Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic Fix
Jasynn wrote:
"The way poison and disease is being currently used in the game is ridiculous. I have been inbase raidswhere i was getting hit with poison or disease every 1-3 seconds for 3-4 minutes. In those situations it is impossible to keep yourself healed, let alone anyone else."
Dude. In the real world...poison and disease...or rather "chemical and biological warfare"are considered WMD's. They should hit hard. Maybe getting to the point where you are able to use these weapons should be harder so there are fewer CM's, but they are exactly what they should be.
There has one day on Bria at the canyon city battle where both sides had about 3 or 4 CMs. Both sides had about 30 in total with docs and everything. The whole battle was sitting there (poision ticking) watching the poison packs flying while the docs on both sides were bussy to keep themselves and the CMs healed.
Was fun to watch but not to fight.... well i couldnt fight much with 1 mind anyway.
Adune wrote:
MichaelF77 wrote:
600 a tick poison over 4 seconds - 125dps>
times 10 people that got hit = 1250 DPS.
Now think of it on a shot by shot basis: Poison lasts for what, 1 minute? 2 mins? I've never actually timed it. 60 seconds x 1250 dps=75,000 damage from 1 attack.
Show me an attack from another class that can deal that much damage. Don't pull out the DPS argument unless you're prepared to take it full circle.
Actually, since poison can not incap, the total damage received is moot point. For that matter,regardless ofDPS, poison will never kill you. If you have 600 mind, the best, strongest, furthest reaching poison will still only take away 599 mind points, whether it does it in 1 tick or 10. If the worst thing in the game is a non-fatal attack, from aclass that is easily put down in combat, I think everyone will be ok in the long run.
At least you wont die from poison.
Adune wrote:
Dec 16. That's over a month & a half ago. You know the rate of bug fixing in SWG. It could be another 3 months before this is fixed again. And then another 4 months after that before we've used up all our stock of 70m+ poison & disease.
Better be sure you don't have those good poisons in crates. Remember the fix for the medical use on doctor enhancinments? It was calculated AS they were pulled from crates. Hosed a lot of people. You could examine the crates then the stats change when pull them out. I have a very strange feeling this is going to be the method of retroactivly fixing things. Pull those 4 months worth of poisons out and put them in hoppers, just in case.
And yeah, it suqs
Jmercenary wrote:
How about this nerf cryers. For every raid you do have one defense stacking template, then have someone with doc to watch that person's back and his own for enemypoison. Instead of everyone being "tanks". I know it sounds crazy but teamwork wins, not just the solo Riflman/Fencer around every turn.
love it
on another note, i actually REALLY like the idea of area heals for poison and disease.i agree with adune that they should be a part of the combat medic class as who better to combat the poison and disease than those who make them.
the same rules would apply to the heals as to the poison and disease in that they would hit 100% of the time, but there would also be the same chance to resist the heal as there is to resist the poison and/or disease.
walls and floors need to be barriers to AE including the AE heals
same rules of effectiveness / range / area should apply when crafting
this would solve a LOT of problems. there would still be poisons and diseases flying all over, but with the need to also lob heals the CMs would not be throwing quite so many offensive packs. in addition, with the heals flying around Docs would have an easier time healing those not affected by the AE heals. with this being the case, not "every fight" would be just a battle of chemical warfare (i STILL do not believe this is the case AT ALL)
but if this became the case, would those of you who are combat medics AND crying for a nerf STAY combat medics? now you have gone from a suicide bomber to standing around chucking poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison- disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison- disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison - disease - heal - poison- disease - heal - well you get the idea...
you see what it all boils down to is how YOU deside to play the class. if you deside the only way to play Combat Medic is as a suicide bomber, then NO MATTER WHAT changes are made, you are going to play a suicide bomber. end of story.
if you deside that the term COMBAT Medic means that you can add something more to your arsinal than two items, and some clothing then perhaps you will have more fun with the class, but then perhaps you WON'T?!?! it is entirely up to you how you play the game. we can't change that for you
Neo said it best,
I wish that people were better at expressing their points then just screaming nerf. If you can't play, leave, If you can then your probably not screaming nerf because you probably have a good template and/or friends with the right profession and skills. Doc needs a boost to offset CM, bugs need to be fixed and things need to be enhanced for most classes in general making them all viable and fun.
Most of the people I play with have Doc abilities, they prefer to guard against the poison/diseases and buff as opposed to bonuses tokd/dizzy and Def mods. I suppose they should be nerfed next because everyone should be able to do it all and the defensive template should be the only people thatfeel l33t...
I welcome all balance related topics or enhancements to other professions to offset the abilities of CM's.
I have been a MCM for 2 1/2 months now and a Master Doc another month before that..I love the combination and will likely never change it....there are things that need to be fixed...the no incap issue with just poison is a bit frustrating for us and I am sure that the Non-CMs are ticked about the disease/poison incap trick not to mention our weapons hit the same in PvE and PvP with no reduction like the other fighting classes.
I was wondering if the idea ever came up for some kind of poison/disease resist stimpack or foodbefore..IE you have a certain resist to poisons/diseases for a certain amount of time....I know this wont help me in the long run..and in fact itwill hurt me..but atleast on the Wanderhome server...1 or 2 Combat Medics show up and the fight is over quickly...and I would rather see things balanced out.
These "resist" could be made by doctor, CM or Chef and could last however long the Devs or other players think is fair..hell it would even be helpful on adventure planets where you get poisoned or diseased left and right but the MOBs...
Not sure this was the right thread to post this..but it looked like it was better than starting a new one...just tossing in my 2 cents. 
The better the balance, the more fun, and challenging PvP is. Unbalanced PvP=what it is now. Defense stackers, lots of TK, lots of Rifle, lots of CM. Anyone that doesn't have one of the "uber" templates, sucks. Any of you that aren't playing fotm know what this is like, it sucks.
Adune wrote:
Call it nerfing, or call it balancing, or call it bug fixes. It needs to be done, and sooner than 4 months from now. CM isn't the only class. Defense stacking is pretty stupidly overpowered too. Jawa Ions are also abusive in PvP, due to the lack of viable mind healing & mind stun protection. Dizzy is also out whack with other states, because it completely takes out a non doc character.
The better the balance, the more fun, and challenging PvP is. Unbalanced PvP=what it is now. Defense stackers, lots of TK, lots of Rifle, lots of CM. Anyone that doesn't have one of the "uber" templates, sucks. Any of you that aren't playing fotm know what this is like, it sucks.
RhenGordon wrote:
It sounds like to me the only thing that is left is to just take away all special states and limit damage to only effecting Health and Action pools. Make every combat character exactly the same because someone "might" get an advantage over someone else.That is the nature of things. The only way to be absolutely fair is to say that you can only attack one way in combat. Your HAM all have to be exactly the same. Everyone will have the same armor, and we are going to impose .5% packet loss on every participant.The truth is that the different professions grant different abilities, at any given time one person's ability is going to be better then yours and vice versa. That is the way it is. It will never be totally fair for every person in every instance.
You still don't get it. Balance doesn't mean identical abilities. Ever played Starcraft? Warcraft 3? You have 3-4 different races with different abilities, and different strengths, but overall, pretty well balanced. The best players are the ones that know how to use their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses.
Another example is paper, rock, scissors. SWG is closer to Paper, Rock, Atomic Bomb.
It's VERY important to have variation. That's what leads to good strategy. Let's examine the states:
Blind: Lowers chance to hit. Not bad.
Stunned: Lowers chance to defend I believe. Not bad.
Intimidate: Slows the attack rate. Not bad.
Warcry: 10-20 second delay, but only work from melee range. Very good ability, counterable by staying out of melee range.
Dizzy: Combined with a knockdown, it's almost an automatic win. VERY good ability, counterable only by having novice Doctor. If you get hit by a dizzy/KD, in 1v1 combat, it's over for you unless the player is a complete idiot.
Comparing these abilities, you see: Good, good, good, very good but limited, and finally, the "I win" ability. How do you balance it? Change dizzy to make a player fall down every 8 seconds or something. Still makes if a VERY good ability, but by no means an "I win" ability. If it's still overpowered, increase it to 10 sec. If it's underpowered, make it KD every 5 seconds.
If balance is done well, there's a lot of variation, and strategy in PvP, with a wide mix of classes. If balance is done poorly, everyone is playing one of a few different uber templates, and everyone else is vastly inferior.
Bria is having a "Battle of all Battles" soon. There's a Rebel & Imp Detatch HQ setup 120m from each other, each 2k from the closest Imp & Rebel cloning centres. There's going to be large teams on both sides. 80% of the players attending will have one of the following elements:
-)Master Rifleman with Jawa spamming HS3.
-)CM spamming AE Poison/Disease. (That's me)
-)TK spamming KD2
With the following templates being the most common:
-)Master CM, Master Rifleman: Uber mind attacks, self healing, good defenses.
-)Master TK, Fencer 4-4-0-0: Master Rifle (IMO the best template around right now. Melee & Ranged D so high you essentially can't hit them, even at master elite, and can med off poison/disease)
-)Master CM, Master Doc: Also good, bombs the enemy while being able to cure themselves.
-)Fencer/Pistoleer: Master Dodger.
-)Master Doc, Master TK: A melee machine that only dies to mind damage. Given mind buffs, and good spice/food, they can run through a lot of people.
-)Master Brawler/TK/Fencer: The other melee machine. 20 sec warcry, intimi 2, lunge 2, Dizzy/KD, Meditate, Targeted damage to all pools, health bleeds, and can use a stun damage weapon.
Everything else basically doesn't get played. The CM's kill everyone without TK or Doc, and some of the TK's. Ranged folks can kill the stupid CM's, but not before the CM's launch the poisons that will clear 75% of the people involved back to the cloning centres. Master dodgers/defense stackers will easily kill off the melees, and non stacker ranged folks.
In my estimation, the battle is going to come down to who keeps the most TK/Rifle stackers & Doc/TK up until all the enemy CM's are dead. Once the CM's are gone, the stackers will clean up. The matches are also being setup so all you need to do in order to win is kill the enemy general. I think we could do some CM bombing to get rid of the non uber templates, then just rush all of our stackers in to just kill the general.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Adune wrote:
You still don't get it. Balance doesn't mean identical abilities. Ever played Starcraft? Warcraft 3? You have 3-4 different races with different abilities, and different strengths, but overall, pretty well balanced. The best players are the ones that know how to use their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses....
on this point we are in TOTAL agreement. i think our (your and my) disagreement / impass stems from just how "uber" Combat Medics are.
your description of the PvP templates is spot on. it would be nice to see some master carbineers, master pistoleers, master heavy swordsman, and master pikemen having a chance in battle, however the 'stacker' templates are in fact whiping the floor with 'pure' classes. i don't even want to bring up master creature handler for PvP... i have a master CH. FANTASTIC for PvE, but i run screaming from people with pistol IV...
at any rate i agree with the point that the stacking needs to be fixed, or removed entirely. i agree that if people continue to use classes the way they have in the past, some professions will ONLY be mastered because the little blue cube said so. AND i agree that combat medic needs some bug fixes, as well as some revamping, but what i am talking about differs from what you are taking about. i would like to see the issues in this thread handled:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=21196
the state of the profession thread by Pahdbacca sums up quite nicely the problems with Combat Medic as i see them.
tometaophion wrote:
The same argument was given to creature handlers, 'just target the handler', creature handlers are nice and balanced now, thank god. "Hey we should be able to have 3 rancors and solo jedi, come on, this is no fair" LMAO.
at this point in the game ANY profession can solo jedi. jedi still need a lot of fixing yet. i would tend to agree that CH is balanced in PvE now more than it was in the past, however the profession is as useless in PvP as it was before. i am NOT saying i want another "fix" for the profession. in fact if they touch it again i will most likely delete my master creature handler character. as it stands they have "fixed" the profession so many times that i play the character about once every two weeks...but this is thread creep.
the issue at hand is Combat Medics and the call for nerf. as i stated in my last post, i believe pahdbacca's State of the Profession covers the problems with combat medic quite nicely.