Combat Medic Archive

maybe a DB should cost the same on theHAM as1 specialshot from theweapon the person is using, it would slightly help out in the situation where you would normally be incapped at the same time. Since the other guy would still be standing but only have +1 to one of the HAM pools, they would not be able to do the DB untill they got a heal

Give docs the ability to temporarily make someone immune to poison/disease. And maybe make it so they can either be immune to health and action disease, OR mind disease, but not immune to both at once.

Just a thought.

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Cukova wrote:

Because if they don't fix this, then I promise you that there will be ton of people being combat medics just like there are now commandos. Just a thought

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This is not necessarily true. The grind will turn most away from it, as many of your commandos/BH honestly do not have the patience to do the crafting tree. CM is setupto basically negate casual dabblers from deriving any real value from the profession. You're either a Master CM or you're just a stim-tossing, glorifiedmedic.

The "outcry" on CM's hasn't really been that great, and I hate to see this huge panic move as everyone scrambles to find some middle ground on a debate that hasn't even really begun yet.

What needs to be done is a steady push to find the true definition of griefing, have the problems we KNOW are already an issue (corpse infection/RTEF) fixed, and THEN worry about the rest.

It won't matter how much middle ground we find, if they're going to swing the nerf bat before they fix the broken bits, they're going to swing it and there's not a **edit** thing we can do about it. I mean, hell, how much attention are the devs giving us right now anyway?

I think Zarlor and Mraugh are on to something here, and I'm glad to see the thread taking this turn...

I'd like to make a proposal that has only slight modifications to Mraugh's and Zarlors. It's in two parts, and I'm hopeful that responses can deal with each part individually:

Part 1: Poisons take you to 1 health (Zarlor) and keeps you there against regen/stim heals (unless you can outheal it). You must find a doc, and this reinforces the need for docs. But once at one health (Mraugh) you enter a new state of "Stupor". No more incaps. In this state you cannot fight and you cannot DB. No more incap flippin. No more grace timer. You can move to find a doc but your movement rate is impaired. This fufills the CM combat desire to whittle the battlefield and remove subjects from the equation, and return to them later (Michael/Krahgon), and the no FP issue (Zarlor).

This Stupor state is specific to poisons/diseases and is removable only with a cure poison/disease application by a doctor. Doc value promoted. And by not converting poison to another state, we don't shift the value of cure poison to cure state packs in a Doc's inventory. Diseases act in a similar manner.

Part 2: Is a measure for grief victims. I really don't mind our offensive power in battles, but I'm mindful of the grief potential. Things we can to do limit the propensity/severity of griefing while preserving our intended power, I think are highly valuable defensive proposals on our part. 3 to 5 minutes into a state of 'stupor' the player is allowed to commit /suicide. This timer needs to be positive to fulfill legitimate desires of having CM weapons take opponents out of the equation to come back to later. The positive timer also prevents people from suiciding to avoid a FP transfer. This is designed to deal with instances in which the CM dies first or because the CM is griefing, andthe player is somehow forced to ride out the full duration. A /suicide command would give them an out. Given pending insurance reintroduction that /suicide would have a cost, but it's an easy bone to throw that is targeted to grief mitigation.

Thoughts?

Jacore

I like the idea of replacing Diseases with AoE state bombs. Dizzy and Blind would be especially powerful. I just don't like the way diseases work.

If they do keep diseases, I would just hope for a drastic reduction in duration. Waiting 15 minutes for the disease to go away is just far too much of a pain.

I think the poison duration needs to get hit hard. I could handle poisons sucking me dry but I have seen 15 minutes or close to it go by and the poison still working. Disease on the other hand I believe needs to get the nerf in both areas, if there isnt a doc around you are SOL and you cant do anything. This is from the targets point of view but my bleeds are nothing compared to what you people have. I just think its bad when I am a 0-3-4-3 BH and I am deathly afraid of combat medics

MichaelF77 wrote:

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If the solution works the way I understand you propose (DoT bring people down to 0 but does not incap) what benefits are there for CM ? I don't see any.

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I must have missed something about being a CM here, but isn't the advantage taht we are doing Damage over Time? They get ticked for damage making them easier to take down. In a full drop that would be a 1 shot. (And it would be drops the to 1, not 0 since 0 and lower would be incap, just to be techinical.) And of course that damage stacks with any other damage being done to the individual(s) in question. So the damage is still being done, the DoT is still ticking away (so even if they heal, they are still going to lose damage, just never below 1). So I'm not positive I'm seeing this.

If poison does not incap we have no advantage to using it, is that what you are saying?

I'd really like to see this one in action. BNecause I think that conclusion really is the question of the hour on this. Is there some greater inherent advantage to incap with poison (as oppsoed to any other means), or is it a disadvantage not to incap? Would a more powerful poison (getting the person down on their damage level faster) be more useful in a situation where incap does not occur, but you can be assured, in such a case, that even if they tried to stim they would virutally be back down to only 1 damage in no time, making them an easy kill?

I keep thinking we'd need to see it in action. It's also why I wonder if we wouldn't need something more if a poison does nto incap, like some kind of state or the othersuggestions above.

Keep it coming though, we might be getting somewhere with this, I am thinking.

Jacore, I like your proposal so far, but will withhold a reply on it in full until i've had some time to think on it(been a long day and i'm just not in the right state of mind)

As for those who would like to see AoE State Induction Packs, I actually think that's a good idea. It will add to the CM Profession and complete the yin-yang with the Doctors State Heal abilities.(Although there are some issues with uselessness there, but those can be worked out). However, that idea would be best left to it's own thread EXCEPT in the case where it is supported in this thread as a viable replacement for AoE Disease.

I hope that made sense...I really need some sleep...

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If poison does not incap we have no advantage to using it, is that what you are saying?
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I was comparing it to current situation.

Now:
Poison ticks - when stat drops to zero : person dead - poisoned person can not inflict damage and DB.

Proposed:
Poison ticks - when stat drops to one : poison keeps the stat at low - poisoned person can inflict damage and DB.


If I misunderstood proposal: please correct.
If I understood proposal: There is no advantage in "Proposed" over "Now" ? There has to be SOMETHING, otherwise CM usefullness in combat would be severely hindered (see below)



> Is there some greater inherent advantage to incap with poison
> (as oppsoed to any other means), or is it a disadvantage not to incap?

Disadvantage:
Solo - no chance to capitalize on "suicide bomb" tactic, most classes outdamage us severely and if we incapped - we are dead as they walk away with 1 life.
Group - AOE poison makes everyone target and incap CM, if they not incapped - they can still do damage and DB CM.

There is even worth situation if one of them is doctor - and he starts removing poison (which he would not be able to do for 90 seconds after incap as it is "now")!!!



> Would a more powerful poison (getting the person down on their damage
> level faster) be more useful in a situation where incap does not occur,

Well if it's coupled with damage increase - then DPS has to be on par with Master Class DPS (say... commando? )



> Keep it coming though, we might be getting somewhere with this, I am thinking.

Perhaps new thread is in order, as this is really AOE disease discussion (which is NOT even working at the moment )

Jacore, that sounds fine to me. Only thing I would add is that the /suicide option completely remove the revenge TEF also.

I'm not a real fan of state AOEs, simply for the fact that they are treading on other classes special abilities to inflict.

Something to be considered with diseases in general is to remove the DoT of them and have it as a 1 time use. IE if i toss a single use health C disease you will take2000 health wounds. In addition,I would make AOE's to be 1/2 the amount of wounds that a single use can apply. Does2000 sounds like alot? yes, however this would be with 2/3 advanced parts and 1000 quality resources, say that 2000 would be the cap with perfect parts and resources. We could probably even increase the amount of wounds.for PVE, diseases would actually have a use then.Also introduce the 75% penalty for pvp, so you are looking at a max of 500 wounds inflicted. My E wound packs heal for well over 1k a shot, this gives master docs something to do other than cure wounds on faction pets and flamethrower wounds.

Zarlor:
So I guess concievable if you AoE'd, say, 5 people who would have normally incapped in 24 seconds. With a group they could effectively do that incap on maybe 3 of those people instead. so you might get 2 not incapped who would ahve gotten an action or two that they might not have gotten otherwise....

Exactly! Except as it is now I am usually incapped (5 people all shooting one person), so it's in their best interest to DB me ASAP (which they are trying to do now with various degree of success, and will definetly do in the future).

> But if it is, does it outweigh the benefits of dropping folks to 0 and letting DoTs tick normally?

If the solution works the way I understand you propose (DoT bring people down to 0 but does not incap) what benefits are there for CM ? I don't see any.

In the dream world, I would redo Disease completly and have them root players (root - can not move, but can do anything else ie shoot, heal)

That would be tremendous benefit for both PvE, PvP, solo and group, and will add to OUR skills greatly.

See I disagree and I think that CM should be able to inflict state changes. Here are a few ideas and would like to get some feedback on what the rest of the Combat Medic community thinks.

Tear Gas: Blindness
Nerve Gas or some type of sedative: slows attack speed.
Some type of irradiated attack: Unknown, perhaps instant wounds.

These are just some ideas.

Oreb Ed'Fey
Master Combat Medic
Wanderhome
"No, a combat medic is not a ranged doctor"