Combat Medic Archive
Thread: About the DevChat Area Cures and Innoculations : Feedback Time, Folks.
Page 6 of 6
Kavedawg
Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:04 am
#66
and another addition
A Single target C poison that was made using a loot drop item to boost effectivness should only be totalycountered by a single target Cure C pack using a loot dropped item to boost effectivness
if both area cures and innoculations are put in game, should innoculations cancle out part of the effectivness of a poison making it easier to cure? or should the damage just be "suppressed" while the poison continues to tick?
the second idea would allow for a person not to take damage to a pool from poison after aset of weak curesas long as the innoculation is present. As soon as the innoculation wears off, damage would be taken by a player.
EliteBlast
Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:52 pm
#67
I think doctors should be able to craft a stim that Squad Leaders can use to cure the group of all states including poison disease intimidate stun bleed fire ect. This would add much needed love to squad leaders and make them usefull for something other then unlocking jedi.
MissileToad
Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:57 am
#68
Whoops, I'm late jumping on to this thread but here's my two bits...
1. How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
First off, this sounds more like something for Doctor than CM. It fits in well with their "before/after battle" role. Components - Biological Effect Controller ('cause all heals/buffs have 'em), Solid Delivery Shell (as the idea of a vaccination is similar to a buff), and Infection Amplifier (as every vaccination/innoculation has a bit of the disease to help build immunity). Two Doc components and one CM component makes for a healthy cross-profession craft. As for raw ingredients... flowers, berries, a bit of radioactive, water, are a few ideas.
As other posters said, they should be effective but not totally negating the poisons/diseases. Think Synthsteak for the bloodstream.
2. How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
Components - not sure, lots of ways you could go with it. Should be a mix of Area Heal components and CM components. Resources - opposite of poisons and diseases: maybe berries in place of fungus, and wild meat in place of insect meat. Or just go with the same ingredients as Doc cures but with Area Stim components.
Strength - Having them be the equal and opposite poisons and diseases seems overpowering to me. They should either be of similar potency/effectiveness and have a smaller AoE, or a similar AoE but weaker potency/effectiveness.
3. And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?
We're the ranged heal guys! Combat Medics are the masters of ranged healing and anti-healing and area cures fits exactly in that category.
I do feel that innoculations are the realm of the Doctor though.
ZeroK0ol
Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:40 pm
#69
reading through some of this, not all of it. took a look on this forum because vortexela also put this on our dr forums.
but innoculations typically in real life are given to poeple INSIDE of a hospitol or a facility that can handle the side effects. Now im a MD and i would like to be able to go out into a battle field and havla spam the innoculations like the rest of em, but honestly it seems to make more sence to me if u were required to be in a hospital or have a droid. this way if you are in the field giving out innoculations at least someone can target ur droid and stop you.
IMO Innoculations would be pre/post battle and should be given to Doctors. The ingrediants would include some of the current poison ingrediants from a combat medic. resiliance compound/etc. And it would be a percentage of damage reduction in a time period. I would say that the max out of this would be 1.5 hours, the 3hour doc buffs are to long to be a comparison to this.
Area cures should be for combat medics, i know alot of dr's are arguing that they cure. but honestly it IS aranged component and if a dr wants it, then they should be required to do the ranged skill trees like the cm's OR drop the tree for the cm's and put the skill points on equal footing.
just a dr's opinion
Jumbo_Fett
Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:54 am
#70
Innoculations should be for docs, and area cures for CM's.
Just makes sense. You go to a doctor to get a flu shot, not a Combat Medic.
Shann0w
Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:22 am
#71
I can deal with area cures or individual cures. Innoculations however are a bad idea. Unless the innoculations are specific pool specific. In other words you can't be innoculated to protect all 9 stats.
Or is the innoculation attenuates the poison/disease rather than preventing it.
Renairdor
Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:34 am
#72
Every class needs a counter. For CM's the natural counter is a Doctor.
Inocculations should come from Doctors for the simple fact they are the counter to CM's.
Area cures should come from Doctors as a counter to CM's poisons.
Giving a CM the ability to use, and cure , poisons is unbalanced.
Inocculation parts could come from BE, CM and Doctors however. I'd like to see BE interaction with the inocculations for definite, potentially the parts for the area cures come from both CM and Doc - Dispersal Mechanism being an obvious part that could be used.
Ren
Chabian
Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:43 am
#73
Shann0w wrote:I can deal with area cures or individual cures. Innoculations however are a bad idea. Unless the innoculations are specific pool specific. In other words you can't be innoculated to protect all 9 stats.Or is the innoculation attenuates the poison/disease rather than preventing it.
But a doctor poison cure , cures everything from any stat? Whats the difference if i may ask?
Zalmun
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:35 pm
#74
1. How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
I think something that has to do with defense against poison should equally fall within the realm of the Doctor and CM, though not necessarily equal access to both. Perhaps, as other people have suggested, make the sub-components crafted by CM, with the final build and use falling to the doctor. This creates a nice interdependency between the classes that is sorely lacking. For example, I really like the fact that the flame blankets require components made by a tailor, as it creates a class interdependency. For level requirements, Master Doctor would make it prohibitive, but probably doesn't make the most sense. Limiting it to Master Doctor also eliminates the possibility of levels of innoculations, allowing lower level Doctors to use goods within their range, but masters to use the highest power goods. It all depends on if SOE wants to limit dabblers from having this ability.
As for the effect of the innoculation, I see a few possibilities:
- A type of damage reduction, where the stronger the innoculation, the more damage it prevents from any given poison or disease. This would be a time based buff, which would affect each poison individually as they are stacked on the player, so they cannot simply be bypassed by stacking area and single B and C poisons, or different stat poisons. It would be a blanket innoculation, or if that is too powerful, an innoculation based on the stat pool. This would also create the need for different innoculations for each stat... possibly annoying for having to require docs to carry more goods around for buffing, but it would introduce more strategy as to what to buff (although it's obvious that only the mind buff would be made or used 90% of the time).
- A type of damage absorption, like Synthsteak, where the innoculation could absorb up to a certain amount of a given type of damage before the buff disappears, or is used up. The number would have to be sizeable, so that a single application of an average poison pack wouldn't use it all up. Perhaps there would be different grades or classes of this, like A through C, or higher, to give different absorption affect. However, this gives the side effect of nerfing DOT weapons, which typically have a lesser effect, but might possibly be still affected by the same buff.
- A type of damage resist that boosts the chance to resist poisons outright. This would be a timed buff, probably graded from A to C for strength, and would simply improve the player's chance to resist the poison. This would be offset by the CM's ability to research potency to increase the chance the poison will take hold. By requiring the CM to research the poison in this fashion, she gives up potential damage, range, area affect, and charges. This makes the poisons weaker by nature to hit resistant people. Of course, if the poison hits, it functions normally.
2. How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
Area Cures are a touchy subject, as they combine abilities from the two classes, but of course, which class gets the ability? My opinion is that this is a very very powerful ability that needs to be restricted to as few key players as possible. How to do this? Make a 'synergy' skill, that requires a combination of BOTH Doctor and CM skills to perform, perhaps even Master Doctor and Master CM. This makes it so that this very powerful ability is only available to people who have dedicated most of their skills for the support role that makes up a dual Master, or at least someone who has committed most of their skill points to Doctor/CM. Combine this with crafting requirements that require both Doctor and CM components, with possibly either class being able to produce the final product.
3. And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?
I think I stated my opinions on the matter in the previous 2 points... no need to rehash it.
In conclusion, I hope they introduce more class interdependency and 'synergy' between the Doctor and CM professions, and this seems like a great place to start doing so.
I think something that has to do with defense against poison should equally fall within the realm of the Doctor and CM, though not necessarily equal access to both. Perhaps, as other people have suggested, make the sub-components crafted by CM, with the final build and use falling to the doctor. This creates a nice interdependency between the classes that is sorely lacking. For example, I really like the fact that the flame blankets require components made by a tailor, as it creates a class interdependency. For level requirements, Master Doctor would make it prohibitive, but probably doesn't make the most sense. Limiting it to Master Doctor also eliminates the possibility of levels of innoculations, allowing lower level Doctors to use goods within their range, but masters to use the highest power goods. It all depends on if SOE wants to limit dabblers from having this ability.
As for the effect of the innoculation, I see a few possibilities:
- A type of damage reduction, where the stronger the innoculation, the more damage it prevents from any given poison or disease. This would be a time based buff, which would affect each poison individually as they are stacked on the player, so they cannot simply be bypassed by stacking area and single B and C poisons, or different stat poisons. It would be a blanket innoculation, or if that is too powerful, an innoculation based on the stat pool. This would also create the need for different innoculations for each stat... possibly annoying for having to require docs to carry more goods around for buffing, but it would introduce more strategy as to what to buff (although it's obvious that only the mind buff would be made or used 90% of the time).
- A type of damage absorption, like Synthsteak, where the innoculation could absorb up to a certain amount of a given type of damage before the buff disappears, or is used up. The number would have to be sizeable, so that a single application of an average poison pack wouldn't use it all up. Perhaps there would be different grades or classes of this, like A through C, or higher, to give different absorption affect. However, this gives the side effect of nerfing DOT weapons, which typically have a lesser effect, but might possibly be still affected by the same buff.
- A type of damage resist that boosts the chance to resist poisons outright. This would be a timed buff, probably graded from A to C for strength, and would simply improve the player's chance to resist the poison. This would be offset by the CM's ability to research potency to increase the chance the poison will take hold. By requiring the CM to research the poison in this fashion, she gives up potential damage, range, area affect, and charges. This makes the poisons weaker by nature to hit resistant people. Of course, if the poison hits, it functions normally.
2. How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
Area Cures are a touchy subject, as they combine abilities from the two classes, but of course, which class gets the ability? My opinion is that this is a very very powerful ability that needs to be restricted to as few key players as possible. How to do this? Make a 'synergy' skill, that requires a combination of BOTH Doctor and CM skills to perform, perhaps even Master Doctor and Master CM. This makes it so that this very powerful ability is only available to people who have dedicated most of their skills for the support role that makes up a dual Master, or at least someone who has committed most of their skill points to Doctor/CM. Combine this with crafting requirements that require both Doctor and CM components, with possibly either class being able to produce the final product.
3. And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?
I think I stated my opinions on the matter in the previous 2 points... no need to rehash it.
In conclusion, I hope they introduce more class interdependency and 'synergy' between the Doctor and CM professions, and this seems like a great place to start doing so.
RebRifle
Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:50 pm
#75
a docs place is not on the battle field thats why there are "combat" medics. Jeeze we have no real medic and when we gonna get some docs wanna take it away.
Brainplay
Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:04 am
#76
Get out of that "Doctors are the only medical class" mentality. Game interaction is hurt more by that than anything else. All other MMO's have more than one class that can buff, heal, and cure making it more diverse yet in SWG there is only one that cures and buffs while 2 others (CM and master medic) who can heal but those heals are negated by the buffs.
Renairdor wrote:
Every class needs a counter. For CM's the natural counter is a Doctor. Actually there is no "counter" class to another class. The closest thing for that arguement is that there is a pool specific attacking match between melee and ranged. Well TK really have no place in that one but thats a different arguement.
Inocculations should come from Doctors for the simple fact they are the counter to CM's. Once again Doctors are not the "counter" to Combat Medics. There are however the only profession that can cure poison and if that ability is spread around then the arguement is debunked even further.
Area cures should come from Doctors as a counter to CM's poisons. see above. We are already super reliant on doctors for almost all medical and enhancement support. You're short sight makes you oblivious to the fact that Combat Medics are still a medical class.
Giving a CM the ability to use, and cure , poisons is unbalanced. Really? I see less griefing about DoT's if ANY profession other than doctors getsa limitedability to cure DoT's. So is buffing considered unbalanced since only one class has it and the others dont because that can fit into your arguement.
Inocculation parts could come from BE, CM and Doctors however. I'd like to see BE interaction with the inocculations for definite, potentially the parts for the area cures come from both CM and Doc - Dispersal Mechanism being an obvious part that could be used. Yeah I'd much rather get my components from a BE than a doctor. BE's need something that doesn't require incredibly HUGE amounts of meat to construct.
Ren
DragonstarTDR
Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:12 am
#77
Doctors Get Single Stims, Single Poison Cures, and Single Disease. Combat Medics get Area Apply and Area Stims, i think it would fall more in line of giving the area heal poison and disease. we should be able to counter what we throw, i also think cm's should form some kind of immunity to it, or natural resistance, working around it and knowing the poison/disease in and out. they need to make combat medic the profession is really is which in my opinion is more of a healing profession than any other, but alot of people set it out to be a 100% offensive profession(makes no sense cus ya gotta master medic not marksman), we should also get revive (as well as doctor) combat medics in my opnion are suppose to be able to save lives during combat, doctor is the before and after, but this patch is changing that.
DragonstarTDR
Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:17 am
#78
i would aslo like to add, that if they remove the poisoning through walls magically and fix all this visbility BS, it would not be that harsh of a profession, its the fact you can run into a faction base, apply a area poison, and the guy at the very bottom gets poisoned too, through the floor.
Page 6 of 6