Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Poison can now be cured with TUMS!
Zarlor wrote:
Bully for you! I am please that you have such incredible insight as to see and know a full solution when you see one and never miss those "unforseen" repercussions. Congrats!
jfergie wrote:
I would personally recommend only giving the devs suggestions which truly fix problems, or give them the solution in full.
I believe you were the one that pointed out your suggestion needed more work and shouldn't be implemented verbatim. Even though it was. I am just saying, if you know this already, don't post it until you have the additional information for the suggestion. As it was, your suggestion got implemented and many CMs quit.
So bully for you for ruining the game for so many CMs.
I am curious why the +1 thing was recommended over what I posted previously:
1. Any mob/player killed by a poison gives looting rights to whomever apllied the poison.
2. An incap clears all states (poisons, stun, dizzy, everything) to prevent the incap dance.
Doesn't this seem like a more reasonable change than the +1? I am surprised this wasn't recommended over +1.
Zarlor wrote:
Well, obvious difference of opinion there. I believe it is better to offer options.
I suppose there is. I personally still don't understand why +1 was offered as a suggestion over just clearing states on incap to fix the incap dance, but I'll chalk it up to a difference of opinion.
I will say this though. Anyone that is a correspondant for a profession is obviously going to a lot of effort and making some person sacrifices in order to make the game better in theory. With that in mind, remember your voice carries much more weight than a normal poster, and you should strive to hold yourself to a much higher standard.
I, along with several other posters that I have read, have quit the class because of this +1 suggestion that wasn't fully thought out. I would only ask you don't do it again, or keep your comments limited to your own class. Correspondants should not be getting other classes ruined.
You've done this twice now that I personally know of. Once with the cure fiasco, and now this. I am no longer a CM, so don't care, but if I was I'd be outraged at how you continue to nerf CMs as a Doc correspondant.
jfergie wrote:
I suppose there is. I personally still don't understand why +1 was offered as a suggestion over just clearing states on incap to fix the incap dance, but I'll chalk it up to a difference of opinion.
I guess I wasn't clear on the matter in my previous post. My appologies. The +1 was not the only option offered at the time. I don't know if somebody told you it was, or if you are looking to vent.
I will say this though. Anyone that is a correspondant for a profession is obviously going to a lot of effort and making some person sacrifices in order to make the game better in theory. With that in mind, remember your voice carries much more weight than a normal poster, and you should strive to hold yourself to a much higher standard.
Agreed. In fact, I think that this should be inherently understood, shouldn't it? Are you implying by stating it here that one or more of the correspondents are not? As an aside, it is not when speaking as a single player when a correspondent's voice carries more weight than a single poster. It is when that correspondent speaks as someone who has reviewed and summmerized the reactions on a whole community, not just their own, and not just the majority of the community. Also, no matter what single posters or correspondents say in any forum, there is always the huge possibility that the devs are going to do what they want anyways.
I, along with several other posters that I have read, have quit the class because of this +1 suggestion that wasn't fully thought out. I would only ask you don't do it again, or keep your comments limited to your own class. Correspondants should not be getting other classes ruined.
1. I'm sorry you quit. I'm sorry the others quit.
2. I'm sorry that with your excellent foresight you did not point out this possibility with the +1 cap that rest of us did not see.
3. I think Zarlor is an excellent correspondent. I ask him to comment on anything he thinks is important because I think he has excellent insight and has a good grasp of how Doctors , Medics, and Combat Medics feel on medical issues.
You've done this twice now that I personally know of. Once with the cure fiasco, and now this. I am no longer a CM, so don't care, but if I was I'd be outraged at how you continue to nerf CMs as a Doc correspondant.
Now you're just being silly. Zarlor is not setting out to nerf Combat Medicine. If you think somebody is setting out to nerf Combat Medicine, why don't you let me know and I will look into it. When I retire, let the next correspondent know and they too will look into it. I am a Combat Medic, first and foremost. I suggest that I and the other combat medics are smart enough to know when to become outraged and when not to.
This matter is water under the bridge, spilt milk not worth crying over, etc. I am waiting to see what the Devs say about the +1 DoT cap with the response to the top 5 list. Anything said about the matter right now that is not constructive does not help in any matter. Anybody who feels any burning need to do something please try to be constructive.
Eddited because i can't type bywayne uot of a wet paper bag.
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 12-08-2003 10:35 PM
> this possibility with the +1 cap that rest of us did not see.
The flaws (especially reducing relevance of poisons in PvP) HAS been pointed out IMMEDIATLY in the first thread the proposal showed up:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8800
Note:
> if ability for us to incap is removed, then there will be no benefit
> for us to PvP because everyone will DB us first, then deal with our
> DoTs
Also note that there were several great proposals there, and considerations for regenerations, for example:
> Part 1: Poisons take you to 1 health (Zarlor) and keeps you there
> against regen/stim heals (unless you can outheal it)
>> You've done this twice now that I personally know of. Once with the
>> cure fiasco, and now this. I am no longer a CM, so don't care, but if
>> I was I'd be outraged at how you continue to nerf CMs as a Doc
>> correspondant.
> Now you're just being silly. Zarlor is not setting out to nerf Combat Medicine.
Zarlor is not setting up to nerf CMs, and I am poistive he does not have any malice towards CMs. He is GREAT doctor correspondent.
HOWEVER he made some suggestions (+1 DoT and strengthening of cures) that were NOT in best CMs interests (and pointed out as SUCH), BUT were on COMBAT MEDIC list of issues.
Now in:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8779
>> The issue is that they Cure B will be so good as to heal Poison C in
>> one shot, and then novice doctor (with 2 in the proper line to get the
>> skill) will be able to remove any poison in one application.
Doctor Correspondent: If that happens, count me in on the bandwagon screaming for a fix.
And in:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=9244
Doctor Correspondent: Actually, if you could show me that Cure Bs were doing something like curing Poison Cs, yeah I WOULD put that on the list
That happened.
2002 in doctor line can cure poison C packs from master CM.
Will doctor correspondent add it as issue on the doctor list?
MichaelF77 wrote:
Zarlor is not setting up to nerf CMs, and I am poistive he does not have any malice towards CMs. He is GREAT doctor correspondent.
HOWEVER he made some suggestions (+1 DoT and strengthening of cures) that were NOT in best CMs interests (and pointed out as SUCH), BUT were on COMBAT MEDIC list of issues.
It was on the list because the CMs put it on the list. *I*, personally, added absolutely NOTHING to that list that was voted on and sent. That issue was NOT in the Top 5 for the CM list and was therefore not sent on with that Top 5 list to the Devs. This change was already in the works BEFORE I sent that list. That issue on the Doctor list wasNEVER in the Top 5 onour list and was never sent to the Devs there, either. Quite frankly I had diddley squat to do with the cure posion changes. The Dev wanted to make the changes and it had nothing to do with any list I sent to him, because none of the ones I sent had that issue on it because it was never a Top 5. I sure as Hell never pushed the issue and only was involved in the process on the Corre forum because the Dev specifically stated he was making that change and I specifically brought up the imbalance I saw once I was able to test the change. In other words once it was shown that a B cure had the capability of negating a C poison in 1 shot, I was against it and made my reservations known.
Now in:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8779
>> The issue is that they Cure B will be so good as to heal Poison C in
>> one shot, and then novice doctor (with 2 in the proper line to get the
>> skill) will be able to remove any poison in one application.
Doctor Correspondent: If that happens, count me in on the bandwagon screaming for a fix.
And in:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=9244
Doctor Correspondent: Actually, if you could show me that Cure Bs were doing something like curing Poison Cs, yeah I WOULD put that on the list
That happened.
2002 in doctor line can cure poison C packs from master CM.
Will doctor correspondent add it as issue on the doctor list?
I do support and have supported that issue to be on the CM list. (That's right, CM list, not Doctor list because it ain't a Doctor issue and the Doctor's haven't brought the issue up. I won't add an issue that does not have support over there as that would be pushing a personal agenda and exactly what I keep telling you guys I'm not doing, despite the fact that a few of you just want to refuse to believe it in order to be able to point a finger somewhere.) I posted in the threads you created on the topic after the change and I posted with my own observations with Kavedawg on that change when it hit TC. *I* brought up what I felt was an imbalance with the change when it was on TC with our Dev. He chose not to change it. You can ask Pahdbacca if he can get permission to post the Dev response and reasoning from there so you'll know what he said, but that's the best I can offer.
Once all is said and done, neither of those changes would have ever gone in in the form they went in if my word actually carried any weight at all with the Devs. You guys just credit me for a lot more than is even close to what a Corre can do.
Message Edited by Zarlor on 12-10-2003 09:52 AM
MichaelF77 wrote:
Zarlor is not setting up to nerf CMs, and I am poistive he does not have any malice towards CMs. He is GREAT doctor correspondent.
HOWEVER he made some suggestions (+1 DoT and strengthening of cures) that were NOT in best CMs interests (and pointed out as SUCH), BUT were on COMBAT MEDIC list of issues.
Well I guess I am big fat lier for saying I'll try to stay off this forum.
The way I see it, it is pretty amazing how anyone can say Zarlor did anything BUT been more than fair toward CM while he was temporary CM corr.
Let see. CM cause poison/disease. Doctors cure them. As Doctor corr he is supposed to push to make sure that happen. As CM corr he is to make sure that it only happen within reason.
When Dev fixed CM poison with first big patch, they really kicked it up a notch. It was more apparant since it were not affected by 75% reduction. Yes I know all about it being only offensive skills CM have and it is beside the point for this discussion.
If you research back during that time you will see that almost everyone and their grandmum were calling for CM nurf. There were daily thread hundreds of post long asking Dev to nurf CM back to stoneage, and we kept it up day after day for weeks. MONTHS.
All the while we also pushed for huge cure buff in doctor forum, making it 10x better, lowering med usage so anyone with novice medic can use it, etc, etc.
But that didn't go very far in doctor forum cause SOMEBODY pointed out that it would just simply break the CM period. And people listen cause he made sense (much to my dismay)
I don't know for sure but we were }this{ close to getting CM royally nurfed when this +1 incap thing got put in AND on top of that somehow CM got mind heal.
Now I am not saying Zarlor gave it to CM instead of Doctors, but I'm willing to bet case of beer that if he weren't CM corr when mind heal idea was thrown around, and fooled Dev into thinking that CM were some kind of healing profession need of more healing stuff, I am sure it would have been given to Doctor for sure.
So you should bless your purty little lucky stars you got him as your temp Corr when you did cause I'm pretty sure that was all that saved CM profession when we had CM on our crosshair.
> brought the issue up. I won't add an issue that does not have support over there
1(ONE) DOCTOR posted on CM forum asking for better cures - then another DOCTOR who was CM correspondent at the time put it on the CM ISSUES LIST.
I asked if 1(ONE) CM will post on Doctor forum asking for cure poison reduction - will you
be fare and put it on the Doctor Issues list - you said if it will be a problem then YES.
To be continued on Doctor forum...
Look. The CM list wasn't mine to make at the time. YOU guys asked for me to compile a list. Compile is all I did. For Docs I read the forum and make the lists baesd on issues with support. Cms were out of a Corre with no replacement in site. So i left it up to other CMs to make the lists. I didn't double-check them and I did't chyeck what other skilsl folks had (and for the record HoTron-rex WAS a CM at the time, so her voice had as much validity as any other CM, irregardless of her other professions, or should we discount your voice for any other professions you have?)
However, the whole friggin point is moot!
The decision to do that was made before that list ever got to a Dev! In fact THAT issue was never on any list that made it to a dev. It was not a Top 5 issue!
You guys just wanted to assume becasue it was on the list somwhere that you had to point fingers and put blame on me, for some stupid reason, as if I orchestrated and pushed for the change.
I didn't. As I keep mentioning I pushed for it to be properly balanced and my testing on TC, when it got there, showed that it was NOT properly balanced, IMHO. I pushed that issue to our Dev that I thought it was NOT properly balanced. I agreed with you! I still do! Why do you refuse to see that? I even pushed the issue with our Dev.
I just DO NOT have the power to make him change his mind on the decision and it was never me who asked him to make the decision in the first place. He has not changed the relative powers of cures and poisons and nothing I said made him reconsider. That's just the way it is.
How can I be any clearer on this?
MichaelF77 wrote:
I asked if 1(ONE) CM will post on Doctor forum asking for cure poison reduction - will you
be fare and put it on the Doctor Issues list - you said if it will be a problem then YES.
To be continued on Doctor forum...
BTW, the post in question with my respojnse was not the unequivocal YES you appear to make it it was as follows:
"Actually, if you could show me that Cure Bs were doing something like curing Poison Cs, yeah I WOULD put that on the list if a couple of other people would respond in the thread to back up the claim. I'm not at all above accepting that corrections may need to be made in whatever profession to keep things balanced.
Where that issue would go on the list would then depend on the vote, though. So if only 2 people vote for it as their #10 issue, it's going to stay near the bottom of the list."
The "list" in question would be the CM list, not the Doctor list. We were discussing at the time this issue being on the CM list. I have never backed down from that position nor did I go against my word. The only deal now is that someone else has responsibility for the CM list, not me. So I cannot position things on the CM list like I would have been able to do at the time of those posts.
I did push for the change to go back for as long as I was helping out on the CM side, actually longer since I pushed a final time even after Kavedawg was taken on. This issue is the responsibility and purview of the Cm Correspondent, not mine. The fact that I even pushed on the issue after a CM Corre was chosen is already 3 steps more than I should have done on the issue because I had no right to continue following up on it. It was up to Kavedawg to do so then. However we had gotten a response from our Dev but never got persmission to post it. In effect the issue has all but died and other CMs haven't been supportive of resurrecting it. I'm all for resurrecting it, though. Let me go back and make sure to check my vote on the Balance list Pahd posted and request this one be put in. I've just long sinceforgotten about the issue and if the issue is not on the list and I hadn't voted for it, that was a definitive oversight on my part that I will be more than happy to correct.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=9244
> Again please understand it's not an attack on HoT, or Zarlor, but think
> of it this way: if I pick up novice doctor, come to Doctor forum and
> post on the current issue list a request to make CM diseases hit harder
> to be on par with cure disease packs, would it be included in the
> Doctor list ?
Note - DOCTOR FORUM, DOCTOR LIST.
Here is what you (Zarlor) replied:
> Actually, if you could show me that Cure Bs were doing something like
> curing Poison Cs, yeah I WOULD put that on the list if a couple of
> other people would respond in the thread to back up the claim.
At the moment I am leveling doctor to build a good case with concrete numbers - but preliminary results are showing what people dabbling in Doctor know but won't admit - Cure Poison is severly overpowered compared to Poisons. Doctor 2002 can easily remove Master CM poison.
I will try real hard to get all details before weekend, they will be posted in Doctor Forum - as I beleive it to be doctor issue (cures too strong).
Yeah. Either way would actually work for me. It IS a balance issue. But 1 post by itself won't do it, it'll have to get support. Of which I would be one to provide support. Likely you will find others who would support it as well, at least those who believe that we really should be abalnced out in both professions. If it gets that support I'll add it to the list.
There's only 1 caveat. Come Monday the list won;t be mind anymore. I'll be moving over to being the Medic Correspondnet and Traigus will be taking over as Doc. I'm not certain what methods he'll be using when taking over the list, but if the support is there before then I'll put it on.