Combat Medic Archive

Oh good lord...

Well to Silver and Galaxies...I am a Master Combat Medic, and I'll happily raise my hand to say that both Kavedawg and Zarlor have both my respect and support. They have both made me happy wtih their efforts, and even yes I do support this change.

It's a nerf to a singular particular playing style: suicide bombing solo PvP. Whether or not raid busting is viable for us is not the issue, we can. The question continues to be whehter or not this is to be our vision, and whether this is power that we should have. I have yet to see substantive, constructive arguments as to why this should be our vision. I simply haven't and would like to.

What I have seen is a number of anecdotal examples in which a solo CM was taken down by someone else because they didn't incap. We cannot debate the value of this argument or examples until we have resolved that this is to be part of the vision of our class. I have a hard time believing that we should stand as equals in solo PvP...though without a doubt we are now.

So to the both of you, and any others that find this potential change to be horrendous...let's debate vision. Let's debate why we should be PvP soloists, and leave out the issue that we have....that ESRB warning when you start up the game each time is a disclaimer warning every player and every CM that tradition is not an excuse for the future.

At the same time, if you're going to have a debate about it, and try to actually convince people of your positions rather than ...well whatever it is you're doing now...please answer me the following:

1. How do you balance AOE poison/disease without this?


2. How do you justifyincap given that our range is beyond any other profession?


3. How do you justifyincap given our accuracy is craftable to 100% and unmodified by stance (gated in some cases), movement, range or opponents armor (only moderatly by loot attachments)?

Are you ready to take nerfs to range and accuracy instead?

To the both of you and others who find this change horrendous, I have documented on this forum the methods used to create 72m and 86m poisons. If poisons can incap, I can and any other MCM can (glaaxy resources depending) poison, run and tactically never be in risk of reprisal. Someone answer to me who hates this change why we should have this?

Our skill points and resource requirements are not a justification to have range and accuracy beyond any other class. We must have a weakness. I think this one does it.

I am open to have my mind changed and join the ranks of those opposing this. But currently I support it, and I am willing to listen to any constructive arguments any can provide.

Calling changes or people stupid is not one of them. Show the argument to be stupid through debate, not accusation.

Jacore MD/MCM, Tempest

p.s. The notion that we should promote pro-power partisians of class purity to be our correspondents is ludicrous. That we should seek with our voice to powermonger in the short run, rather than seek balance in the long-run...that we should desire to put ourselves above the game, rather than seek our place within it...there is no other singular, strongerargument for why the people who made this game and those who love it and wish to play it for a long time should ignore your remarks.

Well put Jacore... I agree with you on many things, including the respect and thanks to both Zarlor and Kavedowg for the hard work they have done for us.

I do, however think that the cap should be removed, even though I do not regularly PvP. I started another thread asking that we discuss and vote there.

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Silverchair wrote:

Kavedawg you are the absolute worst person to have as our correspondant.

First of all you have no clue what it's like to PVP the combat medic, your a bloody CH for christs sake? How the bloody hell do you qualify to tell a combat medic/doctor that they no longer need the Doctor skills? You dont go CM/DR for the crafting bonus alone, its for the CURE POISON/DISEASE, BUFFS, HUGE HEAL PACKS, much larger heals. I can't believe this is actually happening to the combat medic.

The CM correspondant is supposed to support and represent the combat medic - PERIOD. Not the combat medic/CH/marksman - who finds every reason to justify the total

How can you find any way to see something good in this patch? I dont want to hear how your alter ego CH skills allow you to solo this mission on Dant or that your creature does all the work because your poisons don't tick for much, Go BE A BLOODY CH CORRESPONDANT!

I can understand your not comepletely getting this whole bad patch/update concept, because with your skills its impossible for you to PvP well, if you do at all. I have 5 accounts Kavedawg, SOE can get their money from someone else after this patch, I'll be cancelling all of them if it's as bad as it's supposed to be for the combat medic.

Nice Job Kavedawg, your making alot of people happy, too bad none of them ar combat medics...

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I try all the different templates I can when I am on test, I have surrendered CH, Marksman, Doctor, artisan and brawler to get a better feel of the different combos. I just like my current Templet because it serves me the best for the TC enviroment. As for my poisons not ticking much, that does raise the flag on how much our resources can differ from server to server. My comment on doctor no longer being a requirement for a CM, your right. I do tend to think more like a PvE player than a PVP player, there is not a whole lot of PvP on TC, that will be changing in the future as soon as the mount/city thing dies down a little.

now, about that comment on your quitting if the patch is as bad as you have heard. The only issue I see that you all have is with the +1 stop for poisons, was there something else that you have heard that is causing you to quit the game?

Kave, Zarlor,

Your work is both valued and appricated. Thanks.

Voss

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TheVeginator wrote:
I fail to see how anyone could regard the 1hp poison as anything other than the biggest nerf any class has ever received in SWG.

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Hyperbole gets you nowhere. It's big from a philosophical problem and symptomatic of several things wrong with this game but single biggest nerf? Come on.

Definately in the top 3 or 5 though.

Think of it this way, what other class has been nerfed so badly that they cant kill ANYTHING with their primary attack? CH's got nerfed sure, but they can still kill people with their pets. ATST's got nerfed but they can still kill people and are really only vulnerable to commandos. Really who got nerfed so that their sole class specific weapon was unable to kill enemies?

Please show me how to target the mind pool with my cdef and novice marksman.

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Zarlor wrote:
My contention to that would be that if Poison is your sole weapon, you're not playing your class. You had to take Novice Marksman and Ranged Weapon Support for a reason. You got a gun, use it.

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That is like telling a Master Pistoleer to not use the pistol to kill (the skill he has worked hardest on to advance in), but instead pick up the CDEF rifle or carbine up and kill with it, after all he had to train Marksman right so use your skills!!!

There is nothing reasonable about making a class thatspends tons of points getting to the point of using effective poisons, pick up a CDEF weapon to finish off their enemies. Its like making me as a Master Doc use a stimpack A to heal in Combat, after all I have that skill you gotta use it! Can't you see that you are making our attack non-lethal and that is the absolute worst thing you can do to a combat class. Try making a Commando finish off his targets with unarmed skill, after all he had to get it. You keep saying this and that about Ranged Weapons Support --- but it does not give us weapons and was not intended to be used as our primary attack. Poison is our primary attack, most dmging attack and should be able to incap our enemies.

And as for alternatives, I have offered a couple in my thread specificly about this issue.

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Zarlor wrote:
My contention to that would be that if Poison is your sole weapon, you're not playing your class. You had to take Novice Marksman and Ranged Weapon Support for a reason. You got a gun, use it.

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Good point. And right now it seems like if you really want to get anything done, everyone needs to use a pet. But the other part of SWG would be that it is a skills based game. THe best options will always be to diversify to some extent to get the best skills to get the job done.

BTW, what are some of you guys doing using a CDEF? You've got Novice Marksman. I fyou want to use a pistol pick up a D17 or a DH18 Carbine. You get those certifications for a reason.

Now I do agree that maybe something shoudl be done to cover the fact aht you have to wait for the random hit to take out the pool you need. But at least your opponent will have a REALLY hard time doing anything to you without enough pool points to actually do any specials or even just to shoot in many cases. I also think that if this is implimented it should probably be implimented acros the board to all DoTs, just to clarify my position here.

Attacks deliever damage to multiple pools, you just don't see it much. If the mind pool STAYS at 1 (doesn't regenerate) you should be able to incap off the mind pool with a 1 shot anything (save for leg shots or body shots, I'm not sure if those go into multiple pools).

As for the change it does have it's pros and cons.

Zarlor and KaveDawg, just so you both know I'm not necessarily angry at you personally I rarely post on the forums (as noticed by my low post count) unless it's something I really feel strongly about. And that's not usually on 'good' things. Lack of posts or time of registration or even time spent in a profession does NOT make someone thoughts on a matter irrelevant, merely from a different perspective. I've been a CM/Doc for almost two months now. I started playing the game within about a week of it's release. That's my perspective Everyone would do well to remember this point and stop engaging in needless 'elitism'.

Now, beyond my actual reasons for disliking this change (some of which i've posted earlier) something one or the other of you said really caught my attention to what might be the biggest problem of all with this:

The comment about how "this is an easy-fix for the XXX problem". Of course that's not a direct quote and my memory is failing me as to which problem it was addressing (and I don't feel like looking backward for it, just got home from work)

This troubles me. It seems that this change is being implemented solely as a band-aid for a different problem. It is NOT being done strictly for itself as a needed change. The problem with quick or easy fixes is that all they are doing is masking a current problem without solving it. And they tend to create many new problems of their own. No real justification has been giving for preventing poison from incapping save as a way to solve other problems (i.e. lengthy 40+minute repeat incaps, inability to loot etc...). Perhaps it would make much more sense to solve these problems on their own terms rather than slap an 'easy-fix' on them to satisfy whiners in other professions.

I have NEVER EVER seen a post from anyone at all (though I haven't read every one of course) saying they think Combat Medics should not be allowed to incap with poison. Only that they dislike lengthy incaps, area poison working out of LOS and just plain being beat by a Combat Medic.

As others have said, the rationale that "you've got novice marksman, you must use it" is at it's core, ludicrous. I don't need to repeat that it's unrealistic to expect a Master Commando to HAVE to finish battles with his fists. The point of a Skill Tree is that you move to higher levels of strength and power, tending to leave behind the now weak skills from your infancy. This change causes a regression in a profession, forcing it to resort to it's weakest beginning skills in hopes of winning battles.

Of course, someone could say "You don't have to be CM/Doc, pick up Pistols or Carbines". Isn't the point of the skill system that I should be able to play the character I want? With this change I really must drop Doctor and pick up another combat profession if I wish to be competetive. Go on and on about how it's only 1 point if you must, but as i've stated before one point is the difference between victory and defeat. You do realize that even with the best Novice Marksman weapon possible ANY elite combat profession has speed modifiers that virtually Guarantee they will get their last shot off before I have any chance to hit that last point?

One last thing, part of the strategy of playing a Combat Medic is that, knowing they will be incapped once they see that DOT hit them, most players start going helter skelter trying to figure out what to do. They are afraid. It absolutely pulls many out of their shell of confidence and makes them realize they better do something, and fast. With this change they will know not to fear the Combat Medic. After all, all they need to do is finish us off before we can get in a 'last shot'. This change will cost us the most valuable ability we have, that to inspire fear in an opponent. And chemical weapons SHOULD inpire fear, it's why they are so despised in real world.

Yes, some aspects of CM are slightly overpowered or out-and-out buggy. And those problems should be fixed on their own, not with some stopgap but with real effort. How hard can it really be to write a line of code that tells the game if a player is incapped to wipe away poison DOT's? Boom, biggest problem solved. I believe this change will move us from slightly overpowered to quite underpowered, but that's just how I feel about it. Time will tell

Thanks for reading this lengthy post. I hope it addressed some of the issues that may not have been considered before now.