Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM's and CU: Some Info
Blixtev wrote:
Medical professions if they are associated with weapons are typically associated with a small sidearm so it doesnt impede their healing duties.
QFE
Same reason smugglers are stuck with Pistols I take it?
Spetc wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Medical professions if they are associated with weapons are typically associated with a small sidearm so it doesnt impede their healing duties.
QFE
Same reason smugglers are stuck with Pistols I take it?
Actually, you can blame Han Solo for why smugglers are stuck with Pistols.......
My cousin the Corpsman used a pistol, while the troopies used M-16's. Corpsman had more than enough weight in their medical gear without lugging around a rifle and 5 30rd mags.
My father, the Vietnam helicopter pilot, however, was issued a .38 revolver. In time, he had a full combat kit including M-16, mags and grenades he got through trading with the groundies because, as he put it "if I get shot down, I'm taking as many of them with me as I can before I go..."
Its all about balance I'm guessing. CM abilities are strong enough that the biggest they wanted to give you guys was a pistol...
Spetc wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Medical professions if they are associated with weapons are typically associated with a small sidearm so it doesnt impede their healing duties.
QFE
Same reason smugglers are stuck with Pistols I take it?
Actually, yes.
Smuggling is a very covert operation. The easily concealed weapon would be benificial to that profession. You wouldnt want to draw attention to yourself by lugging about a rifle.
(now before anyone starts, yes, i know people say smuggler is "broke". There are cool things on the horizon, and anyway, thats not the issue here...)
Throughout world wars, the army medic profession regularly used a pistol sidearm, and not a heavier weapon. I suppose because, medics needed to move quickly, and you dont want to burden them with a large weapon, when they should be support healing. Give a medic a rifle, and they're now not paying attention to their own troops, they're aiming, loading, and firing a two handed weapon.
Watch "Band of Brothers", to see how medics in the field worked. Many times, they braved life and limb to get to their fellow teammate. Yes, they can pick up a rifle or carbine, but thats not what they'll be trained for.
I can see why CM's have an easier time being a pistol user than other weapons. Thats not to say they CANT use and train if a carbine or rifle, just that in the balance of things, they wont be as good in that as a hand pistol.
We can still be anything we want, we just cant be great in everything. That was the original vision of the proffesions when SWG started, and it's finally coming back to that now. From what i've seen, CM's are gonna be cool by themselves. You're gonna want one in every team!
"Well, now i can't solo!"... Then perhaps CM isn't the main profession you're looking for. I always thought the CM line was always support. I have seem people pick up a few lines of CM just to augment their already impressive combat skills with poisons. I have seem very very few CM's do area heals in general. Looks like CM's will be going back to that original vision. I for one like this. You want to be a complete solo-er, take up rifleman/carbine/commando...youjust wont be able to be the best CM as well...youget the gist...
Anywho, enough of the rambling! I love the CU so far. And remember...NO ONE HAS PLAYED A CU CM YET. So, all posts on the subject are pure speculation...including mine!
Baz Pseudopod
Master CM
Weasel7479 wrote:
You guys do know you can use your ranged specials, like say from carbineer with that pistol, right ?
All that general ranged accuary and general speed you get, it stacks so...that pistol will bealmostas good as if you had pistoleer with it. you dont have to go up pistoleer to be good with it. go Rifle, carbineer dont matter, you can still use that pistol just as effectively.
I think alot of people are judgeing the CU by live and you just cant do that. It is a completely different system, you cant compare it or specials or weapons or anything to it from live. It is that different. Stop listening to rumors and go over to TC-5 and try it out and find out first hand what the changes are. Chances are it will open your eyes.
Dont just go by TC-5 all flustered loooking at the skill trees saying this special is out of place or that special is out of place. The specials are not the same. Dont judge the book by the cover, go in and actually read and look over the changes then make a educated choice.
Thanks for the feedback Weasel. However, a few points:
I have been constantly testing things on TC-5 (honestly, aside from this pistols issue, 'magical' med-use issue,and the obvious mob unbalance everything I've seen so far I've really liked). I also have been looking over the Skill Sheet as I assume all of us are guilty of doing.
Now, I admit I dont remember if the Pistols line in Marksman had any General mods but I will check when TC-5 comes back online (although I understand what you say about these General mods, from for example rifles, stacking to be able to be used for pistols). However,as far as being almost as good as a Pistolier, I think you know you are misguided by stating such a thing. Pistoliers get Pistol mods which I think would mean alot more than someone without(eg. rifleman), even if someone without (eg. rifleman)doeshave General mods (although this is something that I guess remains to be tested to proved conclusively....you havent tested have you? Seeing you made the comment that someone with General mods will be almost as good.)
The main problem I have is that we are being forced to take Pistols, seemingly just so we can use a pistol in the master box. CM, in my personal opinion, is a ranged support profession. The weapon associated with it, should be based upon the training the user has. Some people have posted differing opinions on what a CM in the army has as a weapon. From my perspective, it looks like different people have taken training in different weapons. Therefore, it is the training that determines the weapon ability, not being forced to train in one type of weapon. If necessary, I will do research on military medical units throughout the world (as I have zero specialist knowledge in this area in RL).
Another BIG concern I have with this Alliance Disruptor (pistol at master) is, WHERE do we get it? Is it only available to rebels as it is an 'Alliance' Disruptor? I hope that this is not a misguided attempt to make this into rare loot. This will mean that only the richest and/or largest of guilds will be able to access this weapon, therefore rendering any possible benefits from it or pistolsobsolete for the rest of us, and basically making us waste 14 SP!
MaraJade12 wrote:
vortexala wrote:Chemical Warfare includes: Infect, Deuterium Toss, Improved Neurotoxin, Improved Infect, ADvanced Neurotoxin, Improved Deuterium Toss
Ok, Deuterium Toss. Devs, this makes no sense. Deuterium is hydrogen with one neutron, making it twice as heavy as hydrogen (meaning it's at ~2 instead of ~1) It's a stable isotope, it's not radioactive. It can combined with oxygen to form "heavy water", which tastes just like water only has a slightly higher melting point and boiling point and other chemical properties are slightly different than normal water. There is "heavy water" in all of the water on Earth normally. Tossing deuterium is not a weapon, you'd have to put it in a ballon to throw it and that's not going to hurt anyone. Maybe a nuclear physicist could make a bomb out of it, but that's definately out of the realm of CM.
vortexala wrote:CM's get certed for Battle Armour Biological Warfare includes: Electrolyte Drain, Thyroid Rupture(Ouch, My Thyroid!), Improved Electrolyte Drain, Paralyze(must be the mezz/daze), Improved Thyroid Rupture(My God, you've imrpoved greatly your ability to rupture thyroids!)
Again Devs, what are you going for with Thyroid Rupture and how would this actually be implemented in a weapon? Your thyroid is a gland located below your hyoid bone and your larynx, it secretes things, it doesn't take things up so it can't rupture by overfilling nor can it rupture in the way that the eardrum does. It also doesn't pump things under pressure like a blood vessel, so you can't increase the pressure to make it rupture. If you're going to rupture it, you'll have to rupture the individual cells in it by changing their osmolarity to one higher than that of the rest of the body so that it takes in water to lower its osmolarity. IF it starts at a sufficiently higher osmolarity than the rest of the body, it may take in enough water to rupture the cells making it up. To do this though, you would need to somehow get ions (Na+, Ca2+, K+, Cl- are the ones normally in the human body) or something else into the cells to increase the osmolarity, without getting these things in the rest of the body and then wait as the body tries to equalize the osmolarity. BUT the body can always pump the ions out of the cells to counteract the water entering in. It'd be much easier to just poison the person or just overload their entire body with potassium to put them into cardiac arrest. Plus, who's to say all species have thyroids and that it's not just a human thing?
pWnd
Atobusarragra wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Not just "a pistol at Master". More like a "fantastic DPS unique pistol" at Master. Since no one but master CMs can use it, you definitely garner some respect using one of these in battle. As to why a pistol? Medical professions if they are associated with weapons are typically associated with a small sidearm so it doesnt impede their healing duties.
vortexala wrote:
I think the reasoning behind the Pistols line is because, well, we get a pistol at Master.
Aside from that, I don't really know though.
And I agree, as things stand now, Ranged Support would be a more beneficial pre-requisite for CM's to have as it will allow more templating then simply Pistoler and other Pistol Based profs.
This is BS, Blixtev! You are forcing us to take Pistols! CM is a Ranged Support profession, which means any ranged weapon should be appropriate. Remove the damn Alliance Disruptor (does this even preclude Imperials from using it?) and put CM back to Ranged Support!
You say this is a 'unique' pistol. Does this mean it is lootable only from the highest level mobs that take 6 groups to take down and will br so rare that they sell for millions on the trade servers and no one can actually afford. Therefore, making the damn thing obsolete anyway, and therefore NOT garnering stuff all on the battle field!
I am a Master Pistoleer...and we would be happy to take your gun. I think it looks pretty sweet, but then I am biased to pistols
Pseudopd wrote:
Throughout world wars, the army medic profession regularly used a pistol sidearm, and not a heavier weapon. I suppose because, medics needed to move quickly, and you dont want to burden them with a large weapon, when they should be support healing. Give a medic a rifle, and they're now not paying attention to their own troops, they're aiming, loading, and firing a two handed weapon. Back in the old days you had "role" specific troops. The military gave up that thinking and multi-trains everyone in as many combat abilities as possible according to complexity. Field corpsmen (combat medics) are full fledged riflemen. The only act as medics when the situation arrives. Just like the heavy weapon ammo their field supplies are spread out amongst the platoon while they retain their medicinal supplies for obvious reasons. Anyone without a rifle in a firefight is deadweight. Firefights do not guarantee friendly casualties.
Watch "Band of Brothers", to see how medics in the field worked. Many times, they braved life and limb to get to their fellow teammate. Yes, they can pick up a rifle or carbine, but thats not what they'll be trained for. You're talking ancient history there bud. Back then a "medic" would also be wearing a nice white armband with a red cross on it identifying him as a medic. Times have changed and that same armband is almost a deathwarrant.
I can see why CM's have an easier time being a pistol user than other weapons. Thats not to say they CANT use and train if a carbine or rifle, just that in the balance of things, they wont be as good in that as a hand pistol. Pistols are worthless in a firefight. Old school medics had them as last resort in case some enemy combatant went a little squirley on them. They recieved MINIMAL pistol training and mostly furthered their training on their own and many times out of their own wallet. Back then the conventions protecting medics provided a blanket of protection that just doesn't happen today.
Weasel7479 wrote:
That is why I said almost as good, and no I've not tested. Only the alpha testers and devs have, as of yet the blue froggys are disabled for most options lkeelite professions.
I was going by the numbers and the fact that the general mods stack now. If I did my math correctly and didnt miss anything or accidently added a extra +5 hehe.
I added smuggler because some people had previous mentioned smuggler. Looking over the stats basicly a CM will, if they take a ranged profession be "almost" as good as a pistoleer. a CM will have the same pistol accuarcy as a master pistoleer. The difference would seem to be in the general ranged mods and a CM that is not a pistoleer would of course not have access to the same specials. It seems odd to me atleast that a CM needs the pistol tree, a SL does not need the pistol tree and they also get a pistol cert at master. I would think it makes more sense to require a CM to have the ranged support tree as this would give the CM general ranged mods to use on thier master cert weapon.
Thanks for the figures Weasel, I havnet been able to log back on TC-5 since last post. Certainly interesting to see. Anyway, I think perhaps we were considering slightly different things. I was referring to CM+Ranged profession when I said Pistolier would be much better. For example, CM/Rfile or CM/Carbine vs. CM/Pistol would mean CM/Pistol has a significant advantage. Regardless, it was good to see numbers, thanks again.
As for the SL having a pistol in the master box and not having to take the Pistol line in Marksman, well I think that merely adds more weight to the argument that CM should be Ranged Support. Why should they, but not us. It makes no sense at all. I have to admit, I havnet looked at many professions outside my own yet, and certainly didnt notice this anomaly. I will check some of the other professions as soon as I get the chance.
MaraJade12 wrote:
vortexala wrote:
Chemical Warfare includes: Infect, Deuterium Toss, Improved Neurotoxin, Improved Infect, ADvanced Neurotoxin, Improved Deuterium Toss
Ok, Deuterium Toss. Devs, this makes no sense. Deuterium is hydrogen with one neutron, making it twice as heavy as hydrogen (meaning it's at ~2 instead of ~1) It's a stable isotope, it's not radioactive. It can combined with oxygen to form "heavy water", which tastes just like water only has a slightly higher melting point and boiling point and other chemical properties are slightly different than normal water. There is "heavy water" in all of the water on Earth normally. Tossing deuterium is not a weapon, you'd have to put it in a ballon to throw it and that's not going to hurt anyone. Maybe a nuclear physicist could make a bomb out of it, but that's definately out of the realm of CM.
vortexala wrote:
CM's get certed for Battle Armour
Biological Warfare includes: Electrolyte Drain, Thyroid Rupture(Ouch, My Thyroid!), Improved Electrolyte Drain, Paralyze(must be the mezz/daze), Improved Thyroid Rupture(My God, you've imrpoved greatly your ability to rupture thyroids!)
Again Devs, what are you going for with Thyroid Rupture and how would this actually be implemented in a weapon? Your thyroid is a gland located below your hyoid bone and your larynx, it secretes things, it doesn't take things up so it can't rupture by overfilling nor can it rupture in the way that the eardrum does. It also doesn't pump things under pressure like a blood vessel, so you can't increase the pressure to make it rupture. If you're going to rupture it, you'll have to rupture the individual cells in it by changing their osmolarity to one higher than that of the rest of the body so that it takes in water to lower its osmolarity. IF it starts at a sufficiently higher osmolarity than the rest of the body, it may take in enough water to rupture the cells making it up. To do this though, you would need to somehow get ions (Na+, Ca2+, K+, Cl- are the ones normally in the human body) or something else into the cells to increase the osmolarity, without getting these things in the rest of the body and then wait as the body tries to equalize the osmolarity. BUT the body can always pump the ions out of the cells to counteract the water entering in. It'd be much easier to just poison the person or just overload their entire body with potassium to put them into cardiac arrest. Plus, who's to say all species have thyroids and that it's not just a human thing?
MaraJade, bloody brilliant
Blixtev wrote:
Not just "a pistol at Master". More like a "fantastic DPS unique pistol" at Master. Since no one but master CMs can use it, you definitely garner some respect using one of these in battle. As to why a pistol? Medical professions if they are associated with weapons are typically associated with a small sidearm so it doesnt impede their healing duties.
vortexala wrote:
I think the reasoning behind the Pistols line is because, well, we get a pistol at Master.
Aside from that, I don't really know though.
And I agree, as things stand now, Ranged Support would be a more beneficial pre-requisite for CM's to have as it will allow more templating then simply Pistoler and other Pistol Based profs.
Blixtev,
I understand your point on realism. Medics are typically shown with a small sidearm so that they can be free to provide medical support.
Yet, I do not like that this change pigeon-holes Combat Medics into becoming a Pistoleer (atleast a Pistoleer of sorts).
What I argue is this - This is the equivalent of giving any profession as specific weapon at Master.
For example - One could argue that a Master Riflemen should receive a very nice pistol at the Master level. It is realistic that a Riflemen would need a small fire-arm to protect him or herself whenever an enemy came close. The problem with this, though, lies in that it does not give the Riflemen the choice of how he or she would like to deal with an enemy that comes in close. Maybe the Riflemen wants to use a knife? a carbine? maybe even a polearm when they are backed into a corner.
Combat Medics should have the same flexibility as any of the ranged or melee professions. All of these professions are allowed to decide how they want to deal with enemies in various situations. As it stands, Combat Medics are not allowed to make this decision for themselves.
If a Combat Medic does decide to take matters into his or her own hands, they will waste 14 to 29 skill points in mastering another ranged or melee profession. They are punished for being creative. Moreover, the certification of a very nice pistol at the master Combat Medic level is wasted. If one chooses another fighting path than pistols, the pistol Combat Medics receive is next to wasted as it will be used very little if ever.
I applaud the developers attention to realism. I just can't justify it in this case, though. With the enormous amount of skill points that Combat Medics are investing into their profession as compared to the other combat professions, they should have flexibility in their choice of weapons.
I hope the developers will reconsider this matter or find an appropriate solution. (Wouldn't it be cool if there were THREE seperate ranged weapons that were certified at Master? We would have some flexibility then *NUDGE* *NUDGE*)
Ninjapizzaboy