Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Well now that LOS is resolved...
DotU-Ming wrote:
Mind damage is still a huge issue in combat...
Im tired of this argument. Extremely tired. Poison and disease are incredibly easy to counteract. If you dont have a medic capable to heal the aforementioned then you should look at grouping with someone with those abilities or by picking up the necessary skills. I dont feel sorry for those that have to give up other skills to do it either. Do not say this as if we all agree to your statement. I dont. Far from it.
Actually I dont understand how as a doctor u dont see how overpowered mind damage is...
H and A poison and disease are easily counteracted...
mind poison and disease is not...
Doctor cure packs are totally unpowered compared to CM dots and while H and A poisons can be remedied...
Mind poison will almost always incap you...
Mind poison requires the doctor to use mind to cure it...so either way the doctor will be taking a fair amount of mind damage...either from the mind poison, the cost of using the curepoison pack or most likely both. Right now, on azahi there it takes 2-3 applications to cure my level C mind poison...that means u are going to be taking both mind damage from the poison and mind damage from curing urself....if u would like to test this out, please contact me on ahazi and we can test this out...2-3 applications to cure a mind poison means 20-30 secs to do it since self stiming is 10s. hence u will 1) cure poison 2) take the first tick of the mind damage 3)cure poison again 4) take the 2nd tick 5) cure poison again finally curing it
this doesnt even account for the fact that after ur first application of the curepoison i will most likely poison u again...
so even if u do survive one poison enough to cure it u are still almost mind incap from the sheer effort to cure it...and most likely will have it reapplied to you...
if u dont believe me, contact me on the azahi we are on the same server...i will prove this to u...
Gimptacular wrote:
Hydro, I agree on the pvp thing. I dont use poison anymore, I just use my pistoleering. I think that in pve healing situations, especially with lag, a doc can't always get in range, and it's worth the points. Just my opinion.
Pretty much bottom line with this is .. if I need to goto 30M with LoS to poison why bother?
People are telling me to pickup another class.. I do have another class.. carbineer.. so I kd him before I poison him.. why?
I kd a person once I can kill them with my carb before they get back up.. completely taking combat medic out of the loop.
My carbineer class completely renders my combat medic class completely useless (aside from that uber +10 terrain negotiation I got from mastering it)
I'm not saying I can't .. I'm saying I want a reason to spend the points on cm.. getting ranged support 4.. novice marksman and the whole skill tree for combat medic is an aweful lot of skill points just to spend for a ranged heal..
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the LOS "fix". The DPS is much slower than the other combat classes. Yes, I use "other" combat classes, because Combat Medic says "Combat" in it, and when you read the description that SOE gives, it is to be a combat class.
But I digress...
Actually not requiring LOS for poisonsmade you have to use tactics in close quarters (towns), you had to use multiple teams, spread out, useflanking manuevers, and be careful. Yes, mind damage hurts, but like it has been stated, BH and riflemen will drop you way faster than the poison. It added an extra element of tactics to the game that I liked.
Now, the fix? what they should have done is make the "cures" from the Dr. on a 2-3 sec timer. that way, in 10s, you can heal a group of 5, and make the Dr. earn his pay, AND make him needed in combat groups. If your group of 5 gets hit? you "might" lose one or two people to incap, if your Dr. isn't paying attention. But the Dr. has a chance to heal everyone if they are good.
If you just raise the range of the poisons, you go back to the Zerg fest of DAoC, which I would like to stay away from. I have no problem with the BH and Rifleman being able to smoke me in an open environment, if I get caught in the open like that, I deserve to get smacked down. On the other hand, in close quarters, I believe that "lobbing a grenade and getting the heck out of dodge" should have the edge. I don't see the argument that a "Master <insert weapon class here> should be able to smoke a Master Combat Medic". I think that the circumstances of the individual battle should decide that, not just the title.
And I agree with the poster who is using a carbine. If I can knock someone down with a carbine, I can kill them with the carbine, no reason to poison them with a slower DPS poison attack.
Jun Horde, Master Dr/Master CM
"Right now, on azahi there it takes 2-3 applications to cure my level C mind poison...that means u are going to be taking both mind damage from the poison and mind damage from curing urself....if u would like to test this out, please contact me on ahazi and we can test this out...2-3 applications to cure a mind poison means 20-30 secs to do it since self stiming is 10s. hence u will 1) cure poison 2) take the first tick of the mind damage 3)cure poison again 4) take the 2nd tick 5) cure poison again finally curing it"
With Cure Poison Pack C i have never (yep thats right Never) failed to cure a poison dot in one application on either myself or my group. We have had numerous (we are talking about at least 20+ encounters with opposite Combat Medics) . If you find this hard to believe ask Miyuki. We had a rather fun battle that waged back and forth for several minutes. He would poison me, i would cure it and poison him, and he would cure it (My poison packs are 285). Im not sure how you get the information that it takes 2 - 3 applications of cures.
"this doesnt even account for the fact that after ur first application of the curepoison i will most likely poison u again..."
Feel free as it takes less mind to cure poison than to apply it..
"Actually I dont understand how as a doctor u dont see how overpowered mind damage is...H and A poison and disease are easily counteracted...mind poison and disease is not...Doctor cure packs are totally unpowered compared to CM dots and while H and A poisons can be remedied...Mind poison will almost always incap you..."
On PVE only i say Mind damage is badly inplemented..On PVP comparable to other classes it isnt. Mind poison and disease is EASILY counteracted. For example a lower combat medic attacked myself and 1 other person hoping to take us out with mind poison. It was a simple matter of 2 quick cures(myself first of course) a counter application and bam down he goes...Why? Becuase he was not expecting another combat medic and apparently didnt have any cures...
What does this boil down to? Poor planning by not having all the tools you need to do the job. Fail to plan...plan to fail.. But saying Mind poison is overpowering just because "Certain" people cant counteract the effects is just wrong IMO. I Said it before and ill say it again. If they cant counteract the effects then they best learn the necessary skills to do so, or group with someone who can.
PS: Anytime you feel like testing this feel free to contact me.
Snobo Feari
Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic
Ahazi
K snobo..lets test tonight?
ill send u a tell when i get home tonight...
btw are u using advanced components in ur cure packs?
More defense bonus is needed now - much more
fix the adv resilience component load to the schematic - this is the one who can increads potency!!
plz visit and fill this thread in the discussion forum with good thoughts, cause no dev will ever read here in our forums
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=416688
What does this boil down to? Poor planning by not having all the tools you need to do the job. Fail to plan...plan to fail.. But saying Mind poison is overpowering just because "Certain" people cant counteract the effects is just wrong IMO. I Said it before and ill say it again. If they cant counteract the effects then they best learn the necessary skills to do so, or group with someone who can.
Great words!
Does anyone of you have the same problem after the AT ST Bleeding Fix? You can't poison an AT ST anyomore - ok. a decision of the devs.
But now i get a "you cannot poison this" message sometimes, when i try to poison an normal CH pet in a fight?! Anyone else has this problem?
If I put all my experimentation points into range (exp charges technically), I get poison that I can throw 90m (at 170 per tick). That makes for a slow kill, but they have to work hard to catch up with me, giving me a tactical advantage. If I put all my experimentation points into effectiveness, I get poison that hits for 540/tick at 66m. That's a 2 tick kill on almost anyone, so even if they incap me fast after application they almost never get close enough to DB before they are incapped. I wake up first and win the battle. Finally, the LOS requirement only applies to the primary target. If I position myself around a corner from a group of enemies, I need only apply area poison to the first one around the corner to hit the rest before they have LOS.
Additional tactics from a secondary profession make poison even more effective. I am a smuggler, so I can start with a panic shot, toss an area poison (32m radius, 64m range, 273/tick), and run away without taking a single hit. I've taken out huge groups this way. I can also run suicide missions by feigning death before I toss the poison. I just wait until they're incapped to stand up. With these tactics, CM's will be the only combat prof. other than BH (w/ fire knockdown) that will still be effective after the knockdown nerf.
In short, don't keep calling for the devs to make a balance pass on CM. It draws attention away from the much needed bug fixes, and it might end up getting our PvP damage reduced by 75% (and none of us want that).
anyone here have any propoed fixes rather than complaints??
Its very easy to sit on the sidelines and say, "such and such is unfair, it needs to be fixed."
The real challenge is stepping up to the plate and making a suggestion, risking a bad idea.
Umm fix.. allow combat medics to use non LoS attacks.. Outdoors only.. and have 1/2 damage/duration on poisons using this non los.
Poisons:
Health/action poison .. perhaps make poison that healing the targeted (poisoned) pool isn't possible with effects of disease on: You might think this is overkill/over powered. However it's no worse than me using mind poison now.. (it can't be healed either) and might <gasp> gimmie a reason to use a poison without LoS as a tactical manuver vs a 1 shot kill one (a 1/2 effect action poison where you can't heal action would be great considering I'm a carbineer)
Disease: Too many.. too useless.
Take all the diseases.. make 3 disease types.
Health, Action.. and mind.
Health disease has a random chance of damaging health, str or con per tick.
... However.. IF for some reason said target dies before having it cured or wearing off.. it does the entire sum of its wounds instantly.
This might sound dirastic. .but it's the only foreseeable work around to people suiciding into mobs.. or dueling friends and getting them to death blow them to 'avoid' wounds.
Correction to my avoid statement talking about poisons. .I meant healing a pool that's poisoned isn't possible while the targeted pool has a poison effect on it..
My bad.. head thinking one way.. fingers typeing another 
If your supporting a balanced group then you enhance their abilities (the doctor should be dealing with any dot's and resucitating, you can be healing the other stuff). If the situation arises though, unlike a doctor, CM have powerfull offence. Its a pretty **edit** good balance of offence and support especialy when you consider the huge DPS that can be obtained with (unhealable) AoE dots.
The CM implementation reminds me of the Mentalist class in DAoC - its main offence is an AoE DoT but it has some weak heals and buffs too. In big battles Mentalists can (easily) devastate an entire raid if they pick thier moment. Battles for bases will provide very similar opportunities and I expect they will become centre points for a lot of PvP quite soon.