Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic Reasons for their recent persecution
Xero, you're a good PvPer and i can't believe that you're actually crying nerf on CM, but oh well, here i go (again).
To all of your arguments that CM's do to much damage with their AoE attacks consider a couple of things:
1) Poisons and diseases have to be crafted by a combat medic, and to get anything decent it takes lots of high-quality resources, not to mention how we haven't had decent spawns of the adv.power sub-comps on kauri in a good 2-3 months, making it extremely difficult to make a "good" poison or disease. think about how a poison only has somewhere in the 20-30 use range, while your t21 will be able to fire literally hundreds(if not 1000+) times in PvP before it is decayed beyond the point of no return, and if you get it repaired it can last 2-3 times as long easily. also, while a Weaponsmith is a crafting profession and they do nothing but crafting, the CM must craft their own weapons in order to have any abilities in combat, and because CM's are often involved in combat, they do not have the time (or money) to spend finding and aquiring the resources that they need.
2) ANY good doc can heal a poison with little difficulty, and an AoE poison takes little while longer. SO many times have i poisoned or diseased rebels in a city, even ones that are in a close group, and by the time i come back from cloning, i can diagnose EVERY person on the enemy side and not see one poisoned. i've seen too many times where i feel i just wasted a good poison due to the work of a decent doctor. AoE in this way is no problem at all for a semi-prepared group with a doctor.
3) the poison resist tapes and foods that exist provide excellent defense to poisons and diseases. If you have even a 20 -22% resist food, the chance that the CM will hit you is reduced by nearly 1/4 for any non-adv laced potion (see above regarding the Adv comps...). stack a skill tape or two and the chance that a CM will hit you is practically next to none. Think about how often younormallyhit any other PvPer as a master rifleman. now think if you only were able to hit that person 75-80% of the time with all your accurracy mods, would you be mad missing 1 in 4 shots? even without excellent accuracy mods i still can hit 95% of people while running-and i'm barely a pistoleer.
so in short think about if you had to craft your own rifle and take care to make sure it would hit a decent amount of the time and with decent damage and range, and you could only use that a few times.
Grozzer
DSB
Master Combat Medic
"Health, Action, or Mind, it's still your ass..."
-Adopted Combat Medic Motto
Grozurr wrote:
Xero, you're a good PvPer and i can't believe that you're actually crying nerf on CM, but oh well, here i go (again).
To all of your arguments that CM's do to much damage with their AoE attacks consider a couple of things:
1) Poisons and diseases have to be crafted by a combat medic, and to get anything decent it takes lots of high-quality resources, not to mention how we haven't had decent spawns of the adv.power sub-comps on kauri in a good 2-3 months, making it extremely difficult to make a "good" poison or disease. think about how a poison only has somewhere in the 20-30 use range, while your t21 will be able to fire literally hundreds(if not 1000+) times in PvP before it is decayed beyond the point of no return, and if you get it repaired it can last 2-3 times as long easily. also, while a Weaponsmith is a crafting profession and they do nothing but crafting, the CM must craft their own weapons in order to have any abilities in combat, and because CM's are often involved in combat, they do not have the time (or money) to spend finding and aquiring the resources that they need.
2) ANY good doc can heal a poison with little difficulty, and an AoE poison takes little while longer. SO many times have i poisoned or diseased rebels in a city, even ones that are in a close group, and by the time i come back from cloning, i can diagnose EVERY person on the enemy side and not see one poisoned. i've seen too many times where i feel i just wasted a good poison due to the work of a decent doctor. AoE in this way is no problem at all for a semi-prepared group with a doctor.
3) the poison resist tapes and foods that exist provide excellent defense to poisons and diseases. If you have even a 20 -22% resist food, the chance that the CM will hit you is reduced by nearly 1/4 for any non-adv laced potion (see above regarding the Adv comps...). stack a skill tape or two and the chance that a CM will hit you is practically next to none. Think about how often younormallyhit any other PvPer as a master rifleman. now think if you only were able to hit that person 75-80% of the time with all your accurracy mods, would you be mad missing 1 in 4 shots? even without excellent accuracy mods i still can hit 95% of people while running-and i'm barely a pistoleer.
so in short think about if you had to craft your own rifle and take care to make sure it would hit a decent amount of the time and with decent damage and range, and you could only use that a few times.
Grozzer
DSB
Master Combat Medic
"Health, Action, or Mind, it's still your ass..."
-Adopted Combat Medic Motto
Shidevie wrote:
To answer your points.
1) Every class depends on quality resources, this should not even be considered as a justification to the power of CM DoT's in PvP. Doc's require rare resources also, last spawn of Class 4 petro on my server had a OQ of 81, that was the 4th spawn of Class 4 since the game went live, and the last spawn of Dolovite Iron had a OQ of 223 and UT of 822 also the 4th spawn since the server went live.
Every profession relies on resources to one extent or another, but NO other profession is forced to use those resources to craft their own weapons. Weapons which require rare resources and are highly consumable. The minute that every other combat related profession has to craft their own weapons will be the exact minute that the resource requirement argument no longer becomes valid. Until that time it stands, wether or not you agree with it.
2) Doc's can cure DoT's yes, but when it hits 15 people in a battle 10 of them will be dead or incap before you can get to them. This is due in part to the combat and also the fact that the Doc cant instantly use cure.
Lack of Doctor curative abilities is an issue within the Doctor profession, not a problem for the Combat Medics. Rally for better curative abilites, petition for innoculations or resistance timers or any other of the multitude of ideas that have been brought forth here and on the Doc forums. Simply because one profession can't keep up with another is not a reason for a nerf. Combat Medics can't keep up with Pistoleers for damage output, should they then be nerfed?
3) The tapes and foods are still rare and until people actually take up Bio Engeneer and Chef again will be extreemly rare. At least with EverQuest people could build up their static resists and have a fighting chance against stuff, here in SWG there is little to no chance that people will resist DoT's. As it is right now the mitigation in armor doesn't do anything for resisting CM DoT's. Theoretically a piece of Adv Comp with 60% base resists should be able to fully resist a CM DoT 60% of the time. That's 6 out of 10 DoT's they should resist. Unfortunatly they didn't take that approach to resists with SWG, so the resists on armor are useless against CM DoT's.
The fact there are few BEs and Chefs in-game is not a reason to nerf combat medics. The fact that SEAs are not readily available to everyone is not a reason to nerf combat medics. Combat Medics have no control over the player populations of other profession or the availability of loot drops.
The fact is that there are counters out there, and they will become readily available once more people realize and utilize those counters. When eyeshot andunarmedheadhit and all the other mind specific attacks became more widely used, folks found ways around them. Just as they will find ways around CMMind Poison/Disease(and lets be honest here, that's the only thing anyone really complains about). In fact, lots of folks already have found their counters to CM...
I think that innoculoations would be a great addition to the doctor profession. The strength of the innoculation could depend on the materials used and the type of pack crafted, it can also serve asanother possible money-maker for doctors "Innoculations along with those buffs, sir?"
PaladinCleric wrote:
I think that innoculoations would be a great addition to the doctor profession. The strength of the innoculation could depend on the materials used and the type of pack crafted, it can also serve asanother possible money-maker for doctors "Innoculations along with those buffs, sir?"
As if Doctors need more ways to make money? All cures and if any innoculations should require a CM component so we can re-establish some interdependancy.
PaladinCleric wrote:
Sorry, please elaborate. What exactly do you mean by "reestablishing interdependency" When where these two proffesions dependent on each other in the first place? That's just the point, there never was any dependancy of Docs for CMs. Cms have always had to become dependant on Docs for subcomponents in their ranged and area stims.At this point CMs are still dependant on Docs for those same subcomponents.
And why should they be now?Because too many players cry about real world this and real world that. Do you know who makes vaccines? Do you know how Antivenin for snake bites are made? They milk the venom from that type of snake and reverse engineer a cure. So explain to me why a medical profession that has no idea how to cause poison should be able to bypass "milking the snake" for a cure or a vaccine?
When you said that doctors make enough money right now, I assume you are joking, right? No I am not. I used to be a MD/MCM for a long time. I can tell you right now in that timethe only thing that made me able to support myself as a CM was my Doctor Crafting.
I ca safely say that any money I make as a doctor vanishes within an hour. Doctors need a constant supply of meds, and that is not a cheap supply. CMs need a constant supply of resources as well yet we don't have a viable method of income from this Elite profession. I see tons of players lining up for buffs with Docs making 10k per round of buffs, using 6 buff packs that cost them a total of 60k to purchase. At 27 charges per pack that Doctor just banked 210k. Even after spending a little in overhead like BE enhanced clothes, 110+ droid, food and spice to keep the buffing nonstop, that Doctor is still making hand over fist.
Even if you were to buy all your resources at 15cpu to make an Enhance Health D, you are still only spending at most 2.k to make that pack. Now at this point you can sell the pack for 8-10k each or you can make a run of different packs for each stat and sell buffs. That would net you 255k profit.
Bring in the Combat Medic...you honestly think players are going to pay for a CM to disease their stats to hell? Unless they are a hologrinder maybe, but that is far and few between. Don't tell me Docs are poor because I know well the average CM doesn't stand a chance income-wise by just relying on CM.
Gnuut is correct in that any innoculations SHOULD require CM components. I'd even go so far as to say that current cures should require at least one CM crafted component. CM stims are dependent upon Doctor Crafted components in order to be the best they can be, so there should also be a dependency upon CMs for components by Docs.
And Ypianna, mind is the determining factor. It's also the basis for all nerf cries against the Combat Medic Profession. With the Combat Revamp, hopefully we'll see it's reimplementation...
vortexala wrote:
Shidevie wrote:
To answer your points.
1) Every class depends on quality resources, this should not even be considered as a justification to the power of CM DoT's in PvP. Doc's require rare resources also, last spawn of Class 4 petro on my server had a OQ of 81, that was the 4th spawn of Class 4 since the game went live, and the last spawn of Dolovite Iron had a OQ of 223 and UT of 822 also the 4th spawn since the server went live.
Every profession relies on resources to one extent or another, but NO other profession is forced to use those resources to craft their own weapons. Weapons which require rare resources and are highly consumable. The minute that every other combat related profession has to craft their own weapons will be the exact minute that the resource requirement argument no longer becomes valid. Until that time it stands, wether or not you agree with it.
2) Doc's can cure DoT's yes, but when it hits 15 people in a battle 10 of them will be dead or incap before you can get to them. This is due in part to the combat and also the fact that the Doc cant instantly use cure.
Lack of Doctor curative abilities is an issue within the Doctor profession, not a problem for the Combat Medics. Rally for better curative abilites, petition for innoculations or resistance timers or any other of the multitude of ideas that have been brought forth here and on the Doc forums. Simply because one profession can't keep up with another is not a reason for a nerf. Combat Medics can't keep up with Pistoleers for damage output, should they then be nerfed?
3) The tapes and foods are still rare and until people actually take up Bio Engeneer and Chef again will be extreemly rare. At least with EverQuest people could build up their static resists and have a fighting chance against stuff, here in SWG there is little to no chance that people will resist DoT's. As it is right now the mitigation in armor doesn't do anything for resisting CM DoT's. Theoretically a piece of Adv Comp with 60% base resists should be able to fully resist a CM DoT 60% of the time. That's 6 out of 10 DoT's they should resist. Unfortunatly they didn't take that approach to resists with SWG, so the resists on armor are useless against CM DoT's.
The fact there are few BEs and Chefs in-game is not a reason to nerf combat medics. The fact that SEAs are not readily available to everyone is not a reason to nerf combat medics. Combat Medics have no control over the player populations of other profession or the availability of loot drops.
The fact is that there are counters out there, and they will become readily available once more people realize and utilize those counters. When eyeshot andunarmedheadhit and all the other mind specific attacks became more widely used, folks found ways around them. Just as they will find ways around CMMind Poison/Disease(and lets be honest here, that's the only thing anyone really complains about). In fact, lots of folks already have found their counters to CM...
How did you manage to get picked at the correspondant? How hard is it to figure out that CM's are overpowered in PvP, and now with the 800-1000 a tick DoT's (thanks Geo Cave QA team) your PvP power is out of control. The PvP power in your DoT's is insaine and when there is NO innate defense against it your argument looses merit. The 22% resist food you mentioned is a joke, that's 22 out of 100 DoT's someone will avoid. Again, how hard is it to hammer it through your skull that CM's are overpowered in PvP? What's wrong with having the 75% PvP damage cap like every other class? What makes you special?
The resource argument for vallidating the potency of your DoT's is not a valid argument. Why you can even think that's possible is beyond me.
The curative aspect of Docs is for the Doc forum, but seeing as it was mentioned here as a defense for CM DoT's then I'll stand by that.
The BE's and Chef issue is minute, until they can make 100% resist foods the current status of the CM is beyond overpowered.
I didn't want to single you out Texxie, but your not doing any justice to the CM's & the correspondant program. I know your new and stepping into a hellfire. Simple fix is get the 75% PvP cap in and remove stacking same kind of DoT's (AE & Single Target) just like they did with Commandos and make everyone happy, Somone on the Dev team must have a thing for CM's, your DoT's have managed to escape 2 nerfs, the 75% PvP reduction and the stacking of the same type like the Commando Flame DoT's.
You cannot reduce the damage by 75% from the start. It would mean that with a half-assed dancer buff you could regenerate faster that the damage would tick. Look around at some of the other nerf crying posts I don't feel like requoting all that was said on that subject.
When are you going to get it into YOUR skull that it is not the problem of the CM profession. We are right and maybe underpowered. That's right, underpowered. If you gave us AOE cures wouldn't that help deal with the AOE damage. Or maybe just add a few things to other classes to help combat us. If they add rebreathers, AOE cures and fix some of the damn bugs, it would reduce the CM power in a productive way by balance and not f'ing nerfs. Screw nerfs, just fix other classes to create balance.
Finally, if you don't know... don't speak!