Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Poison can now be cured with TUMS!
When did Chemical Warfare become a "support" weapon? I thought it was supposed to be considered a weapon of mass destruction and death.
Kumi
Master Combat Griefer (thanks devs)
Server: Gorath
Mabey a simpler fix would be the following:
1: Undo +1 Cap change
2: Limit all DOT durations to 9:59 secs.
What do you guys think about that? i know i would really mind having to throw an additonal poison every 10 mins, to keep it on my target, and this would solve the incap dance issue - but still let DOTs incap their targets, as well as solve the problem where people are dieing from DOT's which shouldn't happen.
Any thoughts?
HOW COME COMMANDO FLAME DOT INCAPPS?!?!?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am of the thought here, that this IS a combat class. And such that it should have some teeth to it.
Poison and disease in the warfare sense are NO JOKE! Believe me, there are some real nasty toxins and bio agents out there that if you get em, you die.
But SOE thinks death is too severe, OK fine, this is a game so I will buy that.
I think having them poison/disease subside, or reduce effectiveness for strong ones,after incap is a fair tradeoff to stopping at +1.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, im fully in agreement with you, nobody ever lived through ebola, and very few through smallpox until a vaccination was invented, and if i had my way, all dots would incap and kill a person if they were doo dumb to go up against a CM without skill tapes or at least finding out if there are any docs in the city that would fix tham afterwards. But we have to bend a bit, because of all the stupid people out there who wouldn't know what a tactic was if it drove a businto them at 120km/h.
However, we are sverly gimped now because our main weapon doesnt even incap, which is just plain ridiculoous, and im of the view, that if a solution is put into place to fix this issue, it should apply to all DOT's not just our poisions/diseases. which is why i think my suggestion might be good. capping the max duration to 10 mins (including the time they are laying on the groud incapped) I think would be good, as it would let us incap, there would be no incap dance problem, they would incap 2 times from the DOT max, and it would kill the person too.
Oh, and the reason the flamethrower currently incaps for the person askin, its an oversight by the devs, the flames cause enough wounds damage as well as HAM damage, at the same time to incap (they are incapping because of the wounds they get at the same time as the HAM damage, and the system doesn't take into account that the wounds will make the person lose HAM as well) so i think they'll fix that soon. Its similiar to the way we can still incap with a poision and a disease on the same stat, the disease/wound damage causes them to incap, not the HAM damage directly caused by the poisions/flames.
Okay maybe I'm just repeating something that's been said many times before.... but from the explaination of the "incap dance" I'm seeing a resembalance to the Commando's flame.... Seems to be you can get incapped 3 times in 10 minutes from a flame burn easily.... What was itsomeone said about the 3 incapfrom a DOT? "a Big no-no" Whatever.... Maybe an easy way to get around this loot item problem would be to make the initial blow of the poison do +1 dmgto whatever stat it will be ticking on.... Like getting hit in the head with a baseball... That way if you don't hit the creature any more after throwing you'll still get the loot? Stupid? I dunno just a suggestion.
Anyway I would aggree with the no incapfix being stupid as well.... If I eat a salad with rat poison for crutons will I die? Probably... yes.. unless a doctor can heal me quick enough. 
NaNoDeMoN said:
Mabey a simpler fix would be the following:
1: Undo +1 Cap change
2: Limit all DOT durations to 9:59 secs.
Nice idea but a little problem... Lets say I incap at 10:00. Then I get up at 10:02. Incap again at 10:03. Get up at 10:05. Incap again at 10:06... That wouldmean the poisons been tickingfor 7 mins or so depending on how long it took to incap the first time.
we are not a combat class... we are support class..
can any 'combat class' heal themselves with only their skill line? no.
if we can heal otherselves n other as effectively as we do, we should not be able to deal the damage a normal combat class does.if we did then wut's the purpose of a pure combat class?
we can help soften the targets before our combat class teammates gets in the fight.
we can pick up a combat class skill and do more dmg.
as of right now. +1 incap doesn't solve any problems but creates a whole lot more.
Zarlor wrote:
The Dev team decided to go only with the basic form of this even though my personal reccomendation was that I felt the initial idea was too simple and something more should probably be done with it.
Pahdbacca is also pushing away on this issue with all of the other ides that Kavedawg picked up fromt he CMs on ways in which the no-incap rule is problematic for DoTs and some suggestions to modify it so that it still is available to fix the things it was meant to fix (and has, such as the incap dance and loot/corpse rights) while providing the added functionality from posions that we need.
I would personally recommend only giving the devs suggestions which truly fix problems, or give them the solution in full. Not sure what additional functionality we got from the poisons, though I am sure you are correct;I stopped playing after that nerf. I am not sure why it wasn't recommended and implemented this way:
1. Any mob/player killed by a poison gives looting rights to whomever apllied the poison.
2. An incap clears all states (poisons, stun, dizzy, everything) to prevent the incap dance.
Seems to me that would have solved the problems and made more people happy than the current implementation. As I said, it is a moot point to me now. I quit that account shortly after the nerf. I happened to be passing by to another board (I am still playing a different non-CM account), and thought I'd drop by and see what was going on with CMs.
/wave
I won't be reactivating my CM account, but hope they undo this nerf and fix it correctly for all of you CMs! Take care.
Bully for you! I am please that you have such incredible insight as to see and know a full solution when you see one and never miss those "unforseen" repercussions. Congrats!
jfergie wrote:
I would personally recommend only giving the devs suggestions which truly fix problems, or give them the solution in full.
+
biwan: = 
+ 
Zarlor wrote:
Bully for you! I am please that you have such incredible insight as to see and know a full solution when you see one and never miss those "unforseen" repercussions. Congrats!
jfergie wrote:
I would personally recommend only giving the devs suggestions which truly fix problems, or give them the solution in full.
People will always complain no matter what, no reason to bother with them. However I still see the +1 nerf as needed because a Master Doc/CM should NOT be the ultimate pvp class which it was. I have as much as a support role as ever. CMs are also the only way to truely win a fight as people wont come back with 3/4s of their mind as wounded. Also to the people saying how commando/whoever should notincap too on their dot, this was how it was suppossed to be, but some of the coding with wounds(I guess similiar to why disease +poison will incap)made it to where they will go down after all. Anyway, commandos are a joke with any sort of buffs atm since you only take your base stats as max wounds. I fear a CM more than a commando currently.
ShockcOre wrote:
Nice idea but a little problem... Lets say I incap at 10:00. Then I get up at 10:02. Incap again at 10:03. Get up at 10:05. Incap again at 10:06... That wouldmean the poisons been tickingfor 7 mins or so depending on how long it took to incap the first time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh good point. True that would still incap 3 times, which is not good.
I also like the solution put forward to remove the state after the first incap, however i don't think it should be ALL the states that are removed, as that would open up and exploit in that, if you get diseased/stunned/whatever, all you would need to do is get poisioned to get them removed, and that would not be good for the doctor profession.
Mabey the alternative would be to only remove all damage dealing DOT's from the stat that was reduced to 0. IE: if your have both poision and flames on action, and you incap, they both get removed, however if you have poision on mind, and flames on health, for emaple, and you incap from mind, the only the poision is removed, flames stay as the other stat was not the cause of the incap. in this case, the person would only die from incapping from the DOT's if they had them on 3 stats, and i think thats fair enough - you manage to get DOT's on 3 stats, u probably deserve a trip to the cloning centre to think about what you just did!
This would also mean, docs would not be put out of business by CM's applying poisions to people to remove diseases and other stats from them.
What do you guys think?
Kylst - Master Doc, Master CM- Valcyn galaxy
A couple of things I'd like to say on this subject. The first is that it is very hard to anticipate consequences of changes made in SWG. Many of the canges put into game have unforseen consequences. And that is the problem. There is a reason the phrase 'hindisght is 20/20' has been around for so long. Closely related to this fact (and maybe it pops in my head quickly because I like the Detroit Lions) is thre is also a reason the phrase 'Monday morning quarterback' has been around for so long. It is a lot harder to see problems ahead of time than it is to look back, smack your forehead and say 'we should have seen that one coming.' If this has never happened to you, then either you've got my vote for president or you need to leave the house more often.
I worked hard to do research on how these changes came about whenI became correspondent and this is whatI found.
1. Zarlor posted many options for the DoT incap problem. He also posted the link discussing changes and solutions in this forum.
2. The Devs asked directly if anybody saw any problems with the +1 Ham cap. Nobody anticipated that it would be this big of a problem at the time.
3. AFTER the devs decided that they were in favor of the +1 cap, Zarlor still offered modifications and alternatives to the plain Jane +1 cap including the removal of all states after incap. It was still decided that the +1 was the way to go. I will not go into the reasons because i have probably posted more on the subject than I should have already.
The second thing I would like to say is I agree with Zarlor when he says he thinks it is better to offer options than witholding ideas that may lead to possible solutions. A while back I was a senior resident at a teaching hospital associated with a medical school. Part of your responsibilities as a senior resident in that setting is to guide and teach junior residents and medical students while still reporting to the attending doctors. It was my observation that patient care (which I take VERY seriously) was the best when the attendings, residents and students openly discussed treatment options, even if some of those options may not seem the best at the time. Often one of the members lower on the totem pole would give an option that would spark an idea that the more experienced members had not considered before. If everybody keeps their mouth shut for fear of being wrong not only do you miss out on posible solutions, but you also lose the opportunity to learn why some options are better or worse than others.
As for the +1 cap on DoTs... It was number one on the top 5 issue list. Along with it being listed, there were statements made as to why it is not working, and possible alternatives. As long as I am the CM correspondent and the DoT cap is an issue with the CM community, I will keep pressing on TH and the Devs that it is an issue (I do not press an agenda of my own as a correspondent and try to present how the CM community feels on any given issue as a whole.) My suggestion is that you list in one of the voting stickies any possible modification or changes that would help alleviate the incap dance/HAM cap issue as these lists will be presented to the Dev inclusively (meaning all the options, not just the top 5 of each catagory). It is from these lists that i will also generate ideas and issues for the next top 5 list when we get to it.