Combat Medic Archive
Thread: If you want 75% reduction, you should look at these numbers (long post)
MasterLogan wrote:
Yes, it isn't possible without loots, but yes, it is common.
In answer to the second question, no, I'm not a Master Combat Medic currently, I have been in the past and I'm quite sure I know my way around the profession well enough to comment on this.
I have plenty of MCM friends with poisons that tick for well over 900 damage, and they PvP with nothing else. I'll try and find a list of resources used and post it here later today.
I'm not looking to nerf CMs into uselessness, just balance them out a bit to something within reason.
MasterLogan,
For your information, the 75% reduction nerf cry has been around a lot longer than venom poisons have been. I have never gotten loot to create one of these poison packs, nor have I even bothered to go and get them. Am I gimped because of this? Maybe, but I am also of the opinion that either venom drops should be nerfed, or the damage on these poisons greatly reduced.
Regardless of that, it takes a loot to create those types of poisons, a loot that many different combat medics are going to be after. One that also limits the availability of those types of poisons, so the 900 tick poison might be common in the circles that you run in, they are not the norm on every server.
I have to agree with Pahdacca, that basing a nerf on the very RECENT appearance of a loot item is not the way to balance a class. You have to take a look at the base damage a CM can perform and balance from there. If you have a problem with the items made from a loot drop, balance that item. Remember pre-nerf FWG5's?When Krayt tissue could make them overly powerful, well there you go. SOE did not nerf pistoleers because a few people were able to get these powerful weapons, they nerfed the weapons.
MasterLogan wrote:
Lets see,a really nice crippling shot for 700 damage against a 50% PSG becomes 350, 90% composite reduces it to 35, then synthsteak at 40% reduction reduces it to 21 points of damage.
Hell yea they're out of whack!
I surely can't argue with your math, but you are making an awful lot of assumptions. You're assuming that a significant number of CMs have the time, and are willing to go to the effort to find all those items, and that they have not yet died in the battle, so that all of their buffs and enhancements are still in effect. Under your hypothetical situation of a player with 3600 mind,and even with your hypothetical 900 point ticks, it would take you 40 seconds to reach 0 mind (4 ticks). A lot can happen in 40 seconds.
In any case, it soundslike you're saying that CMs are fine the way they are, and that armor, BE enhanced food, buffs, and maybe even the 75% damage reduction, is the problem here. Keep in mind, I don't think CMs are just fine the way they are, but a 75% damage reduction would eliminate them as a useful profession.
"My conclusions are that Combat medic is just about right in terms of damage output"
That may be, but their are other factors to consider. Whenever I see the math done on our DPS, this always comes to mind: After one throw, our DPS ticks down someone's pool no matter if we hide, run out of range, get incapacitated or shott with another weapon that hits that same pool.
A rifleman who shoots my 90% base, 35% stun helmet and X% stun PSG (no fixed number due to shift bug) might miss, I might dodge and a shot that lands gets reduced by any mitigation I have and then the armour and PSG. For his next shot, he has the same hurdles. When I throw a Mind Poison on him, I hit automatically. Then it ticks no matter what happens (excepting a doc). That is the major difference in our DPS examples.
On the other hand, a Doc can turn our best Spider Venom, Rancor Bile, Advanced component Poison into a Zero damage attack, wasting all the effort and loot. That is rather extreme on the other end.
I'd like to see 75% reduction accompanied by two things: no more pause for the throw animation (that has spelled my doom enough in 1 on 1 that I don't use CM unless I am facing buffed and/or groups most of the time), and doubling of CM damage. So the 75% wouldn't be a crippling blow, and our PvE damage output would be competent.
Here's a thought.....does anyone find it odd that our C poisons come out with 130 potency with essentially no experimentation put into potency?
Maybe the easiest solution is to reduce the base potency, so that the best you can do without dedicating experimentation points to potency is 50%. That way, poisons with 100 or greater potency would have lower damage and/or range.
Sorry for the late reply here, been away this weekend.
Just wanted to say, thank you for the metrics. Puts in numbers what we all realized already, 75% reduction would completely negate 1 of our 2 offensive attacks.
I'll be bookmarking and using this as a reference, thanks again 
When confronted with the numbers of what a 75% reduction would do to us, the nerfers always come back with you never miss.
I agree that resistances need some help. I know that at 76 potency, my poison are resisted almost 50% of the time. But when they get to 100 potency they rarely miss.
I think the problem is with resistance. Up the resistance a little, and make foods work and it will be better.
People are too used to being able to go up against many people at once and survive because of extremely overpowered defensive measures: Armor that resists almost all damage completely, buffs that make a player all but immortal, booze that makes you smarter...
Then they see a Combat Medic. Sure, the people that are fighting against the CM are stupid enough to stand close to each other and they all deserve to be poisoned... but that Combat Medic did something that their uber defenses didn't stop!
To the whiners... you are admitting that it takes a CM to bring down groups in GCW fights... so why bother US? Go whine at the Chefs and the Armorsmiths for making everyone immortal to everything except for Combat Medics...
People say that Combat Medics take all the fun out of a fight... is it REALLY that fun to sit and fight the same guy for 20 minutes because he regens faster than you do damage?
When I run my guild's tournaments, I do not allow armor or buffs... and the fights are not instant, people dodge and parry and whatnot for quite a while even then...
People complain to Combat Medics for the same reason every single profession asks for a stun weapon... ARMOR IS OVERPOWERED. So please... stop whining at the Combat Medics and go whine at the Armorsmiths for requiring CMs in full-scale battles... or just convince people not to wear armor.
DarkNexus1014 wrote:
People are too used to being able to go up against many people at once and survive because of extremely overpowered defensive measures: Armor that resists almost all damage completely, buffs that make a player all but immortal, booze that makes you smarter...
Then they see a Combat Medic. Sure, the people that are fighting against the CM are stupid enough to stand close to each other and they all deserve to be poisoned... but that Combat Medic did something that their uber defenses didn't stop!
To the whiners... you are admitting that it takes a CM to bring down groups in GCW fights... so why bother US? Go whine at the Chefs and the Armorsmiths for making everyone immortal to everything except for Combat Medics...
People say that Combat Medics take all the fun out of a fight... is it REALLY that fun to sit and fight the same guy for 20 minutes because he regens faster than you do damage?
When I run my guild's tournaments, I do not allow armor or buffs... and the fights are not instant, people dodge and parry and whatnot for quite a while even then...
People complain to Combat Medics for the same reason every single profession asks for a stun weapon... ARMOR IS OVERPOWERED. So please... stop whining at the Combat Medics and go whine at the Armorsmiths for requiring CMs in full-scale battles... or just convince people not to wear armor.
You know I had not thought of it this way, but you are correct on so many levels.
I saw this in many other games as well. If someone gets the edge over another player because they might have a little better armor, or a little better buff, then that "little better" becomes the norm. We get ourselves in this never ending spiral that we have to have better and better and better.
The CM is the counter to the "betters" we are the one thing that no matter how good your armor is, your buffs are, your food is, we are still going to be able to effect you in some fashion.
So you have the choice, buff your mind that extra 500 points, or eat some food that helps you resist poison.
Sounds logical to me.