Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic Fix
PPL GRIPE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT ANY CLASS THAT CAN BEAT THEIR CLASS! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
PPL THREW A FIT OVER PETS AND CREATURE HANDLERS...COMBAT MEDICS AND THE LIST WILL CONTUINE TO GO ON AND ON UNTIL EVERONE IN THE GAME IS CARE BEAR'D AND THE WHOLE GAME DIES OFF LIKE ALL THE OTHER MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER GAMES CAUSE THERE WILL NEVER BE COMPLETE EQUALITY AND SOME PROFESSION WILL ALWAYS BE STRONGER THAN SOME OTHERS!
sorry about the caps..but read it twice...and understand ...unless every class has the same shots..the same damage..the same everything except the pixels that draw the screen THERE WILL NEVER BE EQUALITY!
Never, Never, Never.
learn to play your class and learn to enjoy it.
Adune wrote:
RhenGordon wrote:
It sounds like to me the only thing that is left is to just take away all special states and limit damage to only effecting Health and Action pools. Make every combat character exactly the same because someone "might" get an advantage over someone else.
That is the nature of things. The only way to be absolutely fair is to say that you can only attack one way in combat. Your HAM all have to be exactly the same. Everyone will have the same armor, and we are going to impose .5% packet loss on every participant.
The truth is that the different professions grant different abilities, at any given time one person's ability is going to be better then yours and vice versa. That is the way it is. It will never be totally fair for every person in every instance.
You still don't get it. Balance doesn't mean identical abilities. Ever played Starcraft? Warcraft 3? You have 3-4 different races with different abilities, and different strengths, but overall, pretty well balanced. The best players are the ones that know how to use their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses.
I absolutely do get it. I just don't get it from you. Apparently you are saying that having the differences in classes is good. Each class or profession if you prefer need their own specific place in combat. OK we have that. Now are we talking nerfing the CM then or are we talking about granting a more effective counter to the abilities you outlined?
What I have perceived you as saying, many times now, is that Combat Medic needs a nerf, but then you turn around and say that other classes need nerfs because they have abilities too strong as well.
The thing is there is a trade off on everything. You should well know this if you are a CM. We have to have a ton of rare resources to make the strongest, longest throwing poisons. We have no defense against any type of attack. Its not like CM is the be all end all of everything, we have our weaknesses.
If your complaint is about not having an effective counter, then we should be looking at classes that can be built up to effectively counter the combat medic. Is that a nerf? Not in my opinion. A counter available is not a counter that is always there. If you take something away from a class then you take that out of combat 100% of the time. If you add something to another class as a counter, then it is up to the players to make sure they bring that counter along.
I think if we all got on the bandwagon of not nerfing but creating a more effective counter, then we would see balance come back to PvP. As you say, Dizzy and KD is countered by a Doctor. I know this as a Master Doctor, and I am pretty good at removing states. So the counter for those things are there, we do not need to change anything.
Now if we want to talk one on one PvP well then strengths and weaknesses are going to become more apparent. As a master combat and Master Doctor I am bantha poodoo to any combat class. Sure I will get a poison and maybe a disease on the enemy but I lack the power to bring them down. I will likely be dead before the poison and disease do them in.
I will not get the DB on that, but he most certainly will get it on me. I will get the satisfaction of knowing that while I am was taken out like a 17 year old virgin on prom night, that he had to spend at least 10 minutes in the cantina for his efforts. Trade-Off? I think so, it cost hima little time to mess with the bull.
We will just have to agree to disagree, but since the devs have said that poison and disease are balanced, then we shall see what they do to make an effective counter.
hasibert wrote:
I think 1 master doc should counter one master combat medic.
i have to disagree. the more i think about some of the suggestions made in this thread, i believe that one Master Combat Medic should counter one Master Combat Medic. by this i mean the heal state packs that have come up in both Adune's posts as well as my own and those of a couple other posters here.
the roll of a Doctor is something different, not really out on the battlefield with the combat professions, that is what the Combat Medic is for. that is why they are CALLED Combat Medics.
The CM class takes advantage over a few different bugs, that take us from mildly overpowered, to completely insane.
The problem is, there's no fix in sight for most of these bugs. The bugs are:
-Range: CM's can throw from MUCH farther than weapon range. The is what allows a smart CM to WREAK HAVOK on the battlefield, without ever putting themselves in danger.
-Incap Ability: Poison+Disease=incap. This allows us to easily kill large groups of people with 2 clicks. Docs will never be able to counter our AE's. We simply hit too many people, and can keep on tossing the AE's as fast as they can cure one person. ANY group of players holding a base can be taken out with a few CM's.
-AE's ignore Z axis & geometry. This is the biggie. All I need is one legal target, and I can hit a large number of people that may be indoors, or behind other obstacles, or ever deep underground. This is a CRITICAL fix that needs to come in. The AE effects need to have line of sight checks. The realism arguments don't wash. If you want realism, then the AE's have to hit your own people, riflemen need to be able to 1 shot folks from 1000m, etc. It's not balanced in PvP, when one person can hit you, and you can't attack back. Throw range has to be the same, or less than weapon range, and AE's need to be toned down a lot.
The balance issues:
-Bomb vs cure rate: CM can bomb every 3 seconds. Docs can cure every 3 sec. CM's can AE from 80m, Docs can cure from 6m. That's not even remotely close to being balanced. I don't think a single doc should be able to counter a single CM, but it needs to be better than that. Telling everyone they should get 4-0-2-0 doctor to survive PvP isn't an acceptable answer. I'd like to see CM's have a point blank 15m area cure at master, with a 10 second timer, that cures all poison & disease in one shot. Adding line of sight checks may be enough to balance this actually. It will make it possible for players to play smart & position to avoid getting AE'd.
-Targeted AE mind damage. It's all about the mind damage. Yes, I realize this is a factor of the HAM system in game, and not a CM issue specifically. However, CM is the one class that can completely abuse the imbalance in HAM. Riflemen are the second, and their overpoweredness comes specifically from the Jawa Ion Rifle that thanks to Comp armor design, and it's AP1, makes it next to impossible to stop. However, the Rifleman can only go after a single target at a time, and when the Rifleman dies, the attacks stop. That isn't the case for the CM. All they need to do is have 3 seconds of life where 2 AE's get thrown. Everyone gets hit by mind bombs, and the CM dies (Only if he's stupid, the smart CM throws from 80m, and gets the heck out). Either the HAM system needs to be fixed, or the power on Mind poison/Disease needs to go WAY down. Health & action bombs are reasonable where they are now, it's only mind that causes the imbalance.
You can say CM is balanced if you fix the bugs. The problem is, the bugs aren't fixed, and aren't getting fixed anytime soon. We're talking about known bugs, that have been around for months, and still aren't fixed.
My vision for the CM is more of an uber support class than a Biological suicide bomber. I want to see area heals that heal way more damage, ranged heals that you can throw from 70-80m, that have a mind heal component to them. I want to see significant defenses on the class as well, with Ranged Mitigation 3 at master, and a good +20-50 ranged/melee Defense. Remove the wound component to the mind heal, and add a point blank group only mind heal with a 10m radius that has the wound component.
thepunisher286 wrote:Could someone explain to me how a CM is a "Combat" class?out of the 169 skill points used, 4/5 of it are used on HEALING, 1/5 is in rangd support. So you mean to tell me that the Ranged support tree should justify your ability to do insane amounts of dmg on pvp? A Combat medic is a normal doctor/medic that does his work, DURING the heat of combat last time i checked. I can understand poison and what not, but its way out of line on terms of how much damage they caus. Commandos spend the same skill points but is the worst combat class in the game, 5/5 of the trees needed is used in straight combat, yet get nerfed and somehow people say they are overpowered back in the day /shrug
How do you figure 1/5 - 4/5 ratios ?
MCM is:
Master Medic - 4 lines (support)
Ranged Support - 1 line (combat)
Master CM - 2 lines combat , 1 line support and craft (which is both)
So out of 9 lines 3-5-1 combat-support-both
But looking at MCM it's 2-1-1 combat-support-both
How much damage poisons cause are NOT what the issue is,the real issues are bugs with range an dLoS (and overwelming majority of CMs would gladly get rid of those bugs and submited them to devs), mind damage (which is addressed with combat system revamp) and loosers who can't find a doctor to heal them and get their you-know-what handled to them but good CM players.