Combat Medic Archive
Thread: About the DevChat Area Cures and Innoculations : Feedback Time, Folks.
vortexala wrote:
dunno if my opinion matters
Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple
A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.
Alright folks, this was a question and an answer given during the DevChat on July 15th.
Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of us think any Area Cure should go to us(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists) and that we also want a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.
So, if the devs ask why we should get it and not Docs, I want to give them a mountain of a response. I can do that on my own, but it would mean a lot more coming from the Combat Medic Community as a whole.
So, with that in mind...
How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
Implementation should be the docs giving it like current buffs...it should include at least 2 if not all cm made comps (thus the favored inter-dependancy)..outside of the comps...id also refrain from using BEC's in these
There should be 2 types of innoculations at the minium (1 for diseases..and 1 for poisons)..i mean you dont treat viral and bacterial infections the same...why should we treat these the same?? make the organics the same as the disease/poison packs require (ie fungi/insect meat) ...for extra difficultly can make them planet specific...like yavin
Innoculations should be in master box...or if you want it in the regular trees...make it so its offset from the regular /curedisease ...and then make it a/b/c/d varieties and just use the current med use lvl requirements
Effect should either be a resistance...which means CM's will be spending more into potency to overcome innoculations which means less pts into effectiveness. OR a straight up "toughness" that reduces the effectiveness of the poison/disease. (this one would be easiest to implement i believe)... or do a combo of the both.
Duration should be dependant on the resources and experimentation done...but should be something like 30mins or so max...
How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
area cures should be just like area stims...the components made by docs...the final product made by the cm...and once again offset the ability in the same tree you get the /applydisease in (forgetting at this hour of the morning lol) make them weaker than the single target cures that docs have (just like AE poison/diseaes are weaker than singles).
- And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?
RAnged cures are the area of CM's...if they made docs take any ranged skills as a req then id let them have it...but we take "Ranged support" as a req...kinda implies that were ranged support medics..no?? besides as posted...and posted since launch...docs are supposed to be the before and after combat medics...while cm's are the during combat medics...(from devs, Strategy guide, and book that comes with the game) thus it makes sense that docs get the innoculations ...but the bio-warfare experts have to make some of the components since we know it better...while we get the ranged support aids...ie area cures....but are dependant on docs for the compenents that need to be crafted just so..
Reaperss, Acidictadpole, PsionicHawk: Please feel free to edit yourcurrent posts to answer the questions posed. Sorry for thesudden edit.
Message Edited by vortexala on 07-15-2004 08:26 PM
havent been mcm since dec...and only play my friends mcm/doc when i need my fix... cause i still like cm...and would play it more if there was more balance to the prof...but the day i got a dozen tells asking for non-master lvl poisons/diseases was the day i stopped playing a mcm fulltime
miss the days of actually needing a cm in a pve group or you would die.
Brainplay wrote:
Long term Doctor innoc VS. short term Combat Medic innoc theory
Results:
Why would you pay a CM for a short term on the spot innoc when you can get a long term from a doc while getting your regular buffs? That short term thinking crap has often put me on the "beggars" role while trying to get reimbursed for area stimpacks while on non guild corvette runs. Pfft, I'd even settle for a pat on the back or some extra loot.
The reason a group would want to have the short term CM buff on top of a more powerful Doctor buff is because of the possibility of an opposing CM could have some realy nasty poisons that overpower the doc buff. Also if a doc buffed one pool but an opposing CM and his friends are targeting a specific other pool, you groups CM could do the area innoc on that attacked poolto counter their CM. BTW, the whole idea of doc + CM getting buffs, Doc's would get a single target long lasting innoculation that is equal in effectivness to the single target poisons to cancle it out, but again only on one stat.
You planning on charging your guildmates for innoc's while on a raid? How short term would this be and why would you want to risk getting a gimped short term innoc?
NOPE...wasn't trying to make a cash cow for CM's, I was however trying to make an ability that would "balance" the area poisons CM's have in their arsonal. Ididn't charge for the poisons I throw nor did I charge for area stims when I was a CM, I freely admit that I am not currently a CM because of the holo chase so my views and ideas may be off in your opinion. As to how short term, the same duration as a poison in the same class, but CM's wouldn't need to use a Droid or Medical Center to apply their version of the innoculation, so it could be done on the fly.
If it's a cash cow you want, for the area cures Doctors should use the area poison blueprint changing the IA requirement to a Liquid suspension requirement (quantity dependent on class level) and change the organic / inorganic requirements to match the standard cure classes. However the Doc/CM templet won't get anything out of this except more lint in the pocket
We still aren't sure exactly how an innoculation is going to function so there's no telling if this is a one class item or multi-grade. Is it going to be a resist or a mitigation? No one knows for sure. Hell they may even make it a Jedi only thing with the way they've been going on about this game.
Right we don't know what exactly they have planned, however my comment was in reguards to the ideas I expressed in my posts
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 07-19-2004 10:22 AM
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 07-19-2004 10:38 AM
Kavedawg wrote:
The whole doc area cure thingy (if doctors get it)
- Areacure effectivness should beway less effective than the standard curebecause
- CM area poisons are weaker than the single target poisons
- Doctor abilities are effected by Halva, CM's are not
- If one area cure type is made to effect all poison types, CM would be pointless in PvP
- and dammit Jim, they're a doctor not a CM (not adept at area med use)
- Area cures should be costly to manufacture because
- CM poisons are costly to manufacture
- Cheap area cures would be spammed quicker than the CM area poisoned (game breaking IMO)
- If onearea cure type is made to effect all poison types, CM would be pointless in PvP
- Area cures should use CM components in their crafting because
- Doctors would make everyone immune to all combat medic attacks, CM's shouldhave some meansto "controll" their owndemise
- CM's need a source of income and I believe if area cures were put in game everyone would get in line to buy our components to aid in killing the CM profession.
- If one area cure type is made to effect all poison types, CM would be pointless in PvP
In conclusion, putting an area cure in game usable by a Doctor or CM would be a very bad idea and would most likely kill the CM profession. I ask that this change be considered very, very carefully by the devs rather than making a brash decision and putting it in game. The end result of an area cure would be far worse than what CM's received with the +1 change on poisons. Innoculations alone can be made to balance the CM issues and can be "controlled" and balanced more effectively. I beg of you, do anything possible to prevent area cures from going into the game. I do realize that in the past I suggested an area cure "fix" but after thinking it through it will destroy the CM profession in PvP.
figured I better throw it here too, Area Cure = Bad idea unless the cure pack effectivness is less than 100
Kavedawg wrote:
Kavedawg wrote:
The whole doc area cure thingy (if doctors get it)
- Areacure effectivness should beway less effective than the standard curebecause
- CM area poisons are weaker than the single target poisons
- Doctor abilities are effected by Halva, CM's are not
- If one area cure type is made to effect all poison types, CM would be pointless in PvP
- and dammit Jim, they're a doctor not a CM (not adept at area med use)
- Area cures should be costly to manufacture because
- CM poisons are costly to manufacture
- Cheap area cures would be spammed quicker than the CM area poisoned (game breaking IMO)
- If onearea cure type is made to effect all poison types, CM would be pointless in PvP
- Area cures should use CM components in their crafting because
- Doctors would make everyone immune to all combat medic attacks, CM's shouldhave some meansto "controll" their owndemise
- CM's need a source of income and I believe if area cures were put in game everyone would get in line to buy our components to aid in killing the CM profession.
- If one area cure type is made to effect all poison types, CM would be pointless in PvP
figured I better throw it here too, Area Cure = Bad idea unless the cure pack effectivness is less than 100
Just to note that highlighted comment. Since there is only one poison type being used overall, it's a moot point. All they have to do is make Area mind cure and that'll be end of it since mind is the only pool that matters.
Anyway, Area cure should not be implemented because its simply too overpowering compare to the amount of skill points CM has to get to maintain their effectiveness. In order to use an Area Poison C *EFFECTIVELY*, a CM has to spend 169 skill points to master the profession, and yet the doctor only need to be 4/0/4/0 to be able to effectively cure any standard poison in one shot and 2 with halva if it's venom.
Kavedawg wrote:
Thanks, I also think that the innoculations alone could be enough to balance the CM issues in PvP. A couple of added points
If the innoculation wears off while a player is poisoned/diseased, the damage tick should be re-calculated to consider the reduced protection the player has
If Doctors can buff one pool and CM's are allowed to stack on the doctor buff or innoculatea second pool. If that 3rd (or secondin the case of stacking)pool is touched by doctor or CM, Dizzy, Blind, and a spice downer should be applied for the duration of the last innoculation a player recieved (better hope it was a cm)
Doctors can not stack their innoculations, CM's can stack their version of the innoculation. (ie A mind, B mind, Cmind innoculation)
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 07-19-2004 11:10 AM
Ok stackable CM innoc's would be a consideration for a "short term" buff. Didn't see any mention of "stacking" innoc's so thats why I was against "short term" only for Combat Medics.
As for the rest.. I have yet to see a real doctor in real life ever give someone an innoculation. Its always been a certified nurse, nurse assistant, or military medic. Innoculations were considered "below" doctor expertise due to their ease of use. If Doc's get both area cures and innoc's I'm going Doctor. Then I can move to their boards and watch them whine about why they should charge 30k for a buff instead of flaming nerf criers.
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 07-21-2004 08:20 AM