Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Don't Nerf CM Just Give The Prepared Player A Chance
PadawanChong wrote:
vortexala wrote:
But nerfing one profession(doc in this case, by removing two of it's abilites) to avoid the nerf of another is not the way to go about it.
What I suggest does absolutely nothing to docs. There were conditions on someone applying a poison.
In all actuality, it does effect docs. /curepoison and /curedisease can be considered to be 'specials'. They are required in order to even use a cure pack, in the same way you are required to have the /healdamage command if you wish to use a stimpack. If you want everyone to be able to cure, even if it wouldfollow the same rules as weapons whereby a person who is notcerted for it can not use it effectively, you would still need to remove the abilities from the Doctor profession and make them universal abilities everyone has. So yes, you will be taking away something from the Doctor profession.
Bottom line is this, you take damage you seek out a healer. You get hit with a state effect, you seek out a healer. This has been status quo for everything else in the game, why is it suddenly not a good enough system to deal with poisons? Granted, the healing aspects need to be ramped up in any number of ways, but the system itself shouldn't be changed simply because of this one type of state effect.
I can see implementation perhaps of some foodstuff that will serve the same purpose you propose, perhaps even act in the same manner, since there are already other foods out there that can heal damage and resist states. But it should not be a medical item that may take away from the elite medical profession..
Let me ask you this. Were you standing up for Scouts so strongly when it was found out that you didn't need a camp to pull out vehicles and droids? That totally screws up that whole tree. Or do you think that tree is still useful?
I see no usefulness for that tree. I see a lot of issues with Scout AND Ranger. I think they need a LOT of work and their Correspondents are doing their best to get those ideas across. My place isn't to work for that profession, it's to work for this one and the professional family it's part of(Medical Professions in General).
PadawanChong wrote:
vortexala wrote:
But nerfing one profession(doc in this case, by removing two of it's abilites) to avoid the nerf of another is not the way to go about it.
What I suggest does absolutely nothing to docs. There were conditions on someone applying a poison.
Let me ask you this. Were you standing up for Scouts so strongly when it was found out that you didn't need a camp to pull out vehicles and droids? That totally screws up that whole tree. Or do you think that tree is still useful?
I know its been said before, but an innoculation device would give the prepared player a chance....the only thing I would suggest is that this device be something a CM rather than a doc would sell as a way to offset the impact to that class. Like buffs or stims, I would guess the innoculation would becomea "necessary" (and lucrative) part of PVP action.
My suggestion is to actually grant the schematic at either novice combat med or master medic .... The product would only improve in stages and use combat med experimentation points. If we think the innoculationsshould bemore like stims (after the fact medicine reducing damage done by a poison,applied by someone with novice medic skill), then I'd say put it at master medic. For example, a CM can make stim B's (all the parts are in *medic*), but they are not nearly as good as the ones made by docs b/c of the points come from med experimentation.And in order to use stronger stims, one needs more medic skill. So in order to apply stronger reductions, you'd need greater medic skill up to pharm iv .If more like a buff (preventative med increasing resistance to poison hitting at all ), I'd say put it in CM, perhaps exactly where the enhance skill is now, and requirea CM to "apply" the innoculation which would lastup to the same amount of time as buffs, depending on how well theywere made and how high level the CM is.
Either way, I would suggest theadvanced versions of the innoculations require harder to get resources, so that the innoculations could top at 75% ( so people feel CM has the same reduction for PVP as other combat classes) but require basically all the rare poison c ingredients (not loot, just as hard to make as the good poisons) (so Cm's can't complain that the protection is easier than the weapon to get).Thelow level versions that are easy to make could start around 10%, the same way low level armor isn't very effective. It would also help if /diagnose could show you the type of poison and rate at which it ticked, so docs in battle could choose who to heal...but that's another subject.
Havingthat type of innoculation system would make PVP with CM's a little more challenging, but it would not completely rule out the need for doc (or tka ) abilities to cure poison/disease, and it would give CMs some money in their pocket without making them useless in PVP....
sorry if this posted twice, computer glitched...
I know its been said before, buta partially effective innoculation device would give the prepared player a chance....the only thing I would suggest is that this device be something a CM rather than a doc would sell as a way to offset the impact to that class. Like buffs or stims, I would guess the innoculation would becomea "necessary" (and lucrative) part of PVP action.
My suggestion is to actually grant the schematic at either novice combat med or master medic .... The product would only improve in stages and use combat med experimentation points. If we think the innoculationsshould bemore like stims (after the fact medicine reducing damage done by a poison,applied by someone with novice medic skill), then I'd say put it at master medic. For example, a CM can make stim B's (all the parts are in *medic*), but they are not nearly as good as the ones made by docs b/c of the points come from med experimentation.And in order to use stronger stims, one needs more medic skill. So in order to apply stronger reductions, you'd need greater medic skill up to pharm iv .If more like a buff (preventative med increasing resistance to poison hitting at all ), I'd say put it in CM, perhaps exactly where the enhance skill is now, and requirea CM to "apply" the innoculation which would lastup to the same amount of time as buffs, depending on how well theywere made and how high level the CM is.
Either way, I would suggest theadvanced versions of the innoculations require harder to get resources, so that the innoculations could top at 75% ( so people feel CM has the same reduction for PVP as other combat classes) but require basically all the rare poison c ingredients (not loot, just as hard to make as the good poisons) (so Cm's can't complain that the protection is easier than the weapon to get).Thelow level versions that are easy to make could start around 10%, the same way low level armor isn't very effective. It would also help if /diagnose could show you the type of poison and rate at which it ticked, so docs in battle could choose who to heal...but that's another subject.
Havingthat type of innoculation system would make PVP with CM's a little more challenging, but it would not completely rule out the need for doc (or tka ) abilities to cure poison/disease, would make it easier for docs as its unlikely everyone in a group would get poisoned by the same area poison throw, and it would give CMs some money in their pocket without making them useless in PVP....
vortexala wrote:
Bottom line is this, you take damage you seek out a healer. You get hit with a state effect, you seek out a healer. This has been status quo for everything else in the game, why is it suddenly not a good enough system to deal with poisons? Granted, the healing aspects need to be ramped up in any number of ways, but the system itself shouldn't be changed simply because of this one type of state effect.
Padtai wrote:
I know its been said before, but an innoculation device would give the prepared player a chance....the only thing I would suggest is that this device be something a CM rather than a doc would sell as a way to offset the impact to that class. Like buffs or stims, I would guess the innoculation would becomea "necessary" (and lucrative) part of PVP action.
My suggestion is to actually grant the schematic at either novice combat med or master medic .... The product would only improve in stages and use combat med experimentation points. If we think the innoculationsshould bemore like stims (after the fact medicine reducing damage done by a poison,applied by someone with novice medic skill), then I'd say put it at master medic. For example, a CM can make stim B's (all the parts are in *medic*), but they are not nearly as good as the ones made by docs b/c of the points come from med experimentation.And in order to use stronger stims, one needs more medic skill. So in order to apply stronger reductions, you'd need greater medic skill up to pharm iv .If more like a buff (preventative med increasing resistance to poison hitting at all ), I'd say put it in CM, perhaps exactly where the enhance skill is now, and requirea CM to "apply" the innoculation which would lastup to the same amount of time as buffs, depending on how well theywere made and how high level the CM is.
Either way, I would suggest theadvanced versions of the innoculations require harder to get resources, so that the innoculations could top at 75% ( so people feel CM has the same reduction for PVP as other combat classes) but require basically all the rare poison c ingredients (not loot, just as hard to make as the good poisons) (so Cm's can't complain that the protection is easier than the weapon to get).Thelow level versions that are easy to make could start around 10%, the same way low level armor isn't very effective. It would also help if /diagnose could show you the type of poison and rate at which it ticked, so docs in battle could choose who to heal...but that's another subject.
Havingthat type of innoculation system would make PVP with CM's a little more challenging, but it would not completely rule out the need for doc (or tka ) abilities to cure poison/disease, and it would give CMs some money in their pocket without making them useless in PVP....
Defensive meds are a Doctors arena.
Offensive meds are A CM arena.
Message Edited by Menoetius on 04-16-2004 04:12 PM
Menoetius wrote:
/extinguish either Doc 3000 or 0300 in the tree (cannot remember off hand).
Fire Surpression Blankets where added but only a Doctor that has climbed a certain tree can use it with a certain med use.
vortexala wrote:
But I just can't justify removal of the doctor professions ability without due cause.
vortexala wrote:
Granted, the after effects may be a bit debilitating when a CM is involved, but it's one of the repercussions of choosing a faction.
Menoetius wrote:
Note all these calls for nerf are directed related to the PvP arena. Remember for every 1 PvP'er there are at least 10-12 PvE'ers. You are all trying to balance the system for the minority without regard for the majority.
We mention PvP just because that is the biggest need immediately. But that doesn't mean it's the ONLY reason it's being brought up.
PadawanChong wrote:
vortexala wrote:
But I just can't justify removal of the doctor professions ability without due cause.
Why do you continue to go back to that? At NO point did I say that skill needs to be removed from a Doctor. Them being able to heal quickly is a virtue and a skill that could be very helpful in a large scale battle.
Please re-read my suggestion as I don't think you have a grasp on it if you think it calls for removal of a skill from Docs.
If the cure abilities are moved to novice medic in the form of an antidote you have effectively negated the Doctor's cure ability regardless if the Doctor still retains the skills or not.
PadawanChong wrote:
Menoetius wrote:
/extinguish either Doc 3000 or 0300 in the tree (cannot remember off hand).
Fire Surpression Blankets where added but only a Doctor that has climbed a certain tree can use it with a certain med use.
So then isn't that skill completely wasted? Why should a doc have a skill that I don't need (your argument for why taking away a cure would devastate the doc profession)? If I get flamed, I just go prone and the DoT goes away...
/meditate
Cost me an additional 20 skill points to retain this TKA ability after I dropped TKM. Cures poison/disease/wounds/bleeding but only if your not in combat. Does not cure flame DoT though, however fire blankets and water do.
PadawanChong wrote:
Menoetius wrote:
Note all these calls for nerf are directed related to the PvP arena. Remember for every 1 PvP'er there are at least 10-12 PvE'ers. You are all trying to balance the system for the minority without regard for the majority.
Not really. If you check this thread, I've now mentioned at least 2 times about the possibility of critters on Talus diseasing you. I use them as an example because that's the planet I know best. I'm sure there are other planets where you run the risk of catching a disease.
We mention PvP just because that is the biggest need immediately. But that doesn't mean it's the ONLY reason it's being brought up.
Enraged Dune Kimos, have a change to cause disease with strike that lands on a player. This disease is very lethal, more lethal than a MCM one. The Bull Rancor's disease on Dathomir is just as lethal.
Both of these are acceptable risks in playing the game and I am extremely thankful toa Doctor in my group when I am cured during combat.