Combat Medic Archive

Thread: 72 and 8

Ipseck
Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:19 am
#27

ok, but don't you see having nearly the offensive output of an elite combat profession and also heal at range as a balance issue? Or do you feel the skill points invested justify this type of power?

And about the smuggler thing, you pretty well hit the nail on the head with your first statement.. I was getting at the fact that we are hybrid professions and the number of schematics one has doesn't neccessarily determine the role one plays in the game.

Message Edited by Ipseck on 09-08-2004 11:24 AM





7Ipsecki Tunnel8
eMaster Smuggler - "Deliverer of goods"e
N"Captain Moody"N
Gnuut
Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:28 pm
#28





Ipseck wrote:I was getting at the fact that we are hybrid professions and the number of schematics one has doesn't neccessarily determine the role one plays in the game.




Neither does the title. When was the last time you actually smuggled anything?






Grau'din
Elder Combat Medic
Magnumus Mysterium MYST
I am not a support class.
I am a chemical warfare expert.
I am a bio-warrior.
I am a zerg-stopper.
I am a Master CM. Run for your life....

vortexala
Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:34 am
#29








Ipseck wrote:
ok, but don't you see having nearly the offensive output of an elite combat profession and also heal at range as a balance issue? Or do you feel the skill points invested justify this type of power?


Wait...what? We have nearly the offensive output of Elite Combat Professions? This is news to me. In the time it takes for one application of any of our offensive meds, it can be completely negated with a single cure. And that's if it gets past the resistance buffs. And even then, the dps is lower then other 'elite combat professions'.

And about the smuggler thing, you pretty well hit the nail on the head with your first statement.. I was getting at the fact that we are hybrid professions and the number of schematics one has doesn't neccessarily determine the role one plays in the game.


Nor does what others say about us determine what role we have. We are a hybrid profession as well. Half Healing, Half Combat. Which of the two we focus on is our choice.


Sick of people labeling us...










~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Happymob
Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:57 am
#30






Ipseck wrote:

And about the smuggler thing, you pretty well hit the nail on the head with your first statement.. I was getting at the fact that we are hybrid professions and the number of schematics one has doesn't neccessarily determine the role one plays in the game.



There is a major difference between combat medic and smuggler (or doctor for that matter). Smuggler has 4 very distinct set of abilities (combat skills, slicing, spice crafitng, and faction point brokering). Three of these activities are non-combat related.


Combat medics have no non-combat abilities at all. No buffing. No wound healing (well, we technically have medic level wound healing but that's "paid for" with medic skill points). Nothing we can craft that anyone will buy except for another combat medic. Combat medics may be a "hybrid" class, but we are 100% combat, just like commando.


I'm not making any claim how this combat ability should be distributed between offense or defense, but comparing us to smugglers makes it sound like we are something other than a pure combat profession, which is clearly not the case.




Imadoh and Ikiecobi
Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo
NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076


Ternque01
Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
#31






Happymob wrote:





Ipseck wrote:

And about the smuggler thing, you pretty well hit the nail on the head with your first statement.. I was getting at the fact that we are hybrid professions and the number of schematics one has doesn't neccessarily determine the role one plays in the game.



There is a major difference between combat medic and smuggler (or doctor for that matter). Smuggler has 4 very distinct set of abilities (combat skills, slicing, spice crafitng, and faction point brokering). Three of these activities are non-combat related.


Combat medics have no non-combat abilities at all. No buffing. No wound healing (well, we technically have medic level wound healing but that's "paid for" with medic skill points). Nothing we can craft that anyone will buy except for another combat medic. Combat medics may be a "hybrid" class, but we are 100% combat, just like commando.


I'm not making any claim how this combat ability should be distributed between offense or defense, but comparing us to smugglers makes it sound like we are something other than a pure combat profession, which is clearly not the case.







In your middle paragraph you refer to it as a "hybrid" class, yet in your final paragraph you say that it isn't anything but a pure combat class.


If you are suggesting that a profession can be both hybrid and pure combat, then please clear the discrepancy between what you think most of us on this forum call classes that do exclusively combat "pure combat classes" and those professions which have some combat, some crafting, some healing, or some other unique skill in addition "hybrid classes"


I see a large gaping whole in your argument where you consider smugglers a hybrid and CM's a pure combat class. You take the CM skills and say they directly relate to combat, but completely fail to address smuggler in the same way. Slices and spices are strongly tied to combat. Spices serve most as temporary healing products in a fight. Slicing boosts a combat teams damage output over time during a battle. The faction perks in Underworld contribute directly to how much faction a smuggler looses on death and directly in the purchase of faction pets like ATST. You define combat skills as anything which can be used directly in combat. Spices, slicing, and faction perks are directly used in combat.


You craft items that are used directly during combat times.... smugglers do exactly the same. Even your own correspondent calls CM a hybrid profession a few posts up from mine. By using your definition, smugglers are a pure combat class. So you see why I think your defining CM as a "pure combat class" is weak.


Smugglers.. CM's... are hybrid professions by the terms the vast majority of these forums use.






Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
SolSpur
Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:32 pm
#32

Its a proven fact, non cms who troll the forums have no clue what this profession is about or the working behind it. And so I make you (the trolls) an offer.

Send me a private message and create a character on the wanderhome server. I will help you grind cm by paying for tumblers and grinding resources. Become the profession you have so much hatred for. Only then will you realize the truth about cms. I'm not doing this to prove you wrong but to show you the other side of cm, the side you refuse to see.



12 point AS, FS crafter, RIS Certified - active
12 point CM and FS crafter- retired
Ipseck
Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:51 pm
#33

1 vs 1, Pure MCM vs Pure ANY other Combat Profession, CM will lose. Always.

You can't stack a poison when you're dead.

In PvE, our poison/disease damage sees NO increase over PvP. Unlike other professions, our damage in one is the EXACT SAME as the damage in the other. With all PvE content below Krayt Level, if we were to attack a MOB with our poisons at the same time any other profession attacked it, the MOB would die from their attacks long before our poisons/diseases ever ticked. I've seen it happen countless times.

I didn't say 1 vs 1 in pure combat. I was comparing damage output and you haven't said anything to refute that. Even if you die, your weapons go on still doing damage. By contrast, your damage output has NO REDUCTION in pvp. My damage doesn't get upped in pve, it gets lowered in pvp. Nice how you want to turn that around though.

That's because you have no idea what a CM is and can do. You claim our DPS is on par with other professions, which is completely and utterly wrong.

And yes, we ARE a hyrbrid profession. Combat/Healing. Does that make us pure support? No. Does that make us pure combat? No. It makes us a Hybrid Combat/Healing profession. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do have an idea of what CM's can do. You have yet to refute that a CM can crank out the same DPS as an elite combat profession with a stacked poison and disease. All you could come back with was 'but we'd be dead by then'. Heck, CM's are one of the biggest helpers in high end pve (elders and krayts). And thanks for agreeing with the semantics of a hybrid profession (again).

And I wasn't aware that debating a different point of view backed, up with thought-out arguments qualified as trolling.





7Ipsecki Tunnel8
eMaster Smuggler - "Deliverer of goods"e
N"Captain Moody"N
Ipseck
Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:00 pm
#34

let me give you an example of the dps stuff.

Single poison: 400 str
Single disease: 200 str

ticking every 5-7 seconds on the same pool. that comes out to a guaranteed 600 dmg every 5-7 seconds.

pistoleer with a 2.2 200 dmg speed pistol shooting stopping shot every 2 seconds at around 600-800 dmg if and when it hits. The pistoleer has to make to hit roll, which is severly hampered if said character is moving (which is what ranged players do... kite). By the time you factor in the to-hit modifier and the targets armor, the DPS comes out to be about the same.





7Ipsecki Tunnel8
eMaster Smuggler - "Deliverer of goods"e
N"Captain Moody"N
Pahdbacca
Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:33 pm
#35

Every ten seconds troll


10 seconds.


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.


Glad to see you know so much about the profession



-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
SolSpur
Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:38 pm
#36

let me give you an example of the dps stuff.

Single poison: 400 str
Single disease: 200 str

ticking every 5-7 seconds on the same pool. that comes out to a guaranteed 600 dmg every 5-7 seconds.

pistoleer with a 2.2 200 dmg speed pistol shooting stopping shot every 2 seconds at around 600-800 dmg if and when it hits. The pistoleer has to make to hit roll, which is severly hampered if said character is moving (which is what ranged players do... kite). By the time you factor in the to-hit modifier and the targets armor, the DPS comes out to be about the same.

Just a few things wrong in your calculations.
Single poison 400 effectivness is made with spider venom. Not everyone has these, the same as not every pistoleer has an uber kryate weapon.
Single disease 200 effectivness again made with venom.
Ticking 5 - 7 seconds is again false. Try 10 for the poison and every 40 for the disease.
Guaranteed damage is again false add on area cures and innoculations.
Pistoleer - broke nuff said



12 point AS, FS crafter, RIS Certified - active
12 point CM and FS crafter- retired
Ipseck
Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:44 pm
#37

erm... venom poisons and diseases can approach 900+

I'm fairly certain you can get around 400/200 w/o the aid of venom. and i've seen poisons tick faster than ever 10 seconds with my own eyes.. I actually timed it while I was meditating it off. Same with diseases.

Just because I disagree with you does not make me a troll. You escusing the dps argument by saying pistoleer is broken, is a troll. Pistoleer isn't broken, it just has a few broken specials. Stopping shot isn't one of them.

I'm not proclaiming to be an expert on your profession, just commenting on the way I see things. I have a fair amnt of experience with just about everything combat related and feel I can make educated opinions on things. If I'm wrong, just say it and correct me. You don't have to be an ass about it.

Message Edited by Ipseck on 09-09-2004 02:55 PM





7Ipsecki Tunnel8
eMaster Smuggler - "Deliverer of goods"e
N"Captain Moody"N
vortexala
Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:00 pm
#38








Ipseck wrote:
let me give you an example of the dps stuff.

Single poison: 400 str
Single disease: 200 str

ticking every 5-7 seconds on the same pool. that comes out to a guaranteed 600 dmg every 5-7 seconds.


It is 10 seconds per poison tick. 40 seconds per disease tick. This is known fact. Because you saw it differently doesn't suddenly change it.

pistoleer with a 2.2 200 dmg speed pistol shooting stopping shot every 2 seconds at around 600-800 dmg if and when it hits. The pistoleer has to make to hit roll, which is severly hampered if said character is moving (which is what ranged players do... kite). By the time you factor in the to-hit modifier and the targets armor, the DPS comes out to be about the same.


Wrong.


Factor in the modified resist formula(our basic 'to-hit' roll), which is a guarantee of at least 5% chance to hit or miss. Factor in the fact that the BASELINE for '50/50' with thebasic resist formulais around 120ish Potency. In order to get our Potency to that level, or higher, we must sacrifice Effectiveness and Range. Factor in Poison/Disease Resist buffs, which require us to up the Potency even more, reducing our Range and Effectiveness even further.


Then you can factor in the rooting animation which will immobilize us for 4 seconds. Factor in the fact that we can only throw a poison or disease every 4 seconds.And that the poison takes 10 seconds to tick.And the fact that disease takes 40 seconds to tick.And the fact that we have no real range or melee defense skill mods nor any mitigation of any kind.


And then you can factor in the fact that, with a single click, a doctor can NULLIFY the effects in a large area BEFORE any damage ever occurs.


It all adds up.


Anyone who actually knows about CM knows that the DPS argument you're trying to put up is flawed.


I'm done with you. Good day.










~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Ipseck
Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:55 pm
#39

heh ok so I instead of comparing it to 3 or 4 pistoleer attacks compare it to 4 or 5. It still doesn't make that much of a difference once you factor in armor, to-hit, and mitigation. And even with a 50/50 chance to hit, with the effectiveness cranked all the way up, it takes you 2 throws to land something that continues to tick unabated for a very long time. And you keep bringing up the doctor factor every time, which is flawed. That'd be like riflemen saying that they're not overpowered because combat medics can heal mind. It doesn't make sense. And if the dps argument is so flawed, why is it people will 9 times out of 10 choose a combat medic over a pistoleer if they're going big pve hunting? It's not the healing - enough people have novice medic that it's usually not an issue.





7Ipsecki Tunnel8
eMaster Smuggler - "Deliverer of goods"e
N"Captain Moody"N
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