Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic Reasons for their recent persecution
vortexala wrote:
Because we're the only profession where PvE damage is so low as to be laughable? Because we're the only profession that has to make it's own weapons? Because the real reason people complain is not the power of the poison but the fact it hits the unhealable mind?
The point is that you cannot reduce something that is rediculously low my 75% or someone with a buff would be unaffected by a 20dps weapon. What we are saying is, increase our PvE damage to something realistic and then reduce us by 75%. We understand that PvP has nothing to do with PvE, but it does when you say reduce damage or one for the other. Does that make sense? And we cannot stack DoT's. We can put one on each of your stats, but that is not truely stacking.
Shidevie wrote:
vortexala wrote:
Because we're the only profession where PvE damage is so low as to be laughable? Because we're the only profession that has to make it's own weapons? Because the real reason people complain is not the power of the poison but the fact it hits the unhealable mind?
I've been a bit harsh on you and I applogize for that. But I need to point this out, PvE is PvE not PvP. Mind damage is what people are complaining about, yes. But as Stixum asked why no 75% reduction in PvP? Crafting your own weapons is like saying Weaponsmiths should be able to do full damage with their own weapons, or armorsmiths should resist all damage they take becaus they make their own armor. See where I'm coming from? Your argument is fundamentally flawed, and the only actualy reason I have seen for the no 75% PvP reduction is beacuse the Dev's said so. I agree that your PvE damage needs a boost, that's no secret, but when it comes to PvP that's a totally different story and a whole different can of worms. Currently, as you know, your class is the only one that can still stack DoT's, and still does full PvP damage. I don't think people would be complaining much if there was a way to heal mind other then CM's.
A Weaponsmith is a crafting profession. It's very nature is to make weapons for others to use. Every other combat profession obtains their weapons from a Weaponsmith. Combat Medics must make their own.
A pistoleer does not have to go out, harvest their own resources and then spend time crafting their weapons. A pistoleer does not have to run harvesters, factories, or anything of the sort. They simply buy a pistol from a weaponsmith and go on about their business. The weaponsmith is the one who runs the harvesters, factories, and spends time creating the pistols. That is the weaponsmith profession.
In the pistoleer/weaponsmith example, both parties get a plus from the system. The weaponsmith gets creds from the pistoleer to offset the cost of production and resource gathering, the pistoleer gets a good weapon he can use to destory missions and make creds without wasting time searching for resources. It's a win/win for both since both are doing what they enjoy.
A combat medic, however, is an almagamation of the two. A combat medic must, by the very nature of the profession(and in order to Master), craft their own weapons. They must obtain their own resources for these weapons, some of which are rare spawns. And these Weapons are highly consumable, no other profession must replace their weapon after every other lair or several times during a PvP engagement. And these Weapons have such a small market that the payoff to selling them isn't nearly as cost off-setting as it is for the weaponsmith. And the fact that our weapons aren't supposed to incap means that as a pure profession there is no chance to finish off a lair for the creds.
So yes, the weaponcrafting argument is valid. The minute the pistoleer begins crafting their own weapons as part of their profession is the only time the argument is invalidated.
I understand that your dot's suck in PvE, The point I have been trying to make, along with many other people is the PvP power of a MCM is almost on the extreem side. Yes it takes 10 seconds for the first tick to hit, but that firsttick & all the following ticks are currently unhealable which is where the cries for nerfs are coming from. If what Zarlor postedin the FAQ is true and they put mind heals back in game then this will be a moot point, but until then the CM system is almost broken in PvP.
Texxie I see where your coming from, but I still think your using the crafting justification as a scapegoat for the reason why there is no 75% PvP reduction. Doc's craft their own stuff also and our buffs are more random then the weather in Alaska, your point is moot. The resource & crafting stance is really not a good one to take, it has more flaws in it then Bill Clintons impeachment testimony. So in short, what does crafting your own weapons have to do with no 75% PvP damage reduction?
Shidevie wrote:
Texxie I see where your coming from, but I still think your using the crafting justification as a scapegoat for the reason why there is no 75% PvP reduction. Doc's craft their own stuff also and our buffs are more random then the weather in Alaska, your point is moot. The resource & crafting stance is really not a good one to take, it has more flaws in it then Bill Clintons impeachment testimony. So in short, what does crafting your own weapons have to do with no 75% PvP damage reduction?
I am not using the crafting angle as a scapegoat. It's not even the main reason we shouldn't be summarily sacrificed to the 75% God of PvP Reduction.
I simply used it as one of the many examples put forth before regarding why we don't need a nerf. You went into detail on that particular subject so I clarified it for you. It is merely an example of the time and credit consuming nature of our weaponry, a hinderance which no other profession has placed upon them. And, for that great of an investment, a CM is given sub-par damage dealing weaponry. No other profession has the time investment built in the way we do for such a low return. Lowering it further would make it near useless, the way it is currently in PvE. Is this the best of arguments? Nope. But it's still a valid one.
Why did the Devs never implement the damage reduction for CMs in the first place? Only they can tell you. But If you really want to get into it, I'll gladly give my opinion.
All other things aside(bugs, issues, loot drops, etc), our damage output is incomplete honesty low when you compare the damage dealt by a single-target poison to the damage dealt by a 'normal' weapon in PvP. When you use the AoE poisons to compare against normal weapons, then and only then, does the damage output seem remotely even by comparison to a single normal weapon in PvP.
If we were to be hit, now, with the PvP reductionCMs would truly become near useless as a combat profession. Our poisons wouldn't need resistances against them to nullify their effect.A good set of buffs(medical, performance or otherwise)would negate their damage using natural stat regeneration alone. And in the case of health or action poison the damage would simply be stimmed away with less effort then it takes to breath. Which is exactly whyyou don't see Health and/or Action poison as frequently, if at all, as Mind Poison.It's counter is something that is easily obtained by use of an item anyone with Novice Medic can weild, the Stim-B.
In the end, it all boils down to one thing...the Mind Bar. If Mind were as easily healed(of damage) as Health and Action currently are, there would be little to no nerf cries at all. No one would be here asking for a nerf or a 75% reduction because no one would truly see a Combat Medic as the larger-than-life threat they currently paint us as. They'd simply find ways around us as they have with other professions...which, quite honestly, is how it should be.
Also, as it stands now, the only place most CMs feel useful in a combat role is in PvP. In PvE situations they are relegated to 'stim tossers'. Not all of us want to simply be that stim tosser sowe focus upon the one combat situation where we can make a difference, PvP. Boostour damage output by at least 3x and then implement the75% damage reduction in PvP and I'll be fine with that. We'd have a better combat role in PvE while still maintaining a respectable combat role in PvP.
It'd be one way to pass the time until the Combat Revamp is done...
1v1a combat medic is weak. We all know that.
Get a large group trying to take down base with a couple of combat medics on the other side and you're toast. You can't kill a CM fast enough to prevent you from getting poisoned.
This is basically how combat works in a group. You kill/incappthe CM and watch your groups mind tick away while fighting with the others in his group. Being a doctor, you hurredly cure yourself and move on to the next poisoned/diseased guy in your group. BAM! Another CM hits you with poison and 3+ more of your buddies. He gets incapped/DBed and you go back to curing yourself and your group during the heat of battle. You get yourself cured and BAM!. The another CM hits you and 3+ more of your buddies with poison. Your groupkills/incapps him. Now a bunch of your teammates are watching their HAM tick away after you killed/incapped the enemy doing all the DOTs. You get 1/2 of them healed and the original CM is back from cloning/incapped and hitting you again and the whole thing repeats as your mind ticks away. (Did I mention that this can also all happen while your 2 stories underground in a base and the CMs are all outside the base?)
In 5 secs a CM can dish out enough poison to keep a doctor busy healing it for another minute. It doesn't work out evenly. One CM=5+ Docs. Sure, you can kill the CM before he gets you initially, but in any battle that lasts more than a minute the CM is king. And most all group PvP lasts for more than one minute, especially base take-downs.
Sure, the poison doesn't actually kill but any person in your group with 1 mind is basically dead anyway, they're just a liability at that point.
Thanks Dog - first constructive post I've seen.
I'd love to know what would happen if people gained the ability to resist poison/disease (beyond +25 clothing).