abilities. completely removing the effectiveness of poison/disease is not a balanced approach to the "problem," but is potentially the death of another profession. if this continues, we will only have a couple of templates left = boring-er. before you answer that cm's were "too powerful" or "ruining pvp," please note that many if not most of us have ASKED FOR balance. but this is not balance. and temploiters "ruin pvp" for those who do not approach game play that way. THEY ARE NOT BALANCED. JEDI ARE NOT BALANCED. YOU ARE NEXT! * crosses fingers* at least i hope so. otherwise, it is a lost cause. but if you are nerfed out of usefulness, one more lost profession...
This is a life style choice - not an 'exploit' as the term 'temploiter' hints at.
exploit is as exploit does, sir. that is to say, you are taking advantage of the inherent imbalances in the game, as combat medics have been accused of, in many cases. nerfing all your abilities would remove that temptation to take advantage, in the same way nerfing poison and disease to the point they do not matter removes the reason for being a comat medic. does not sound so balanced when the nerf bat is pointed at you, eh?
unless a balanced and sweeping revision is done that addresses all the imbalances simultaneously (which seems as difficult to imagine as it is unlikely to occur), or unless small changes are done, tried, and tweaked, we will just see wild swings in who is the dominant pvp profession or template. making large changes is usually not a good way to achieve balance. this is a large change. and it is clearly unbalancing.
I agree with ALL proffessions needing to be balanced at the same time. However at this point in time CM's do need to be trimmed down in numbers to give PvP as a WHOLE a reprieve from the 5 second combat that currently constitutes PvP.
i agree with that
This change would leave only the most dedicated CM's who are excellent at their trade - andnotthe current Rent-a-Saddam profession that it currently is. Most of these CM's out there dont even have a ranged stim pack in their inventories - just purchased packs. Just an FYI - I was one of the dedicated ones who collected and purchased the most uber resources (over a LONG period of time) and had my own +22 CM Experimentation suit.
no, it is more severe than that. as presently proposed, it effectively eliminates the only offensive capability of cm. and should we do this to all professions? make them so difficult that only a handful of players can hope to have any effect in combat? i would say that would not promote participation in the GCW or in the game overall. only the die-hard cm's who will stay one even if it is worthless will likely remain with this nerf. while i have been a cm from the start, i will not keep it if it does not contribute effectively.
make no mistake, if it is not cm/rifleman or whatever your cm/xxx nightmare is, it will be some other "template." making large changes in one profession is not a smart idea. but then, the i.q. of those making the decisions has been repeatedly questioned.
True
for some of us, whether cm or other classes, that essentially spells the end of pvp for us. i for one am not going to grind up to a new "temploit" every other week to try to stay ahead of the latest ridiculous nerf. neither are the folks i play with regularly. we are just trying to figure out if there is enough content exclusive of pvp to warrant the effort.
While not theprof balance we all need and want,professions are hardly being nerfed without warning and every other week as you are suggesting.
i am not suggesting that someone is nerfed daily. but hear that whistle in the distance? hear that train a comin? rifleman, fencer, defense stacker, jedi... who will be next? not will someone be next, but who? nerfs are hitting fast and furious last several days...
This aint the first time I have changed my template, nor will it be the last, but I understand your frustration.
yep, playing up to a master and grinding up to a template are two radically different things. not gonna grind the fotm, whether it is daily, weekly, or quarterly. not any fun for me. i know some folks don't mind, or even like it, but some of us do not.
Its up to you and ur friends to decide what course of action to takeof course, but I strongly urge you to stay and fight on.
thanks. sincerely, it is nice that some folks, like me, would really like people to stay.
Believe you me PvP will improve after this-
not for those of us who do not want to grind, and particularly not for combat medics, lol
after all its not like we are entering a stage whereby we wont knnow what the best templates are. Fencer and Riflemen are stillstrong as ever and it just depends if you wannago on thetemplate to counter Jedi or be effective in regular PvP. We are just returning to PvP the way we ALL know it to be - with the sole exception that 9 outta 10 guys in our groups will die in the first 5-10s ofengagement cuz Rent-A-Saddam is chucking a lil blue ball at ya.
no, it will be at the hands of jedi or the stacker instead. many of us will still die quickly, and those who remain cm's will have precious little to contribute to the fight. bummer.
it will be the same, only different perps. and that still does not justify a heavy handed, unbalanced, inapproproate nerf when appropriate measures would have done a better job. i am going to wait several days before i start to un-train cm. but if these changes stand, cm will not be worth the points.and i have not yet thought of an alternate prof that interests me. even an artisan prof will be more of a pain with the macro nerfs.
maybe jtl will be good, lol.
Swerve
Starsider
Message Edited by neutrineaux on 08-09-2004 04:13 PM
Ipseck wrote:
you suffer from teh same problem as the other poster - a very limited view of the situation. You're focusing on your one drawback instead of your many many strengths that don't revolve around a doctor being there. Not everyone is a doctor and not everyone will always have a doctor in their group. ONE profession has a counter to your profession now. You call it a nerf, I call it balance.
Actually one profession has the ability to give ALL other professions an effective counter to our profession now. Hopefully the tweaks will be good enough so we'll actually have a chance to land our stuff if experimented right. The real question is will the time affect other forms of healing as well? Can we finally remove havla from the game?
However, what you call balance is massively skewed. This isn't a fix, its a cover up for what should have been a HAM issure and revamp. Anything that can be buffed as good as a doctor can currently buff andhealed creates mitigation to even the most powerful poisons. If they fixed the HAM then poisons wouldn't be an issue.
Defense stackers rejoice, now all youhave to worry about are jedi....
Dang I wish they'd hurry and fix this game.
Blackmoore wrote:Thanks for the info Vortexela!Wow! So much for point blank area for that range for the cures. I hope there is some rollback on this. These cures and inocs are friggin crazy! Like we even have a chance in PVP. At least PVE we will still be effective.Message Edited by Blackmoore on 08-08-2004 02:06 PM
You guys have a chance at PVP. But i doubt combat medic was ever meant to solo groups of 20. And believe me, with rifleman 0/0/0/4 ive done it. Poison everyone, run around buildings drinking brandy and canape. and then whip out a spraystick and spam headshot2. It works.
Now, combat medics are what they were supposed to be, a support class. They can help a battle, definately if not with poisons and diseases then with heals. Combat medics still can poison and disease and if the army is spread it it would do a big chunk of damage to someone who strays from their doc.
It's better now, now a combat medic is mainly a support class and not someone who can constantly pop out of a cloning center , toss a poison and disease, die. Come out and db everyone. And totally screw up a raid on their own.
THERE WILL BE NO MORE OF THAT! WOOOO!
P.S if you want to be good at PvP. Get a ranged combat class that actually uses a gun and stack up your defences. Don't get a medic class.
Now, combat medics are what they were supposed to be, a support class. They can help a battle, definately if not with poisons and diseases then with heals. Combat medics still can poison and disease and if the army is spread it it would do a big chunk of damage to someone who strays from their doc.
It's better now, now a combat medic is mainly a support class and not someone who can constantly pop out of a cloning center , toss a poison and disease, die. Come out and db everyone. And totally screw up a raid on their own.
THERE WILL BE NO MORE OF THAT! WOOOO!
P.S if you want to be good at PvP. Get a ranged combat class that actually uses a gun and stack up your defences. Don't get a medic class.
Master Rifleman
Teras Kasi Master
vortexala wrote:
Right...current cures are 1 for 1...sure they are.
That's why when Ariven hit me with SEVERAL poisons I cleared them with ONE cure.
Try reading this thread for some information.
I think maybe you're the one who needs to test things.
several fairly nice poisons hitting different stats.
It sure is going to be interesting tonight when I log on and start paying with this stuff in live... sigh..