Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic Fix
Adune wrote:
MichaelF77 wrote:
600 a tick poison over 4 seconds - 125dps>
times 10 people that got hit = 1250 DPS.
Now think of it on a shot by shot basis: Poison lasts for what, 1 minute? 2 mins? I've never actually timed it. 60 seconds x 1250 dps=75,000 damage from 1 attack.
Show me an attack from another class that can deal that much damage. Don't pull out the DPS argument unless you're prepared to take it full circle.
I KNOW that I add a tremendous amount of damage to a raid. I can run up to 80m, throw, hit 10-20 people, run out. Even though I'm in safety, I'm still dealing really good damage. Even if you kill me, that damage still ticks.
It's why we're so broken in base defense. Clone at the center, go into the base that's been taken. Target an enemy. /declare, toss area poison, then area disease from high damage, lower range packs. Get killed. Clone. Come back to see 80% of the people at 1 mind, or incapped. The TK's & docs make it out, and a few people that get cured. Those that got cured generally took a tick of the poison or two, and have little to no mind. You roll in with 5-10 buffed people, and the base is yours again. They have a lot of docs curing? Send 2-3 CM's to do it in waves. Nobody can handle getting AE poisoned & diseased every 30 seconds non stop. With a cloning centre next to a base & 3 CM's, you can do that. Heh, and there's not a **edit** thing you can do to stop it.
As for the guy wanting 80m packs: Go make them. It's not especially hard. Decent resources+12 points=good packs. This was made less than 2 weeks ago, when our last run was done. I haven't done any since, but I haven't heard anything about it being nerfed since then.
Mind Area Poison Delivery Unit - C
Potency 122, Effectiveness 214, Range 40 (80m throw range at master), Area effected, 28, CM use 90.
For single targets, I'm using 112 Potency, 239 Eff, 44 Range (88m throw) 59 Med use.
This last run was really good. Stop acting like over 65m is hard to make though.
heya adune wanna borrow some of mine:
single 320 effect 112 pot 40 range
area 230 effect 112 pot 40 range 30 ae
BoozeFienD wrote:
Argh! Poison / disease combos DO incapp. And they degrade per tic, so if you get incapped by them, you'll be down on the ground for a long time.
That's a bug, it's supposed to be fixed. Anything else you want to complain about?
"don't compair yourselves to rifle, they are overpowered too"
"TKA is overpowered"
"CM is overpowered"
i am beginning now, to see that the old quote running around here is true. if a player ofelite combat profession was defeated in combat by a chef with a fish, that player would start a cry to nerf the fish...
AcidRaineV wrote:
Adune:
Do you guys honestly even believe your own answers? Or do you all play your CM's piss poorly?
I think you're just upset that you are piss poor at killing CMs. I used to have a problem with them. I put my docs through a few quick training excersices. (Poisonmy whole groupand try to get your 2 or 3 docs to run around curing them before anyone ticks) I even assigned each soldier to a particular doc that watches them for poison/disease. The soldier knows who to run to and the doc knows who to heal. Now none of my guys have a problem with them. It's a tactic just like everything else and just because either a.) You fight with the same group every time and yall suck at taking out CMs or b.) you just get in pickup PvP, doesn't mean you have to come here and blame our "pat answers" on your inefficiencies. Get out there and practice a little more and find something new to whine about.
this paragraph written by AcidRaineV is FAR more information than i would have ever given out as far as tactics go BUT it is brilliant in its presentation and shows how putting some thought and effort into your battles will change the tides.
all of the nerf posts seem to assume that the group that they are attacking have no combat medics of their own. shame on them if they do not. no group should be without all the professions...ALL of them. each has its place and funtion. i am NOT saying throw your master artisan on the front lines, but use each class to its fullest, or lose.
if your group cannot get as organized as AcidRaineV's obviously is, then find a new group
RhenGordon wrote:Adune,
Once again the range argument gets thrown out there... It is being fixed GET OVER IT.
80m has been in game since they made the advanced components work. Nothing has been done. For everything you say about it being fixed, I haven't seen any evidence that says it's getting fixed anytime soon. My PA has hundreds of 35-44m base AE bomb (70-88m throw at master) in storage. Even if this gets nerfed, we've got enough to keep wasting people for the next 3 months +.
Similarly, people say the combat revamp will solve all these issues, but I don't see any combat revamp coming soon. In the HERE AND NOW, GCW PvP is completely stupid. Bria used to have a TON of GCW base fighting going on. Now, nobody has placed a new base in oh, 3 weeks+. Existing ones slowly get destroyed, and nobody puts up new ones. There's no point, CM's make base defense/attacking stupid.
Yeah, so we abused it too. I have a CM/Doc alt for base raids (Not that they happen anymore) and a good chunk of the guild is playing Riflemen, or defense stacking builds. You do what you have to, in order to win. That doesn't mean we don't think it's unfair, and needs to be changed NOW, not in 4 months.
Saying I should shut up because this might get fixed sometime in the next 4 months is idiotic. That's like telling an orphan in a war zone to stop complaining, because the UN will come in & maintain the peace in 6 months. In the meantime, he's living in hellish conditions.
Well, in the meantime here, PvP has died.
this paragraph written by AcidRaineV is FAR more information than i would have ever given out as far as tactics go BUT it is brilliant in its presentation and shows how putting some thought and effort into your battles will change the tides.
We did it like this when we hit bases, and it was extremely effective, but then again, we never came up against a truly competent enemy force IMO.
We setup a rear base, with a ranger camp, our main attack force, assigned revivers & buffers. BH/Rangers with player track guard the rear & flanks from any CM's that try to sneak in & bomb the camp.
We then setup "trenches". Players with free lots will drop heavy gas harvesters to give our forward teams line of sight cover. Forward teams consist of Riflemen/TK's, and CM/Docs with groupmembers that have master doc for the 30m player drag. Our forward teams move up under cover, to get within 80m of the closest enemy players to bomb them. After bombing, we go back into cover. The Riflemen then take out anyone that advances on us. If any of our forward members get incapped or killed, the drag teams take them to base camp where they're revived & buffed. If they send CM's on us, everyone in the forward teams can cure themselves, or med off the poison/dis. The only effective way to stop CM's is to have every player able to cure themselves. Lag+limited cure range makes doc cures minimally effective in a large, pitched battle.
Eventually, we drive the enemy players into their base. At that point, it's game over. We launch wave after wave of mind poison/disease on the base until they're all incapped. A doc inside a base can't do jack to cure 4 CM's constantly AEing. He can only cure himself so many times before going out of mind. The only ones to survive are the TK's. You head in, incap the TK's, & leave everyone else. Slice terms, and it's game over.
Extrordainary amount of effort, isn't it? All because of one class. Combat Medic. Combat Medics on our side (Go me) are the overwhelming offensive force. Combat Medics on their side are THE SINGLE reason for the advanced defensive attack position.
Everyone that isn't a Doc, CM, or Rifleman sits around doing nothing. If they enter the battle full scale, all they do is hurt us, because it gives their CM's additional targets to throw AE's on.
THIS IS NOT BALANCE. IT IS NOT FUN. It is not reasonable for one single SUPPORT class (CM for the slow folks here) to make having a large variety of elite combat professions a waste of space.
It's more than the range issues. It's more than the poison/disease incap bug. They only make the problem worse. You could fix those two bugs, and CM's would still dictate tactics for large scale battles. Max potency needs to go WAY down. Defenses to poison/disease need to be implemented. Chef should help here. Proportionally, cures need to be able to counter AE's. I'm a fan of giving CM's a PB AE full cure. (Poison + Disease in one AE shot) CM healing power needs to be seriously beefed up. Ranged stims should be the ones with the 80m range, not poison/disease. Give Ranged stims a small mind healing component to them as well. Reduce the wounds dealt by mind heal by a factor of 4. FIX LINE OF SIGHT ON AE'S.
Bottom line, stop lying about the capabilities of your profession. The only ones I see being honest about their capabilities are those that just play CM as flavour of the month. The "true" CM's here seem content to attempt to bury the imbalances in the class, and have focused their attention on avoiding nerfs, rather than fixing the class & making it viable.
Every time I see a Master CM say things like:
"Poison doesn't incap"--You know good & well that poison+disease=incap, and are simply misinforming people.
"Just bring a doctor along to cure"--Multiple doctors can't adequately counter a single CM due to the AE vs single target cure factor. You know this, you take advantage of it every time you go into PvP.
"Just avoid the CM"--You also know that AE's ignore line of sight. You know that you only need one legal target to hit an entire base of people. When you say this, you're just lying to misinform people. You can't avoid someone that can throw farther than you can shoot.
"Just kill the CM"--You know that you can throw farther than people can shoot. Killing a smart CM isn't all that easy, and you KNOW that you. Even if you die, you that your death meant that a large group of people got hit with poison & disease in return. Then you clone/get revived, and keep doing it. Death is meaningless to a CM. I don't carry a weapon, or any armor. Cure packs, buff packs, stims, & AE & single target bombs. So I die, big deal, I'm back in action in 60 seconds. When I kill a group of combat professions tho, it means they're coming back with no buffs, decayed armor, and mind wounds. I can clone as many times as it takes. If they did that, they'd walk away with 0% armor.
These are the common pieces of disinformation spread by MCM's that would rather cloak the problems in ignorance rather than have them fixed, and improve the piss poor healing element of their class & make them USEFUL AND BALANCED rather than grossly overpowered & misunderstood.
Cheers.
Odds are that it's the Mind Pool. Now, if Mind Pool Damage Healing were as easily done as Health and Action Pool Damage healing, would you still be whining? Would most of those crying nerf against the CMs still be whining if CMs were targeting Health and Action? Most likely not.
Hate to break it to you, but the reason folks say to look for the Combat Revamp is because any changes made now will simply mean more work down the line for the Revamp. Why? Because those changes will need to be undone before the profession can truly be rebalanced with all the rest. It will be at that time when Mind Healing will most likely be widely reintroduced due to the fact the xp exploitive nature of Healers chain healing each other for xp will be gone. Once mind healing is reimplemented like it should be, there will be no reason to cry nerf of CMs.
Yes, there needs to be better curative and preventative abilities in-game for poisons and diseases. But that lack is NOT the fault of CMs and can not be attributed to them and used as a reasoning for nerf crying.
Doctors, the counter to CMs, need their curative abilities increased in the form of quantity vs quality. Some have asked for an PB AE cure for Doctors, others have suggested innoculations which works similar to buffs. Some have suggested Chef Consumables that will counter or totally negate poisons and diseases. Some have stated that armoursmiths should get new types of armour or new armour layers that can provide resistance to poison and diseases. These are all valid ideas that should be discussed.
But, their lack of implementation is not the fault of CM as a profession.
The fact that doctors aren't around to cure poison or disease isn't the CMs fault, it's the Combat Types fault for not heeding Docs warnings long ago about respect and payment for services rendered. Most docs have gone into hiding and that is the fault of Combat Types, not CMs.The fact that Doctors can't keep up with curing isn't the fault of CMs, that's a lack of forsight on the part of the Devs to truly balance the 'Counter' nature of the Doctor Profession.
The fact that Chef foods don't currently effect poisons or diseases isn't the fault of CMs. It's the fault of the devs for not implementing anything of that nature.
The fact that armoursmiths can't create effect resistance armours for poison and disease is the fault of the developers for not implementing that ability within the armoursmith profession.
All of these ideas would help limit the effectiveness of the poisons and diseases and level the playing field a bit, but NONE are as a result of the profession being overpowered.
You want a change, ask for a change. Ask to have other professions ramped up. Don't automatically cry for a nerf. It's sad, it's shortsighted, and it's the last refuge of the troll.
Message Edited by vortexala on 02-04-2004 11:04 AM
"Death is meaningless to a CM. I don't carry a weapon, or any armor. Cure packs, buff packs, stims, & AE & single target bombs. So I die, big deal..."
yet you want to call Combat Medic a support class. i understand that it was presented as such in the beginning, but it turns out that it is a viable combat class when played like you have stated above. if people STOP reffering to COMBAT Medic as a support class, and start calling it a COMBAT class (which it is) would that make you feel any better about the combat abilities of a Combat Medic?
i was too lazy to run back through all the other posts in this thread yet AGAIN to remember if this was posted here, or in another thread but someone wrote:
"Some other guy said it best in another thread.
All these l33t gun dudes spend all they're points on being "combat" professions, and having the "template" and having insane defenses and such. They are perfectly well defended against others who would wield guns against them. But why don't any of them ever consider 4/0/0/0 doctor as a part of they're template?
Anyone with 4/0/0/0 doctor can effectively ignore ANYTHING a CM has for them. An entire combat profession negated by 1 line in doctor. 1 line in doctor and every CM that will see you from there forward will just cry. All the throwing thru walls... stacked poison/disease incap etc..etc.... all done.. gone... not a problem with just 1 line in doctor.
Now tell me what profession in this entire game can be completely immune to the attacks of a commando, like someone can be against a Combat Medic with 4/0/0/0 Doctor."
IF you truly carry no weapon and no armor as you say, a TK/Doc would eat your lunch in 3.2 seconds...but wait... you are not in this alone are you? you have backup. OTHER players causing damage and killing players as well yes? as far as i know (but then, what do i know) Riflemen have the ability to DB from range. that is a pretty nice power to have. (no this is NOT a cry for a nerf of Rifleman)
a group of 4 MCM alone, would have their butts handed to them if they raided a place like Anchorhead. they are just not effective enough in combat to survive. run all you want. a MTK/Master Doc will get his or her hands on you and you will be DONE!!!
BUT, i have seen TWO MTK/Master Docs hold Anchorhead hostage healing and buffing for two hours. the only armor they had were composite helms. (this was on Tempest by the way). i have watched a group of four (two riflemen two bounty hunters) CLEAN OUT Bestine in about 15 minutes and stay for an additional 30 minutes just picking off stragglers (this was on Bloodfin) (no this is NOT a cry for a nerf of TK)
what am i driving at? Combat Medics are about useless by themselves. they are NOT an elite combat class and would get CRUSHED in battle if it were not for the support THEY receive from OTHER players. you are correct, if you, as a group with4-6 combat medics,go up against a force that is not prepaired for the bombing of poison/disease that WILL INCAP they are done, finished, dead before the battle even starts. but try as you might, you will never convince me, (or any other player that has bothered to take a line in the Doc profession) that combat medics ALONE dictate the outcome of a battle.
Unless CM's in the last hour or so since i've logged in have gotten some gun cert and an attack that hits mind then no we can't kill anyone and heal ourselves with one class. Remember, poisons dont incap.
The dude posting before me said CM's cannot take a base by themselves LOL Hence thier role as a SUPPORT class, they are not supposed to but they CAN! What is the first thing that happens 10 seconds into a raid ... poisons of course, they need a nerf plain and simple ... stop lying to yourself.
>> 600 a tick poison over 4 seconds
> times 10 people that got hit = 1250 DPS.
> Now think of it on a shot by shot basis: Poison lasts for what, 1
> minute? 2 mins? I've never actually timed it. 60 seconds x 1250
> dps=75,000 damage from 1 attack.
Minus Doctor that heals 2 people per poison tick ?
> 80m has been in game since they made the advanced components work.
> Nothing has been done. For everything you say about it being fixed, I
> haven't seen any evidence that says it's getting fixed anytime soon.
Read patch notes:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/recent_updates.jsp?o=59956
*Combat medic skill mods can no longer increase the range of medicines beyond 64m.*
It was SUPPOSED to be fixed already, the fact that it's still working - just a bug that has been reported to Devs.
- Combat medic skill mods can no longer increase the range of medicines beyond 64m.
- The maximum experimental range for ranged healing and DoT medicines has been capped at 48m.
- Droids and vehicles are no longer affected by combat medic area of effect poison and disease attacks.
an attempt was made at fixing the range, and another attempt is in the works. let us see what happens after publish 6.
on a side note, i would LOVE to meet the Combat Medics that can take a base BY THEMSELVES! they are players beyond the skill level of anything any of us have ever seen on Bloodfin, Tempest, Kettemoor, and Sunrunner....unless of course the base is being defended by an eniter group of players unable to leave the base, heal themselves or others, with no Doctors at all and no Riflemen, no TKA's, no Bounty Hunters, no Smugglers and no Commandos. in THAT case then YES i can see Combat Medics ALONE winning a battle (on the skermish level)
Lets just take a look shall we?
Combat medic- ranged heal aoe diseases /medicnes mind heal
docter- Ability to increase someones health /action and secondarys by 2k+ heal diseases,rez people, heal poisens, heal almost all states ( dizzy etc. ) err who is in need of a nerf?
Xasma Vaclyn server
