Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Dev Response to CM top 5 issue List
vortexala
Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:58 am
#53
Heh, what can I say, he probably didn't want me pestering him 
squishklown
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:27 pm
#54
Always there with my two cents....
I keep seeing a call to lessen the damage and effectiveness of CM poisons and diseases. The solution isnt there. Why not, and this makes sense, provide the CMs with an ability to craft an innoculation or antidote to diseases and poisons. This would work similar to the MD buffs and would be the only way that CMs could make a decent living in a high-crafting profession.
Antidotes would be of the ABC level and provide the same (yet opposite) protection of DoT's. The true beauty is that you would have to "guess" when the protection has warn off (no warning like spice vomits or negative buff numbers flashing before your eyes).
As to some comments calling CM's a "support role," one of the attainable titles is chemical warfare expert. A good mind or health poison is the only balance against getting lit on fire or knocked down from 50m. In essence, the ability of a CM to do DoT is the only true strength. In other words, "you may kill me, but my legacy will blacken your bars."
If we keep taking things away (nerfing guns, pets and poisons), eventually SWG will be one big pillow fight in front of the Coronet Starport.
SiNLeP
Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:22 pm
#55
First I'd like to point out the part of the post regarding CM's getting faction for healing and DoT's.
Even though CM's can deal out 99% of the dmgin pvp and they are usefull for healing in pvp that is no reason to give out faction to them an I'll explain why.
1)All other professions in the gamehave to be within deathblow range to get the faction points awarded for killing another player (rifleman being the only ranged DB) so giving CM's a percentage of the total FP awarded just for tossing a DoT would be extremly unbalanced. In other words if you giveCM'sa ranged DB or a % of the FP based on dmg done you might as well give ALL classes the same %...and even if this was instated it would bring up the issue of melee vs ranged (ranged always having an advantage) and also larger dmg classes such as Commando (more dmg done=more FP on the actual DB)
2)CM's are supposed to be a SUPPORT class. Just like Doctor or Squad Leader this is a profession ment to help others...not to be a profession that is meant to clean a battle field. CM's as they are right now can take out any other class in the game just by tossing a powerfull mind poison/des if anything they should have weaker attacks not stronger.
3)CM's as they stand currently can heal HAM 95% as effectivly as doctors can AND they can toss meds upwards of 70-80 meters which is not only SUPER POWERFULL but also out-ranges every class in the game. On top of this the dev's gave CM's the ability to heal MIND the one thing that cannot recieve powerfull buffs from doctors (dancers and musicians can buff but at max it only doubles your current stats) and even Jedi cannot heal mind untill later in their skills.
On top of these examples I've given I'd also like to address the AoE meds issue.
Although I think the AoE should be fixed to hit all of the players within its range for healing I believe that DoT AoE meds should have some sort of cooldown or accuracy modifiers or even player cap limit to lessen the killing power in pvp.
1)Right now CM's can toss Mind poisen/des packs thathave a strengthof 450 or more per tick. These packs are not only easy to craft but can be spammed in a battle area and are capable of completely whipeing out whole groups of people in under 30 seconds from out of retaliation range.
2)CM's have no segnificant cooldown on the use of powerfull offensive meds. I think it would be appropriate to put a timer of 30 seconds or more (like knockdown) and also a chance to miss making it harder to take down whole groups on account of missing people. Also attacks like knockdown and dizzy etc.areresistable and poisen/des are not.
3)Every other kind of weapon has a specific damage type. This is not true forCM meds and is thereforalways at 100% dmg. I think thatif every other type of weapon and special attack for that matter can be resisted by some sort of armor or clothingthat there should be some sort of buffer skill ordmg class put into affect in order to decrease the devistation done by CM
4)Many many people, before being patched out, used defencive combinations andproffessions that complemented each other in order to stay alive in pvp. Now since a good amount of those tactics have been disrupted by nurfing and patching many people are back to using a single main profession to kill people in pvp. With CM you get terrain negotiation (others have to use scout or squad leader) you get the ability to heal yourself, you have the ability to deal large amounts of dmg in the form of HAM & wounds and you can deal area damage from further than any other class in the game. CM are too self sufficiant and need to either be tweaked nurfed or put into a hybrid format like BH or Commando in order to limit left over skill points.
There are many other things I'd like to post about but this post can't last forever.
Pahdbacca
Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:44 pm
#56
Hehe
SiNLeP wrote:
First I'd like to point out the part of the post regarding CM's getting faction for healing and DoT's.
Even though CM's can deal out 99% of the dmgin pvp and they are usefull for healing in pvp that is no reason to give out faction to them an I'll explain why.
1)All other professions in the gamehave to be within deathblow range to get the faction points awarded for killing another player (rifleman being the only ranged DB) so giving CM's a percentage of the total FP awarded just for tossing a DoT would be extremly unbalanced. In other words if you giveCM'sa ranged DB or a % of the FP based on dmg done you might as well give ALL classes the same %...and even if this was instated it would bring up the issue of melee vs ranged (ranged always having an advantage) and also larger dmg classes such as Commando (more dmg done=more FP on the actual DB)
Range has nothing to do with it. If a CM happens to do 90% of the damage, would be nice if they see 5% of the faction points. As it is now, they see none.
2)CM's are supposed to be a SUPPORT class. Just like Doctor or Squad Leader this is a profession ment to help others...not to be a profession that is meant to clean a battle field. CM's as they are right now can take out any other class in the game just by tossing a powerfull mind poison/des if anything they should have weaker attacks not stronger.
Who says, besides you and a few other BHs, riflemen, etc that come into this forum, that CMs are supposed to be a support class? The question has been askedof several people, and nobody of Dev or TH rated authority has spoken. YOU think that CMs should be a support class, and I can respect that. But, just because you think it should be so, doesn't mean it is.
3)CM's as they stand currently can heal HAM 95% as effectivly as doctors can AND they can toss meds upwards of 70-80 meters which is not only SUPER POWERFULL but also out-ranges every class in the game.
Old news, I need to make a macro that says...
On the matter of DoTs being able to be thrown farther than 64m...
'The Devs are aware medical DoTs can be thrown over 64m and the ranges formedical DoTs is being evaluated.'
On top of this the dev's gave CM's the ability to heal MIND the one thing that cannot recieve powerfull buffs from doctors (dancers and musicians can buff but at max it only doubles your current stats) and even Jedi cannot heal mind untill later in their skills.
So, we are a support class but shouldn't be able to heal mind (which causes sever mind wounds when this ability is used)...so, as a support class we should be able to "heal HAM 95% as effectivly as doctors"? Oh, wait....that's right, I forgot, they can cure disease, oh, no, wait, they can core poison, oh, no, wait, they can buff?, oh no, wait, the can res?
On top of these examples I've given I'd also like to address the AoE meds issue.
Although I think the AoE should be fixed to hit all of the players within its range for healing I believe that DoT AoE meds should have some sort of cooldown or accuracy modifiers or even player cap limit to lessen the killing power in pvp.
Yep, we can toss the once every 4 seconds, during which we cannot move or shoot andy weapons...and those poisons really can incap now, can't they.
1)Right now CM's can toss Mind poisen/des packs thathave a strengthof 450 or more per tick. These packs are not only easy to craft
Really easy to craft? OMG, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time! That's right, I can step outside my door right now and find 900 OQ class 2 liquid petrochem, yavin fiberplast, class 1 radioactive, eleton reactive gas, tolium reactive gas, titanium aluminum, fungus, aluminum, and liquid petrochem fuel. Then I comine the resources (more than the amount needed to make an fwg pistol), cross my fingers on the experimentation, and get a stim I can use 40 times before I have todo it all over again.
but can be spammed (every 4 seconds) in a battle area and are capable of completely whipeing out whole groups of people in under 30 seconds from out of retaliation range. Ooops, where is my macro....
On the matter of DoTs being able to be thrown farther than 64m...
'The Devs are aware medical DoTs can be thrown over 64m and the ranges formedical DoTs is being evaluated.'
2)CM's have no segnificant cooldown on the use of powerfull offensive meds. I think it would be appropriate to put a timer of 30 seconds or more (like knockdown) and also a chance to miss making it harder to take down whole groups on account of missing people. Also attacks like knockdown and dizzy etc.areresistable and poisen/des are not.
How many attempts a KD do you get against a CM in the amount of time it take him/her to throw 2 stims? Yes, medical DoTs can be resisted....it's something we have to take into account when we are doing our easy crafting...
3)Every other kind of weapon has a specific damage type. This is not true forCM meds and is thereforalways at 100% dmg. I think thatif every other type of weapon and special attack for that matter can be resisted by some sort of armor or clothingthat there should be some sort of buffer skill ordmg class put into affect in order to decrease the devistation done by CM
You are correct about the area stims doint 450 damage per tick. Yes, that 450 damage every 10 seconds (or 45 damage per second) really should be reduced 50% by some sort of armor to the point where it does 25 points of damage per second.
4)Many many people, before being patched out, used defencive combinations andproffessions that complemented each other in order to stay alive in pvp. Now since a good amount of those tactics have been disrupted by nurfing and patching many people are back to using a single main profession to kill people in pvp. With CM you get terrain negotiation (others have to use scout or squad leader) you get the ability to heal yourself, you have the ability to deal large amounts of dmg in the form of HAM & wounds and you can deal area damage from further than any other class in the game. CM are too self sufficiant and need to either be tweaked nurfed or put into a hybrid format like BH or Commando in order to limit left over skill points.
Too self sufficient, huh? Master CM requires the SAME amount of skill points as Master Commando, plus, in order to make their only allowable weapon (if they use the CM profession only) they need to take artisan to survey for those resources....but then I need doctor skills to be able to fully experiment on my own healing meds. So that leaves me with enough skill points to....uhh oh. Nevermind. I'm gonna be a master CM/master pistoleer. So, after that I can take, nope, cant take novice artisan...oops, can almost take novice Doc... Get the picture?,
There are many other things I'd like to post about but this post can't last forever.
You just may be a tad bit underinformed about the CM profession. Hope I cleared things up for ya.
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 01-30-2004 11:11 PM
SiNLeP
Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:14 pm
#57
Many of the things I was corrected on I take back, its true that I am somewhat uniformed about cm's but mostly because I just recently started playing again.
Although I still think giving combat medics ALONE a percentage of the fp is a very unwise decision. Many professions (especialy ranged) don't get the FP from the deathblow because they pvp in a group setting. If you give CM's a % tjam you have to give everybody a fair chance. Like I said before this won't happen because of the supreme bitching power or all the lower dmg professions. I'm prefectly ok with getting a % of FP depeding on my dmg but what about deathblows? are we taking the FP off the DB itself? If not what about people that are soloing and do 100% of the dmg AND get the DB...do they get twice as much? Will they scale down the FP per kill to correct that?
That post was mostly a rant so if I was out of line then by all means correct me (as has already been done somewhat) thank you for your input and I'll be sure to do a bit more research before posting such a long winded msg again.
Zarlor
Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:24 am
#58
Well, if we are talking PvP, then I would also agree that CMs ALONE should not get a share of FPs. Heck in PvP only the person doing the DB gets FPs anyway, which I think is just screwy, personally.
The gist of the issue in question, I believe, comes from situations where most combatants normally get a share of FPs in PvE. Right now CMs are, at least partially, getting some FPs for DoT use, but none of themedical professions get any FPs for the major contribution they provide to a group through their healing abilities. I think that is certainly a major issue that also needs to be addresses and it tends to be an issue that stands pretty high on the Medic and Doctor issues lists as well.
Naris
Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:31 am
#59
Okay speaking as a CM here. Yes in some ways we are a support prof, but the devs did give us the poisons for a reason. As much as I hate getting my butt kicked by another CM's poisons it's all part of the game live with it people. I do agree combat medics should get some way of curing or protecting other players from poisons and diseases, heck we make the bloody things. Also may I point out for all you CM's whining about no incaps from poison; pick up a gun. Make poisons that target the stat pool that your weapon of choice hits and be done stop griping. Well that's my 2 cents worth, good job devs and keep up the good work.
Pappi
Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:47 am
#60
Zarlor wrote:
Well, if we are talking PvP, then I would also agree that CMs ALONE should not get a share of FPs. Heck in PvP only the person doing the DB gets FPs anyway, which I think is just screwy, personally.
The gist of the issue in question, I believe, comes from situations where most combatants normally get a share of FPs in PvE. Right now CMs are, at least partially, getting some FPs for DoT use, but none of themedical professions get any FPs for the major contribution they provide to a group through their healing abilities. I think that is certainly a major issue that also needs to be addresses and it tends to be an issue that stands pretty high on the Medic and Doctor issues lists as well.
CMs have the potential to be both a support and a combat prof, depending on what you choose to be. i like the flexibility of this class, as wellas how much chaos i can cause when people really piss me off 
as for medical profession getting FP, it's probably hard to find a solution that everyone agrees on 
we'll see what Traigus and Zarlor comes up with *stare*
we'll see what Traigus and Zarlor comes up with *stare*
Ekefo
Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:18 pm
#61
If CM is made a Combat profession and they gave us more combat skills, then by rights they should nerf the support skills and vice versa. We cannot expect the best of both worlds. We get a nerfed doctor and a nerfed combat class. That seems fair to me (no need to get mad at me though, I just started CM a week ago so I haven't lived with the pain the way the rest of you have :smileywink
Pahdbacca
Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:29 pm
#62
Ekefo wrote:
If CM is made a Combat profession and they gave us more combat skills, then by rights they should nerf the support skills and vice versa.
No. NO. NOO. NOOO. NOOOO.
Nothing gets nerfed in CM, support OR combat, until they are worth the 169 skill points needed to get master, then we can talk about balancing. We shouldn't be as powerful a combat profession as commando, and we shouldn't be as powerfull a support profession as Doctor, but we should be more powerful as CMsthan we are right now. We need improvements as a combat or support profession, or as a little of both.
Like you've said, you've only been a CM a week. Welcome aboard. Any more nerf talk though and we're gonna set the goon squad on ya 
Zurck
Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:07 pm
#63
One of my biggest gripes with CM is the level of missions you receive. Has anyone else noticed this? It does not factor in our Poisons & Diseases when generating the level of missions like it does when you equip a weapon. Am I the only one who see's this as a problem since our main weapon is our DoT's?
Pappi
Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:45 pm
#64
hehe, you know... i look pretty darn scary to other players when i hold a few poison Cs, but the terminals are immune... so the mistress combat medic's stuck getting missions with her crappy carbineer skills
what if we can make computer viruses? maybe we can scare the terminal enough that it'll actually give ushigh payoutmissions
(i'm just kidding btw, don't stone me to death O.o)
charris456
Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:02 am
#65
Yeah, I would like to get higher level missions also..
But what would it rate it on? Poison/Disease Damage, Your CM skill level, or what?