Combat Medic Archive

vortexala wrote:

Lack of Doctors is actually a consequence of other issues and factors. It's something most of us said would happen if things didn't change...unfortunately we were right.

Now you've got me curious. I think I should go do some reading on the Doc forum next.

That reason alone is why I wouldn't be averse to other means and avenues of 'healing' being made more available to the general populace. Either by use ofchef created foodstuffs, or(now thatI think about it), Smuggler spices. Illegal meds that anyone can use but have serious side-effects. Makes sense that a smuggler could get you a 'fix' for what ails you, even if there was a downside to it.But I just can't justify removal of the doctor professions ability without due cause.

Not too different from something I posted in another topic - perhaps something you can jab in your arm that will cure the poison/disease on you but effectively gives you a Muon or Pixie 'debuff' to that pool for a few minutes. Certianly not something you can use like a stim or whatever in battle... because it'd get you pretty instantly incapped. But something that can save you from getting black-barred when you're kilometers from a friendly doc.

Being caught unprepared means you suffer the consquences. When aplayer is caught unprepared and alone(1vs1), there should be a sense of danger. That player may have a chance to survive the encounter(especially if caught by a lone CM) but there is also a high probability that the Player will die. When a group is caught unprepared by a Group that is prepared, then the scale should be tipped in the favor of those who came to battle ready to go. That's just a fact of the GCW. Granted, the after effects may be a bit debilitating when a CM is involved, but it's one of the repercussions of choosing a faction.

Yes, this is true. A reprecussion of choosing a faction. But getting jumped in the wild and having your unbuffed party of six(five at least somewhere in elite combat professions, three of those masters, one a doc in training (no cure at that point) and one an MCM)plus three pets CL 10, 16 and 25 by a prepared party of three... And then have them run down to the city you just cloned at to call you coward loser trash (in much more interresting words) while standing there camping your clone center... One of them was an MCM who actually did NOT use his poison on us in that encounter. If he'd tossed disease on us, they could've basically ignored our attacks (even our rifleman for a time as they had hits of blue milk at the ready) while the disease ticked away... or run away from us and come back as we'd have never had a chance to fell them and we couldn't cure ourselves.

Well, like I said. At least he wasn't using disease in that encounter. But he did mind poison/disease to a Master Rifleman/Master Doc in my PA... Several times, though he didn't triple-incap. And it was the fifth timetwo of them had hit us in two weeks when I had been around- specifically targetting ourPA. And in previouslarge-scale attempts totake them down (six on two, eight on two because no docs are around) they DID use diseases, including mind diseases... Like anything, a few bad examples can really bring down a profession.

It's just amazing to me that I see so many posts about this, especially posts about doctors saying they can't cure some of this stuff on the first or even second try, even when they're not fighting at all. Are Docs EVEN a counter for CMs at that point? When the infection rate is 95% but the cure chance is 50/50? (I don't know if those are the numbers, just the feel I get from what I see written here.)

But ah well... most of us agree that the combat system as a whole is rather screwed up. And who knows if it'll EVER get fixed. (I hear "A full combat rebalance would piss off all the min-maxing PvP kiddies and SOE doesn't want to lose THEIR $15/month" frequently and I'm starting to think it might be right.)

-V

look the way i see it is this is a no win situation.if they nerfed cm then what would be good for cm (in pvp we know why you all took it).i know just for saying that i will get slaged off because people will still deny this.there are people out there that do it for the heal yeh i know but anyway.those pvp players that are cm will whine they nerfed it.mind you if they dont nerf it the rest of you will moan.face it your just gonna have to deal with this.put it this way what ever combo u have theres always something better.

Let the the valid points why im wrong begin(slaging off begin) hehe

ps: just keep it real

Menoitus wrote: :

Defensive meds are a Doctors arena.
Offensive meds are A CM arena.

Message Edited by Menoetius on 04-16-2004 04:12 PM

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Veldcath wrote:

It's just amazing to me that I see so many posts about this, especially posts about doctors saying they can't cure some of this stuff on the first or even second try, even when they're not fighting at all. Are Docs EVEN a counter for CMs at that point? When the infection rate is 95% but the cure chance is 50/50? (I don't know if those are the numbers, just the feel I get from what I see written here.)

The thing with the Doctor cures is that, until recently, they couldn't see the power of their cure. They could experiment all they wanted to but they never really knew how strong the cure was. So a lot of them went the route of experimenting on charges instead. Now that they can see the power rating on their cure meds, they should be able to make them better or at least on par with CM offensive meds. The generic resource requirements means that they will have a much easier time making a powerful cure then a CM has of making a powerful poison/disease.

But ah well... most of us agree that the combat system as a whole is rather screwed up. And who knows if it'll EVER get fixed. (I hear "A full combat rebalance would piss off all the min-maxing PvP kiddies and SOE doesn't want to lose THEIR $15/month" frequently and I'm starting to think it might be right.)

-V

I think they will, eventually, get around to the Combat Revamp. They've got to get the game into a reasonable state before they can implement the Space Expansion. Otherwise they'll just be adding to the imbalance even further. It may take time, but it'll get there eventually.

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I know something needs to be done, but whatever happens we may end up being stuck with well after the revamp. That's one of my major concerns, a double-nerf if you will.

And to Pad:

What you're not understanding here is the fact that in order to use a cure pack, even at a lesser degree, you would still need the /cure ability. So those abilities would need to be removed from Doctor and made universal. In their place would need to be put a cert system of some kind. It would be a partial revamp of that profession. All because someone doesn't want to seek a Doctor for a cure.

Creating a seperate item usable by anyone but made by chefs and/or smugglers would be the way to go.

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Veldcath wrote:

Ack. Sorry! After the non-post post, I went back and did a refresh to make sure my post didn't go through and it didn't show up even then, so I rewrote... and now there's two. Wish I could delete my own posts in this system...

Sorry.

-V

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Hehe, it did the same thing to me Lithium has been acting up lately. Next time it does that, hit back and then simply click on the forum. You'll see that your post did indeed go through that way

vortexala wrote:

Veld, (thanks for being constructive, btw )

I try... Don't want to be a nerf-whiner. I really want to see the game get better (if for no other reason thanI want to feel less bad about paying $15/month... )

Is the issue here the poison or the disease? You seem to say that being hit with a Poison is fine, but that Disease(being Black-Barred specifically) is the issue.

Yes, for me, the issue is Disease. Like I said, poison is annoying, but disease is completely dehabilitating. Poison can make someone easy to incap. Disease can make someone unable to rejoin the battle.

I'll be honest here(and this is just My PERSONAL Opinion, not something I'm campaigning for), I think mind disease needs to be looked at and/or lessened. Simply due to the fact that Mind Wounds can only be healed by the Entertainment Professions. All other wounds can easily be healed by a Doctor in-battle, but Mind/Focus/Willpower require a player to visit a Cantina. The only fair thing to do would be to somehow lessen the effect of mind disease.

Well, if they can ever push the supposed rework of how damage is applied (are they still talking Pub 8?), that might help alleviate the problem some too. The mind hits are definitely the worst because you ARE put out for however long it takes you to heal it back in the cantina... But if you don't have a master medicor a novice+ doctor sitting in your clone center, Health and Action diseases can be just as devestating.

As for the rest of the stats, I say it's fair game. Disease takes a long, long time to black-bar a player, dependent upon their BF. 40 seconds per tick can be an eternity.On a buffed player, the wounds stop at +1 to their normal stats. Meaning that if a Player has aBase of800 and a buff of 2K, they'll onlytake 799 wounds while the remainder of their stats(the buff) remains unscathed.A quickdisease cure followed by a high-end woundpack, and the effects of the disease are erased. Disease(and poison)is also an attack that can be completely negated by one shot from a Doc before anywounding(damage)occurs.

Assuming, of course, that you have a Doc immediately available. I have never really enjoyed PvP in SWG (gimme a good flightsim and I'll take you on...) for various reasons, but until recently I have always lept to the defense of my city when called. Which means I only see PvP from the perspective of "the person rushing home to try to try to keep them from destroying the hard-earned turrets" or, more recently, from the perspective of "a group of friends out doing faction missions for fun just got jumped out of the blue and slaughtered by a group of full-buff, completely prepared players." Basically, I always see PvP from the "not prepared, no Doc anywhere nearby" side. If I get hit with any decent player-crafted disease, I'll be crisped black to total ineffectiveness unless I happen to be hunting while buffed. But like I said, Docs are rarely around where I am, so getting buffed for gurk-hunting or faction-hunting is pretty rare too.

I would, personally, not be averse to a foodstuffs(made with medical components) that would allow a player to self-apply ashort-term, stop-gap disease nullifier that would keep disease in a 'stasis' state until medical help can be rendered, but I still don't think it's fair to simply take the ability to cure away from the Doctors.

I really do think that's about the best solution I've heard, and that's the kind of thing I most suggest when I'm on here. I don't want to cure, really. Give me a way to pause the disease... or maybe halve or quarter the damage done for a bit... Enough time that I can run to another city or get a shuttle to Theed and go begging. Because unless our doctors happen to be nearby, that's what I'm going to have to do anyhow. I can make my own (really pitiful) healthpacks as a low-level medic and I can cure my own mind as a low-level entertainer, but I can't do anything at all to slow/stop the disease.

Healersare in this game for a reason, to heal. Piecemealing away their abilities will result inrenderingthem useless.

I'm an Image Designer/Creature Handler and one of my guildmates is a Master Ranger. I know all about uselesness. I just find it very frustrating that the only answer to the issue right nowis "find a Doc" - when I live in the "never a Doc around when you need one" world. Oh, I suppose I could beg another Imp to duel/db me right away and just take the 100 wounds to each bar...

If you really think it's fair to the Doctor profession totake two of their abilities away(in one form or another) then I implore you to post on their forum for their feedback on the issue.

Of course it's not fair to them.But there aren't ENOUGH of them to go around, where I am. Not by a longshot. And that's the other half of the problem.

-V

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Veldcath wrote:

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vortexala wrote:

Bottom line is this, you take damage you seek out a healer. You get hit with a state effect, you seek out a healer. This has been status quo for everything else in the game, why is it suddenly not a good enough system to deal with poisons? Granted, the healing aspects need to be ramped up in any number of ways, but the system itself shouldn't be changed simply because of this one type of state effect.

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Grr. Stupid forums. I had a long response written up to this and when I hit submit, it said I had to have a valid login, never mind that I WAS logged in. Here's the short version.

I know of no other profession (possibly Commando, I do not know if the fire DOT's do both damage and wound) which can fully wound someone's HAM bars if a doc is not immediately present.

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vortexala wrote:

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PadawanChong wrote:

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vortexala wrote:

But nerfing one profession(doc in this case, by removing two of it's abilites) to avoid the nerf of another is not the way to go about it.

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What I suggest does absolutely nothing to docs. There were conditions on someone applying a poison.

In all actuality, it does effect docs. /curepoison and /curedisease can be considered to be 'specials'.

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You didn't respond to this key point:

Message Edited by PadawanChong on 04-16-2004 03:43 PM

Lack of Doctors is actually a consequence of other issues and factors. It's something most of us said would happen if things didn't change...unfortunately we were right.

Doctors are supposed to be CM counters, perhaps not exactly 1to1 but dang near close to it. But the state of the game and all that has transpired since Live have made the Docs less and less available to the general populace, meanwhile CMs were finally fixed and elevated to a level where they should've been all along. So while the Doctor profession started strong, they steadily declined at the same rate the Combat Medic profession was on an uprise.

That reason alone is why I wouldn't be averse to other means and avenues of 'healing' being made more available to the general populace. Either by use ofchef created foodstuffs, or(now thatI think about it), Smuggler spices. Illegal meds that anyone can use but have serious side-effects. Makes sense that a smuggler could get you a 'fix' for what ails you, even if there was a downside to it.But I just can't justify removal of the doctor professions ability without due cause.

Being prepared means having buffs, having armour, having the best weapons you can afford, having the right group mixture, having the right foods/spices, and having a healer(medic/doc/cm).

Being caught unprepared means you suffer the consquences. When aplayer is caught unprepared and alone(1vs1), there should be a sense of danger. That player may have a chance to survive the encounter(especially if caught by a lone CM) but there is also a high probability that the Player will die. When a group is caught unprepared by a Group that is prepared, then the scale should be tipped in the favor of those who came to battle ready to go. That's just a fact of the GCW. Granted, the after effects may be a bit debilitating when a CM is involved, but it's one of the repercussions of choosing a faction.

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PadawanChong wrote:

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Veldcath wrote:

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vortexala wrote:

Bottom line is this, you take damage you seek out a healer. You get hit with a state effect, you seek out a healer. This has been status quo for everything else in the game, why is it suddenly not a good enough system to deal with poisons? Granted, the healing aspects need to be ramped up in any number of ways, but the system itself shouldn't be changed simply because of this one type of state effect.

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Grr. Stupid forums. I had a long response written up to this and when I hit submit, it said I had to have a valid login, never mind that I WAS logged in. Here's the short version.

I know of no other profession (possibly Commando, I do not know if the fire DOT's do both damage and wound) which can fully wound someone's HAM bars if a doc is not immediately present.

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Most people don't seem to know about this tip - even developers who cited Tattooines lack of water as a reason for creating fire blankets:

/prone

There - fire is gone.

Give me a /prone equivalent to CM's.

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/extinguish either Doc 3000 or 0300 in the tree (cannot remember off hand).

Fire Surpression Blankets where added but only a Doctor that has climbed a certain tree can use it with a certain med use.

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Veldcath wrote:

I'll point to the movie The Rock, or other movies with similar things... What did Doctor Goodspeed have at the end? A big honkin' needle he jabbed in his thigh as he was starting to die. Terribly inelegant and crude and painful, but effective. It kept him alive. Not a /cure, but, as you pointed out, more like a spice (which looks like a drug but can be eaten by pets. I've never figured THAT one out.) Actually, now that you mention it, I don't think something made by chefs would work either, though perhaps BEs could be involved (make some kind of bacteria that hunt out and devour most known toxins/bio-agents?).

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Doctors don't make Atropine kits. Chemists do. Since we are Chemical Warfare Experts after all, it makes sense that CMs would be the providers of such kits.